Micro / Compact

M1911 said:
There have been defensive shootings out past 25 yards. They aren't frequent, but they do happen. Maybe you can point shoot effectively at that range, but I certainly can't and certainly not with a Glock 26.
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I doubt I will be getting into a 25 yard shootout.

At 25 yards, most people can barely hit a target with a full size handgun while standing in a relaxed environment with no one shooting back.
 
ReluctantDecoy said:
Those are two separate things. A Glock 19, for instance, it technically a "compact", but it dwarfs true "micro compacts" in the same caliber, like a Sig P938 or Kahr PM9.

But that said, the smaller and lighter the gun, the snappier it will feel if comparing to larger guns of the same caliber. But if we're only talking 9mm, then it's not really a control issue as much as it is a comfort issue. Larger, heavier guns are just more pleasant to shoot if shooting for long sessions.

While barrel length does change hard ballistic numbers (longer the barrel, typically better performance), the increments are rather tiny between most pistol size classes, leading to rather insignificant changes for the most part. At least for real world confrontation distances with pistol calibers.

Personally speaking, the "smallest 9mm" race was kind of dumb. I started with guns right when that was revving up and fell for it myself. Everyone was racing to make the smallest 9mm, culminating with what is possibly the best reference size in the original P365. But if you look what has happened from there, Sig has slowly been going back the other direction as the audience that fell in love with the P365 realized they actually do want a larger gun. So it was then the XL, and now the Macro. And we've practically gone full circle back to "compact". Just a little thinner now.

So in my opinion, the best "smallest" gun is a P365X or XL. There are smaller micro compacts out there, but I feel the ergo trade off is not ideal.
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Thank you for the details!
 
Broc said:
I doubt I will be getting into a 25 yard shootout.

At 25 yards, most people can barely hit a target with a full size handgun while standing in a relaxed environment with no one shooting back.
Click to expand...
This is where a red dot makes a difference. None of that 10 moa crap either
 
using the Glock 26 as a comparison should be illegal

Everyone I know that owns a G26 has put it away in favor of a 43X, or they have sold them.

Don't get me wrong it was a great choice back when there were not a lot of choices for small 9's, and the fact it would take the G17 and 19 mags was a plus for people who carried them, but there are IMHO better small polymer pistols out there including other Glock offerings, the Sig P365 line, Kahr, et al
 
I'm a big fan of Canik. Their SC model is da bomb. Amazing trigger.

www.canikusa.com

TP9 Elite SC

TP9 Elite SC The TP9 Elite SC was developed to be the first sub-compact version of the TP Series of Pistols with its 3.60-inch barrel. The Elite SC offers the same features as the standard TP9 models, while designed to be snag-free for better concealment
www.canikusa.com www.canikusa.com
 
Broc said:
I doubt I will be getting into a 25 yard shootout.

At 25 yards, most people can barely hit a target with a full size handgun while standing in a relaxed environment with no one shooting back.
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I can easily hit the center of a torso at 25 yards and I’m not a great shot. I’ve done it in competition under stress.

I can’t use iron sights anymore. Maybe you can point shoot well enough under all foreseeable circumstances. I can’t. So I have a red dot.

I doubt I will be getting into any gunfight. But if I do, I want every advantage that I can get.
 
I got myself a Colt Mustang in .380 a Kimber micro in 9mm about a year ago and both get regular range time. Definatly not a target gun but accurate enough for "bad breath" distance contact. I keep a NAA mini (.22 Magnum) in a pocket holster because it fits in my shirt pocket.
 
appraiser said:
using the Glock 26 as a comparison should be illegal

Everyone I know that owns a G26 has put it away in favor of a 43X, or they have sold them.

Don't get me wrong it was a great choice back when there were not a lot of choices for small 9's, and the fact it would take the G17 and 19 mags was a plus for people who carried them, but there are IMHO better small polymer pistols out there including other Glock offerings, the Sig P365 line, Kahr, et al
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G26 is/was thick!

I still have mine but it’s been replaced due to the grip thickness.

It sits in my safe.
 
Mesatchornug said:
With the Sig? You can replace [just about] Every. Dang. Piece. You can 3D make new grip frames in any shape or material you can imagine, if you want. A sufficiently driven individual could make a 320 (or even a 365) that runs G19 mags...or Uzi mags, for that matter. That person could make a carbine stock, design/build a blowback upper, and have a PCC on a Sig FCU.
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I made my wife read this real s l o w, and recorded it with my iphone. Made her say Sig.. Efff.. See... Yeww twice.
 
chris_1001 said:
G26 is/was thick!

I still have mine but it’s been replaced due to the grip thickness.

It sits in my safe.
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I sold mine. The 26 is too thick to fit in my pocket and my Glock 43x conceals better in a belt holster and is easier for me to shoot.

If I was a cop carrying a 17 or 19, then a 26 as a backup gun makes sense because it can use the same magazines. But it doesn’t work for me. YMMV.
 
Broc said:
12 MOA is perfect for 25 yards.

Not joking, I thought it would be huge, until a NES member let me borrow his rifles during a SC match, it had a 12MOA dot. Perfect.
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I haven’t tried anything larger than 6 MOA, but given how small that appears, I don’t doubt that a larger dot would work well for handguns.
 
chris_1001 said:
G26 is/was thick!

I still have mine but it’s been replaced due to the grip thickness.

It sits in my safe.
Click to expand...
a lot of us put up with the crappy 2 fingered grip or put a Pierce extension on the mags, although in free states the +2 Glock mag extensions helped but at that point you might as well bite the proverbial bullet and carry a Glock 19

And you are correct, it is thick, where the 43X not only gives you a better grip (although guys with big hands will disagree with me) it is a slimmer package... not by much but enough top make you take notice.
 
richc said:
I'm a big fan of Canik. Their SC model is da bomb. Amazing trigger.

www.canikusa.com

TP9 Elite SC

TP9 Elite SC The TP9 Elite SC was developed to be the first sub-compact version of the TP Series of Pistols with its 3.60-inch barrel. The Elite SC offers the same features as the standard TP9 models, while designed to be snag-free for better concealment
www.canikusa.com www.canikusa.com
Click to expand...
This interests me. Everyone I know that owns one raves about their Canik, especially the trigger.
Almost identical demensions to the 365 XL
 
appraiser said:
And you are correct, it is thick, where the 43X not only gives you a better grip (although guys with big hands will disagree with me) it is a slimmer package... not by much but enough top make you take notice.
Click to expand...
I do find that the 43x moves around a bit in my hands. I wear a size large glove, but dont have big hands. Still, I find it easier to shoot than the 26. I do prefer to shoot the 19, but the 43x conceals easier for me.
 
Broc said:
12 MOA is perfect for 25 yards.

Not joking, I thought it would be huge, until a NES member let me borrow his rifles during a SC match, it had a 12MOA dot. Perfect.
Click to expand...
12MOA at 25 yards is [near enough to] 3". That's smaller than a fist. That's a fine size on a person sized target. As long as it's in the window, I bet you're never trying to find it.
 
I have the Glock 43 and the Kahr CM9. I pocket carry my CM9 all the time I guess the 43 is there if I can't carry the CM9. I shoot the CM9 better and actually like the Kahr trigger better than the Glock for carry purposes. To each their own though
 
M1911 said:
For those of us with old eyes who can't focus on sights easily, a red dot is a big help.
Click to expand...
My last range trip, I brought my 4"-686, and between the lighting and the yellow shooting glasses, I just could not make out the front sight.
I was mortified. This is the gun that has always been my lights out, if I had to make a shot, can hit it if I can see it, gun.
I switched glasses and was fine, but I'm going to be looking at a red dot for my carry guns.
Sucks getting old.
 
alan226 said:
No love for the Hellcat?

P.S. I own both...
Click to expand...
What is the trigger like?
I've read a number of write ups saying it's a great gun but doing a trigger upgrade is recommended.

- I have a sig p365xl with a factory rds and I put an m-carbo trigger spring in and took a pound off the trigger break.

- I also have a kimber mako r7 with a factory ct rds and that has a nice 4.5 lb factory trigger break already. I tend to shoot that one better than the sig, and so carry it more.
 

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