Kel Tec is making a 5.7x28 pistol that uses P90 mags

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Wait a few years and Ruger will copy it with significant improvements because their engineering team seems to like to do that.

It was also somehow be beautiful or absolutely hideous like someone did the technical drawings with a dull crayon, because Ruger also does this and can't seem to stop alternating between ugly ducklings and swans.
Yeah, I don't see Ruger designing anything around a P90 magazine, more like they'll come up with a 5.7 variant of the PC carbine that takes the same mags as the Ruger 57 just because a few fanboys will buy it, even tho at that point a budget AR would be a better choice.

I will admit the whole selling point to the 5.7 was the P90. If you were to take the 5.7 and slap it in an AR, the thing would have been a massive failure, so if Ruger is smart they won't make a PC in 5.7. If Ruger is gonna do anything they may as well copy Kel Tec and make a bullpup that uses the 57 mags because at least that would be a pretty small and light, yet superior rifle in 5.7 than that hideous P90 FN makes with the 16 inch barrel.
 

xjma99

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Even at MSRP, it is insanely, absurdly, ridiculously overpriced for what it is.
Prior to flugaloo pricing, anyone that considered buying anything in 5.7, priced out range ammo for it, and then still thought it was a good idea, don’t give a f*** about the msrp!! With flugaloo pricing in effect, OFMG.

Money aside, I’d dump a few mags through one.

My buddy has an FN 57 and it’s an interesting piece, fun to shoot, and shoot fast.

With the price of ammo these days, who knows, maybe 57 will end up cheaper than 9mm soon????
 
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Is personal investment necessary to form an opinion?
I was told by lots of people that a Taurus Judge was not accurate with .45 for one reason or another. So, I bought one to see and realized it was easy to hit out to 20 yards with one. For a sub $400 revolver, it has one of the best triggers DA or SA I've felt on a double action revolver.

I have heard a lot of praise for the Ruger SP101 over the years, so I bought one years ago and it's the most overrated and overpriced double action revolver I own. Horribly heavy trigger, terrible ergos with the skinny grip, a used Charter from the 80s shoots better than the SP101 and it cost half as much.

Then I realized a lot of people don't know what the fugg they're talking about.
 

Brewer

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No, but it helps other people decide wether your opinion matters or not.

Now I remember. We went over this re: bullpups when everyone preferred IWI to KelTec. You tried invalidating critics there, too.

We get it. A couple of you dig KelTecs. Some of us don't. Just be happy with what you got and don't it personally when others choose differently. If it really is some undervalued gold, the market will eventually reflect it and you can rave about KelTec Perfection® then. In the meantime your efforts would be better spent advising KelTec about all the things drgrant said. Maybe they'll hire you for engineering and design.
 
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Leave it to Sewer to talk down to others, especially when he's trying to say he knows what's good and not from what others tell him and what the price of something is compared to a similar thing.

IDK, perhaps he cannot think for himself? 🤖

It's funny because I remember reading and hearing for years how accurate Marlin .22's were so I bought one and it was the least accurate .22 rifle I've ever owned, yet a similar priced Ruger Charger would shoot groups 1.25 inches smaller with the same scope. I never saw people talking about the Charger or its accuracy, so had I asked about it the responses I would have gotten would have been how it's stupid and how a CZ or a custom built 10/22 is so much better.

Point is that you can't take popularity and product movement in the market to mean that something is indicative of quality or excellence, if it did then Hi Points and Glocks would be the best pistols in the world.
 

ReluctantDecoy

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Prior to flugaloo pricing, anyone that considered buying anything in 5.7, priced out range ammo for it, and then still thought it was a good idea, don’t give a f*** about the msrp!! With flugaloo pricing in effect, OFMG.

Money aside, I’d dump a few mags through one.

My buddy has an FN 57 and it’s an interesting piece, fun to shoot, and shoot fast.

With the price of ammo these days, who knows, maybe 57 will end up cheaper than 9mm soon????

True, about anyone pursuing this caliber probably isn't as concerned with the price tag, but the thought of spending a grand on a Kel Tec pistol really throws me off. It's like someone with Mercedes money buying a Kia the price of a Mercedes.

Granted, the 50rd P90 mags are cool, but for $800 you could buy the CMMG Banshee 5.7x28 upper that comes with 3 40 round mags that works with any stanag AR lower. With that set up, you'd most likely have a better trigger, better control scheme, better manual of arms, and better after market support. That's why I can't see spending more than, say, $400-500 on something like this.
 

Brewer

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Leave it to Sewer to talk down to others, especially when he's trying to say he knows what's good and not from what others tell him and what the price of something is compared to a similar thing.

IDK, perhaps he cannot think for himself? 🤖

It's funny because I remember reading and hearing for years how accurate Marlin .22's were so I bought one and it was the least accurate .22 rifle I've ever owned, yet a similar priced Ruger Charger would shoot groups 1.25 inches smaller with the same scope. I never saw people talking about the Charger or its accuracy, so had I asked about it the responses I would have gotten would have been how it's stupid and how a CZ or a custom built 10/22 is so much better.

Point is that you can't take popularity and product movement in the market to mean that something is indicative of quality or excellence, if it did then Hi Points and Glocks would be the best pistols in the world.

"You don't agree with me, therefore you're talking down to others. And I'll call you Sewer without realizing the irony of telling you not to talk down to others."

"Everyone who prefers other designs over KelTec can't think for themselves. Sure, they've voted with their dollars, but that's not independent thinking."

So only sheep don't shoot KelTec and differing opinions are personal attacks. Okay.

There's usually some reason people spend their money on a gun. Same when they don't. Market share alone doesn't indicate quality but it reflects the sum of all people voting with their dollars for their own reasons. You guys need to stop taking that as a comment on yourselves personally.
 

hillman

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Now I remember. We went over this re: bullpups when everyone preferred IWI to KelTec. You tried invalidating critics there, too.

We get it. A couple of you dig KelTecs. Some of us don't. Just be happy with what you got and don't it personally when others choose differently. If it really is some undervalued gold, the market will eventually reflect it and you can rave about KelTec Perfection® then. In the meantime your efforts would be better spent advising KelTec about all the things drgrant said. Maybe they'll hire you for engineering and design.
You think maybe they'll hire me without any engineering experience but a very strong opinion on it?
 

Brewer

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You think maybe they'll hire me without any engineering experience but a very strong opinion on it?

Nah. The only relevant question is, "Can you deliver something that someone will pay for?" The degree to which you can will dictate how in-demand you'll be in the market. That goes for you, the gun, and every other product/service on the market.

Seriously, stop taking comments on a gun company personally and you'll be much happier.

I'm going in to work now. Got goods and services to trade for money.
 

mikeyp

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You should give em a chance or at least support them by not talking crap on forums for newbs to pass judgement... like this is a cool new innovative firearm.... maybe we need more 357 revolvers... glock clones....single stack 9s and cheap ars.

Love them or hate them they push the boundaries which is good for us as a community. And they are reasonably priced to boot.

Biggest problem with them is they don't make enough of something which creates this second hand market where people charge a lot for their stuff lol
 

mikeyp

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I think that's to not nose dive their own prices on guns lol.

Yeah but I wanted a Sub2k a while back(stll do at some point lol) and people were charging insane money for them because Kel-Tec was slow AF making/shipping them so I said screw it. i was watching a show and someone used one as a sniper rifle from on top of a building, i was like really? lol
 

drgrant

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I think that's to not nose dive their own prices on guns lol.

No, they just plain suck at volume production. Admittedly in their defense it might just be very conservative fiscal management on their part. Which is smart, business wise. This is going back years not just during scares.
 

jkelly1229

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No, they just plain suck at volume production. Admittedly in their defense it might just be very conservative fiscal management on their part. Which is smart, business wise. This is going back years not just during scares.
Yeah but if they ramped production their price would fall to Taurus, sccy, etc prices.

Which would in turn make you think they are junk guns... if they keep supply a little lower it keeps price higher for their products
 

drgrant

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[/QUOTE]
Yeah but if they ramped production their price would fall to Taurus, sccy, etc prices.

Not sure if serious or not. Kel tec pistols are still cheap, and they eliminated a lot of guns that compete with those brands. Most of KTs shit is weird and doesn't compete directly. (The sub2k is an exception)

Which would in turn make you think they are junk guns... if they keep supply a little lower it keeps price higher for their products

They are leaving money on the table though with guns like the sub2k being constantly underproduced... because there are people who would cross shop up to sub2k from a shit point, or down from the ruger pc9.... so they are literally losing PCC sales to both shit point and ruger. And occasionally the pos beretta storm, too. They've gotten better in recent years but still far from perfect. Even during the trump slump they still underproduced.

Of courses you'll say none of those fit in a suitcase. Most sub2k owners open the gun and it stays that way, forever.... [rofl] it is a cool feature, though.
 
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No, they just plain suck at volume production. Admittedly in their defense it might just be very conservative fiscal management on their part. Which is smart, business wise. This is going back years not just during scares.
People think every gun company is capable of being Ruger or S&W with huge facilities loaded with machines and Kel Tec is far from that level. They're really a local machine shop trying to serve a national customer base, so they're limited in space, machines, employees, tooling, etc. To increase your production volume you more of all those things and to get those things you need money. Taking out loans means it's going to cost you more to reach that output level sooner than if you paid for it in full later.

So, it's a smarter long term strategy as opposed to a get rich quick gamble.
 

drgrant

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People think every gun company is capable of being Ruger or S&W with huge facilities loaded with machines and Kel Tec is far from that level. They're really a local machine shop trying to serve a national customer base, so they're limited in space, machines, employees, tooling, etc. To increase your production volume you more of all those things and to get those things you need money. Taking out loans means it's going to cost you more to reach that output level sooner than if you paid for it in full later.

So, it's a smarter long term strategy as opposed to a get rich quick gamble.

I get that, but for a company that is well over a DECADE old, the fact that they have no scalability is a little retarded. But there is probably some big economic fencepost that
makes expansion dangerous or difficult. Or it would risk profitability etc. Or they are content with the size they are at, more than likely. And good for them.

Even given those limitations though some of the shit they did in the past was mind boggling. Like there would be a drought of Sub 2000 9mm guns, and Kel Tec is still shipping
f***ing 40s to distributors. Why even make them in 40 at all? (although I'm going to guess they've probably been axed by this point, or at least the numbers are way down if not
axed completely). The fact that they killed the P11 is actually a good sign though. No point in continuing to sell a product they clearly got defeated on.
 
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I get that, but for a company that is well over a DECADE old, the fact that they have no scalability is a little retarded. But there is probably some big economic fencepost that
makes expansion dangerous or difficult. Or it would risk profitability etc. Or they are content with the size they are at, more than likely. And good for them.

Even given those limitations though some of the shit they did in the past was mind boggling. Like there would be a drought of Sub 2000 9mm guns, and Kel Tec is still shipping
f***ing 40s to distributors. Why even make them in 40 at all? (although I'm going to guess they've probably been axed by this point, or at least the numbers are way down if not
axed completely). The fact that they killed the P11 is actually a good sign though. No point in continuing to sell a product they clearly got defeated on.
It's hard to argue with what a 180 grain bullet will do from a Sub 2000, both on target and the recoil on your shoulder. Look, the .40 still sells, maybe not as much as 9mm, but if the run on 9mm and resulting shortage hasn't convinced you it's worth having an alternative caliber that is as capable or more capable, then nothing will.

I hope to see Kel Tec drop more stuff like the PLR pistols and the .22 rifle, they were okay stuff 10+ years ago, but they're antiquated and no longer in demand today given there are better options at even lower cost.
 

ReluctantDecoy

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The fact that they killed the P11 is actually a good sign though. No point in continuing to sell a product they clearly got defeated on.
I agree that it's time to move on, but they've been selling these for 25 years, which I would assume means some level of success/profit. I think the clear defeat only came in recent years with the maturity of subcompact polymer striker fired guns.

On an unrelated note, just read that the owner/lead designer of Keltec, George Kellgren (ie. "Keltec") was the lead designer of the Intratec Tec-9. Just an interesting fact.
 

ColdDayInHell

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That costs a grand and you will have a hard time finding a holster to fit it.


IDK, I feel that if 5.7x28 was going to happen it would have happened by now. I certainly won't be jumping on the bandwagon until the 5.7 proves itself as more than a gimmick or niche cartridge. Ruger at least had sense enough to make an actual pistol to compete with the FN Five-Seven, but this? Who the hell asked for this?
KelTec makes some really cool stuff. Too bad this Star Wars gun will never see the light of day in The PRMA.
 

drgrant

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KelTec makes some really cool stuff. Too bad this Star Wars gun will never see the light of day in The PRMA.
Lol you won't be able to buy it at deli ticket emporium but they will be here whether the state likes it or not....
 

jkelly1229

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It's hard to argue with what a 180 grain bullet will do from a Sub 2000, both on target and the recoil on your shoulder. Look, the .40 still sells, maybe not as much as 9mm, but if the run on 9mm and resulting shortage hasn't convinced you it's worth having an alternative caliber that is as capable or more capable, then nothing will.

I hope to see Kel Tec drop more stuff like the PLR pistols and the .22 rifle, they were okay stuff 10+ years ago, but they're antiquated and no longer in demand today given there are better options at even lower cost.
.... its easy to argue that 180 grains should be out of a 10mm ;) not a fortayyy

Actually damn my smart assery now I want one in 10 and 45
 

ReluctantDecoy

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The more I look at this thing and think about what I would end up doing to it to make it the ideal platform, the more sense it makes to just buy a used PS90 instead if I were really that interested in this caliber/mag (which I don't think I am). Sure, it would be more expensive to go FN, but you'll end up north of a $1,000 anyway with this Kel Tec after figuring out a brace/stock and adapter, and I'm sure the MSRP will be the street price if current market trends are in place by the time it is available.
 

icyclefar

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FWIW, the P90 design began in 1986 and went into production in 1990 well before the Fed ban so there are preban magazines out there, somewhere, on this planet.
 

ReluctantDecoy

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FWIW, the P90 design began in 1986 and went into production in 1990 well before the Fed ban so there are preban magazines out there, somewhere, on this planet.
Possibly, but FN didn't finalize SS190 spec until 1993, so any mags prior to that were for SS90 rounds which were actually longer bullets. They had to modify the P90 mag for the shorter SS190. By that point, you're right on the cusp of 94 ban, so who knows if there are any usable preban mags anywhere. It would have been very close.
 
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