Kel Tec is making a 5.7x28 pistol that uses P90 mags

Rating - 100%
1   0   0
Joined
Mar 24, 2017
Messages
3,603
Likes
3,488
Location
Worcester, MA


For something equally craptastic and useless...

 

jkelly1229

NES Member
Rating - 100%
8   0   0
Joined
Nov 16, 2014
Messages
6,845
Likes
4,154
Except that, most of the shit they make has some big, dick-self-punching, design flaw that exists which is why nobody takes them seriously
beyond being a joke manufacturer like Hi-Point. I love the existence of that stuff in the market because it leaves more inventory of the
stuff that's actually good for everyone else by draining out wallets.

The sad thing is they have the potential to make some great stuff but they always seem to fall about 10 feet short of getting "there".




LMAO we already discussed that, hate to break it to you but that is never happening. It will never be anything more than a niche cartridge for people that like to set cash on
fire. It was a shitty cartridge back then and it still is today. It is "fun to shoot" though I will give it that.
I disagree keltec has some pretty great guns too that don't fail.

P33... ugly as hell but with a tail hook and dot sight isn't horrendous

P17 cool 22

Pmr30 is really cool

Cmr30 while I wish it was on 4.6 or 5.7 still really cool

P32 is popular

P9 isn't crap

Their bullpups are serviceable

I only have their pmr and cmr and bought both for 700 with ammo so I didn't buy them retail

But they have some duds for sure but what company doesn't

We all remember 45 gap

Hks p2000 lineup

Beretta Nanos and picos

Colt double eagle
 

drgrant

Moderator
NES Member
Rating - 100%
61   0   0
Joined
Mar 21, 2006
Messages
74,082
Likes
42,372
I disagree keltec has some pretty great guns too that don't fail.

KSG - great idea but gun sucks to reload, you want to throw it at the target when it runs dry.

RDB - great idea but mag release is the worst mag catch ever seen on any firearm, ever. It's real great when it drops the mags on your feet.

RFB - great idea but... oh nevermind, you can never buy one because they don't make enough of them. Then on top of it in 2020 the gun still uses f***ing metric FAL mags (which nobody sells at retail except for the few old school gun shops that still have junk piles in them) like seriously? [rofl]

Their 22s? ok, maybe concede that. That market segment is shit so the bar isnt very high.

Most of their small guns like the PF9, P11, P32, P3AT, etc? Most of that shit that was done way better by someone
else. The P32 is okay. Who is buying that, though? [rofl]

WRT guns being popular? That doesn't "make them good." As an example the Bodyguard 380 is a very popular handgun for S&W, but that doesn't magically absolve its
sins in terms of it being a flaming bag of dog poop.

I am glad Kel-Tec exists to give a place for weird people to set cash on fire, but most of their product line is worthless to me. Maybe they should take a cue from Taurus of
all people, and "grow up" a bit. Taurus released like 3 at least like B+ grade products that fundamentally aren't shit (G3, G3C, and TX22) in the past couple years.

But they have some duds for sure but what company doesn't

We all remember 45 gap

Hks p2000 lineup

Beretta Nanos and picos

Colt double eagle

Except that outside of the P2000 (im not even sure why you included it, those are decent guns) the other crap you mentioned is either just not
sold a lot or only constitutes like 1% of their product line/sales. (Although Beretta still cant get out of its own way, guns like the Pico, Nano, and APX are all
junk/dumb).

Meanwhile Kel-Tec is still over here licking the windows and still selling weird shit they could easily fix but don't care to, and honestly I don't even blame
them, because if they're making good money doing it, from a business aspect they must be doing something right, even if their market demographic is
either skinflints or short bus types, or people just attracted to gimmick guns. Or just like Hi-Point, although they're even worse- entire product line is junk
but it has a cult following. [laugh] From a product perspective they both make marginal stuff, but both have demonstrated decent business acumen, I'll
give them that much. They know their buyers very well, and how to play them like a fiddle. If Kel-Tec went to the movies it'd be like this guy...

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QG5WBTXgh_o


Well Played Kel-Tec, well played. [rofl]

ETA: at least in this case they did make one smart decision... they decided to use P90 mags... which while not perfect, are actually proven.
 
Last edited:

drgrant

Moderator
NES Member
Rating - 100%
61   0   0
Joined
Mar 21, 2006
Messages
74,082
Likes
42,372
While this probably isn’t for me I can’t understand not adding a 1913 rail to the back of the pistol. If you could easily add a stock people may SBR it or toss a brace on.

Because, Kel-Tec. That's EXACTLY the kind of design decisions they make.

Every, damned, time. [laugh]

Maybe 5 or 10 years from now there will be a version with a rail on the end. Or someone will come up with a gizmo to do that.
 

Behind Enemy Lines

Dealer
NES Member
Rating - 100%
9   0   0
Joined
Apr 23, 2017
Messages
726
Likes
951
Except that outside of the P2000 (im not even sure why you included it, those are decent guns) the other crap you mentioned is either just not
sold a lot or only constitutes like 1% of their product line/sales. (Although Beretta still cant get out of its own way, guns like the Pico, Nano, and APX are all
junk/dumb).
Agreed the P2000 is a good gun, but the APX is a very good gun too. Problem with it is it fits in the "slightly improved Glock" category which is already way overcrowded.
 

drgrant

Moderator
NES Member
Rating - 100%
61   0   0
Joined
Mar 21, 2006
Messages
74,082
Likes
42,372
Agreed the P2000 is a good gun, but the APX is a very good gun too. Problem with it is it fits in the "slightly improved Glock" category which is already way overcrowded.

The APX is ugly as shit (with those weird cocking serrations on the slide, but the real dealbreaker for me was the one I tried had a weird f***ed up trigger on it, although that gun might have been broken but dry firing it just about made me nauseous. Felt weird as hell.
 

Behind Enemy Lines

Dealer
NES Member
Rating - 100%
9   0   0
Joined
Apr 23, 2017
Messages
726
Likes
951
The APX is ugly as shit (with those weird cocking serrations on the slide, but the real dealbreaker for me was the one I tried had a weird f***ed up trigger on it, although that gun might have been broken but dry firing it just about made me nauseous. Felt weird as hell.
I actually like the Toblerone serrations [laugh]
 

Kevin_NH

NES Member
Rating - 100%
9   0   0
Joined
Jun 25, 2010
Messages
8,643
Likes
2,481
Location
WNW of MHT
Depending on street price and reliability, I might consider one just to have another use for P90 mags.
I think it was Eddie Coyle who pointed out that the cartridge is not much different, ballistically, from 22 magnum. So you can get most of thefun of that format for (what used to be) less than 0.20 per round.
Not really an accurate comparison, especially as you approach the 10" barrel length of the original P90, which the Kel-Tec P50 does at 9.6″ of barrel.

In this barrel length, [email protected] yields 370 ft/lbs, and then there's the difference in projectile geometry and construction...
 

ReluctantDecoy

NES Member
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
Oct 17, 2017
Messages
3,241
Likes
3,164
Location
Cambridge, MA
Depending on street price and reliability, I might consider one just to have another use for P90 mags.

Not really an accurate comparison, especially as you approach the 10" barrel length of the original P90, which the Kel-Tec P50 does at 9.6″ of barrel.

In this barrel length, [email protected] yields 370 ft/lbs, and then there's the difference in projectile geometry and construction...

You have a point, but it should also be noted that the article you linked chose to cite FPS from a FN5.7 shooting some boutique rounds to achieve that above 2,000 fps figure. If you look at the citation page, they show FN's own FNH SS197 SR get 1,749 fps. Impressive coming from a pistol, but not the 2,000+ fps impressive.

Still, that was from a sub 5" barrel, so I'm sure you're right about a 9-10" barrel.
 

jkelly1229

NES Member
Rating - 100%
8   0   0
Joined
Nov 16, 2014
Messages
6,845
Likes
4,154
Agreed the P2000 is a good gun, but the APX is a very good gun too. Problem with it is it fits in the "slightly improved Glock" category which is already way overcrowded.
Stupid striker bar pops up allowing you to disable the gun literally every other gun manages to internalize that. Imo that makes it poorly designed... I really liked mine except for that
 
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
Jan 15, 2018
Messages
2,952
Likes
2,559


For something equally craptastic and useless...


Ian from Forgotten Weapons on youtube bought a Calico 9mm and has several videos up of him shooting it and no issues the first 300 rds. Of course, he actually read the owner's manual on how to load the helical magazine, which most Bubba's back in the day likely didn't do and that's where the major issues seemed to be with the Calicos.

A braced Calico pistol would make for a fun gun.
 
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
Jan 15, 2018
Messages
2,952
Likes
2,559
KSG - great idea but gun sucks to reload, you want to throw it at the target when it runs dry.

RDB - great idea but mag release is the worst mag catch ever seen on any firearm, ever. It's real great when it drops the mags on your feet.

RFB - great idea but... oh nevermind, you can never buy one because they don't make enough of them. Then on top of it in 2020 the gun still uses f***ing metric FAL mags (which nobody sells at retail except for the few old school gun shops that still have junk piles in them) like seriously? [rofl]

Their 22s? ok, maybe concede that. That market segment is shit so the bar isnt very high.

Most of their small guns like the PF9, P11, P32, P3AT, etc? Most of that shit that was done way better by someone
else. The P32 is okay. Who is buying that, though? [rofl]

WRT guns being popular? That doesn't "make them good." As an example the Bodyguard 380 is a very popular handgun for S&W, but that doesn't magically absolve its
sins in terms of it being a flaming bag of dog poop.

I am glad Kel-Tec exists to give a place for weird people to set cash on fire, but most of their product line is worthless to me. Maybe they should take a cue from Taurus of
all people, and "grow up" a bit. Taurus released like 3 at least like B+ grade products that fundamentally aren't shit (G3, G3C, and TX22) in the past couple years.



Except that outside of the P2000 (im not even sure why you included it, those are decent guns) the other crap you mentioned is either just not
sold a lot or only constitutes like 1% of their product line/sales. (Although Beretta still cant get out of its own way, guns like the Pico, Nano, and APX are all
junk/dumb).

Meanwhile Kel-Tec is still over here licking the windows and still selling weird shit they could easily fix but don't care to, and honestly I don't even blame
them, because if they're making good money doing it, from a business aspect they must be doing something right, even if their market demographic is
either skinflints or short bus types, or people just attracted to gimmick guns. Or just like Hi-Point, although they're even worse- entire product line is junk
but it has a cult following. [laugh] From a product perspective they both make marginal stuff, but both have demonstrated decent business acumen, I'll
give them that much. They know their buyers very well, and how to play them like a fiddle. If Kel-Tec went to the movies it'd be like this guy...

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QG5WBTXgh_o


Well Played Kel-Tec, well played. [rofl]

ETA: at least in this case they did make one smart decision... they decided to use P90 mags... which while not perfect, are actually proven.

Other than this P50, the SU16/SU22 pistols, and the .22 Mag pistol, which .22 Mag and semi auto is just a recipe for disaster, I don't see the rest of their line as gimmick guns.

The CP33 is the highest capacity .22 pistol I've ever seen. It is built to be and marketed as a competition gun, it has a great trigger, it's very accurate, and runs CCI Standard Vel. with no issues, the pic rail on top makes it very easy to mount a standard red dot to, so it delivers on everything. Great for putting in an IWB holster to go to go shopping on the weekend? No.

Their .32, .380, and 9mm pistols have long been some of the lightest, cheapest CCW pistols around. While I hate the triggers, they're all capable of being shot effectively out to 10 yards. I will agree the LCP and LC9 are better made guns, much better triggers, but that doesn't make the Kel Tec pistols useless, not when you can pick them up for under $200. That doesn't mean I will buy any, but others are. You would be surprised how fast the .32s sell on gunbroker.

I will give them credit too in that they know when to drop something that no longer sells because not soon after the P365 came out the P11 got discontinued as nobody was interested in a fatter subcompact that held the same capacity, but had a worse trigger.

The long guns is where Kel Tec appears to "get it." The Sub 2000 is a short, light carbine you can fully conceal in a backpack or suitcase or under a car seat and they use Glock mags. The RDB is the lowest price bullpup rifle on the market coming in at half what a Tavor costs and the legality of a bullpup is not in question, unlike braced AR pistols. I think that alone makes it more worth owning a bullpup than a braced pistol.

The RFB... I don't see the point of a .308 bullpup. The CMR30 would be a cool Boog rifle if it's reliable, but it's .22 Mag in a semi auto so it won't be. Great idea on paper.

The KSG, tell you what if after 14 shots of 12 gauge... if that hasn't solved your problem nothing short of an AC-130 will. The KS7 is apparently vaporware and if it worked correctly might be a good option for a 26 inch OAL shotgun. I'd rather have a KSG or KS7 over having a sawed off Mossberg with a tax stamp because trying to sell an NFA item is a fugging nightmare and a Shockwave with a brace again falls into a legally questionable grey area that I'm not interested in prodding in the future under Harris/Biden.

So, the rifles and shotguns are where Kel Tec seems to have their shit together, but it's most of their pistol line where they seem to be high on LSD when they talk about what new product to make.

This P50 tho is about the most out there thing I've ever seen Kel Tec make and they're taking a real gamble thinking people are willing to blow a grand on a quirky caliber in what is basically built around being braced, which if someone is going to brace this, I don't see what it does that a braced AR pistol with a 40 rd Magpul mag or D60 drum won't do already. At least with the AR pistol you can strap on a mag pouch and hold 5 mags, with the P50... good luck carrying more than one spare mag. [mg]
 
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
Jan 15, 2018
Messages
2,952
Likes
2,559
Whoa....hit the breaks. Rumor is that the MSRP is $995! As American Pickers would say, "I'd be a player at $400-500". But a grand?!?
This is a definite problem especially right now and likely to be the next few years in that new Kel Tec guns will not be available at or below MSRP for a lonn time. I got the CP33 for under $380 because I looked every day online for over a year, this tho? If there are that many tactical tards who want it, you'll never see the P50 below a grand, not until maybe 2026.
 

edmorseiii

Navy Veteran
NES Member
Rating - 100%
18   0   0
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
Messages
20,394
Likes
14,010
Location
NH
Other than this P50, the SU16/SU22 pistols, and the .22 Mag pistol, which .22 Mag and semi auto is just a recipe for disaster, I don't see the rest of their line as gimmick guns.

The CP33 is the highest capacity .22 pistol I've ever seen. It is built to be and marketed as a competition gun, it has a great trigger, it's very accurate, and runs CCI Standard Vel. with no issues, the pic rail on top makes it very easy to mount a standard red dot to, so it delivers on everything. Great for putting in an IWB holster to go to go shopping on the weekend? No.

Their .32, .380, and 9mm pistols have long been some of the lightest, cheapest CCW pistols around. While I hate the triggers, they're all capable of being shot effectively out to 10 yards. I will agree the LCP and LC9 are better made guns, much better triggers, but that doesn't make the Kel Tec pistols useless, not when you can pick them up for under $200. That doesn't mean I will buy any, but others are. You would be surprised how fast the .32s sell on gunbroker.

I will give them credit too in that they know when to drop something that no longer sells because not soon after the P365 came out the P11 got discontinued as nobody was interested in a fatter subcompact that held the same capacity, but had a worse trigger.

The long guns is where Kel Tec appears to "get it." The Sub 2000 is a short, light carbine you can fully conceal in a backpack or suitcase or under a car seat and they use Glock mags. The RDB is the lowest price bullpup rifle on the market coming in at half what a Tavor costs and the legality of a bullpup is not in question, unlike braced AR pistols. I think that alone makes it more worth owning a bullpup than a braced pistol.

The RFB... I don't see the point of a .308 bullpup. The CMR30 would be a cool Boog rifle if it's reliable, but it's .22 Mag in a semi auto so it won't be. Great idea on paper.

The KSG, tell you what if after 14 shots of 12 gauge... if that hasn't solved your problem nothing short of an AC-130 will. The KS7 is apparently vaporware and if it worked correctly might be a good option for a 26 inch OAL shotgun. I'd rather have a KSG or KS7 over having a sawed off Mossberg with a tax stamp because trying to sell an NFA item is a fugging nightmare and a Shockwave with a brace again falls into a legally questionable grey area that I'm not interested in prodding in the future under Harris/Biden.

So, the rifles and shotguns are where Kel Tec seems to have their shit together, but it's most of their pistol line where they seem to be high on LSD when they talk about what new product to make.

This P50 tho is about the most out there thing I've ever seen Kel Tec make and they're taking a real gamble thinking people are willing to blow a grand on a quirky caliber in what is basically built around being braced, which if someone is going to brace this, I don't see what it does that a braced AR pistol with a 40 rd Magpul mag or D60 drum won't do already. At least with the AR pistol you can strap on a mag pouch and hold 5 mags, with the P50... good luck carrying more than one spare mag. [mg]
Is that CP33 really a decent pistol? It strikes me as a jam-o-matic.

This P50 if set up with an MCX style stock would fold up to roughly 12", be way slimmer, and weigh likely 1/3 what a 10" AR15 with a 40+ round mag.
 
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
Jan 15, 2018
Messages
2,952
Likes
2,559
Is that CP33 really a decent pistol? It strikes me as a jam-o-matic.

This P50 if set up with an MCX style stock would fold up to roughly 12", be way slimmer, and weigh likely 1/3 what a 10" AR15 with a 40+ round mag.
It's like any .22, feed it what it likes and it's fine. I wasn't surprised to find it didn't like cycling Winchester, yet it shot Winchester the most accurately. If you just want reliable feeding stick to CCI.

I doubt it's gonna weigh a third what an AR pistol does, the P50 weighs 3.2lbs stock, so slap a mag in and a brace on and it's probably 5lbs, the same weight as a Kel Tec SU16 that uses AR mags and has a folding stock.
 

ReluctantDecoy

NES Member
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
Oct 17, 2017
Messages
3,241
Likes
3,164
Location
Cambridge, MA
This is a definite problem especially right now and likely to be the next few years in that new Kel Tec guns will not be available at or below MSRP for a lonn time. I got the CP33 for under $380 because I looked every day online for over a year, this tho? If there are that many tactical tards who want it, you'll never see the P50 below a grand, not until maybe 2026.

Even at MSRP, it is insanely, absurdly, ridiculously overpriced for what it is.
 

seanc

NES Member
Rating - 100%
34   0   0
Joined
Mar 7, 2008
Messages
4,037
Likes
884
Location
northbridge, ma
Except that, most of the shit they make has some big, dick-self-punching, design flaw that exists which is why nobody takes them seriously
beyond being a joke manufacturer like Hi-Point. I love the existence of that stuff in the market because it leaves more inventory of the
stuff that's actually good for everyone else by draining out wallets.

The sad thing is they have the potential to make some great stuff but they always seem to fall about 10 feet short of getting "there".




LMAO we already discussed that, hate to break it to you but that is never happening. It will never be anything more than a niche cartridgetij for people that like to set cash on
fire. It was a shitty cartridge back then and it still is today. It is "fun to shoot" though I will give it that.
keltec makes some pretty good stuff. The p32/ p3at/ KSG and a few others. Good stuff. Reasonable price different. In some ways they are putting out different interesting things the way that calico, swd and a few other used to.

maybe not the prettiest, but functional plastic.
 
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
Jan 15, 2018
Messages
2,952
Likes
2,559
keltec makes some pretty good stuff. The p32/ p3at/ KSG and a few others. Good stuff. Reasonable price different. In some ways they are putting out different interesting things the way that calico, swd and a few other used to.

maybe not the prettiest, but functional plastic.
And one of the nice things is that instead of making a proprietary magazine, they make every attempt to take existing mags and building guns around them.

I'm waiting for Kel Tec to figure out that AK mags and 7.62x39 are really popular and will make a rifle that uses both, is affordable, but not trash like the Century AK's are.
 

Bistro

NES Member
Rating - 97.1%
34   1   0
Joined
Aug 13, 2012
Messages
814
Likes
482
The APX is ugly as shit (with those weird cocking serrations on the slide, but the real dealbreaker for me was the one I tried had a weird f***ed up trigger on it, although that gun might have been broken but dry firing it just about made me nauseous. Felt weird as hell.

You ain’t kidding

My buddy told he tried one out at his range and said they were pretty good. Later on we were at a gun shop and they had one.

What a pos that thing was, everything you said is true. After I tried it, I wanted to pistol whip him with it. I’ll never trust his opinion again.

The only thing beretta done right for quality and style with a handgun is the 92 and it’s variants. All there other stuff just looks like Buck Rogers goofy space ghost shit


The kel tec reminds me of the calico in the sci fi movie I Come In Peace

A95FCA9F-C48F-4629-B4AF-8F2A7CF85104.png
 
Last edited:

Waher

NES Member
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
Jan 2, 2014
Messages
13,871
Likes
21,679
Location
Boston Gun & Rifle and Braintree Rifle & Pistol
Wait a few years and Ruger will copy it with significant improvements because their engineering team seems to like to do that.

It was also somehow be beautiful or absolutely hideous like someone did the technical drawings with a dull crayon, because Ruger also does this and can't seem to stop alternating between ugly ducklings and swans.
 

moojpg2

NES Member
Rating - 100%
8   0   0
Joined
Dec 8, 2007
Messages
1,289
Likes
1,838
first problem, it's a kel-tec
second issue, it's a kel-tec
third issue, there are no p90 preban mags
 
Top Bottom