House Review of S2284 (formerly SB 2265)

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you are both right....there is no easy answer to this legislation.

we are being forced to choose between a shit pie or a shit sandwich.....the argument can go either way.

I look at this current bill as a small shit sandwich with some decent french fries and soda.

No you're NOT forced to choose between shit. You simply need to choose NO FVCKING WAY! Anything other than that is what they want and you guys want to give them that.

I can hear the meeting now. "We will come at them with a bunch of horrid shit, the CLEO's only want control of FID's so when they complain about everything we will pull the other crap back and keep discretionary FID's and they will lop it up like hungry dogs... BECAUSE IT COULD HAVE BEEN WORSE"

Victory for gun owners and future gun owners right? This bill has the ability to destroy new potential gun owners...
 
What if someone pulled the fire alarm up on bacon hill

bbbwhwhwhwhwhhahahahhahahhahahahwhhhhahahahahhahahhahahahahhahhahah

Boston FIAHHH at your service
 
Still no vote?

Maybe the antis want to quash this so they can propose worse things next year.

Remember, next year their will not be powerful pro 2a members in the legislature.

They will be able to pass anything without strong 2a folks to counter them.

who is pro 2a if I may ask
 
So 4 hours to go for this to get passed on both the house and senate? I can't see this thing just die after all the time and publicity put into it.

It's happened:



About rules:
Whats next after todays hearing?


Tarr is bending over backwards to compliment the speaker dude. Or is he just being facetious?



Speaking about Civil Rights and Public Safety Act House Bill H2259, did any of the pieces of this make it into today's bill?
 
Still no vote?

Maybe the antis want to quash this so they can propose worse things next year.

Remember, next year their will not be powerful pro 2a members in the legislature.

They will be able to pass anything without strong 2a folks to counter them.

Some of the antis may lose their jobs this Fall.....regardless of who fills their shoes. The 'shoe fillers' may think twice before infringing further on our Civil Rights.
 
I do sleep with these laws. I don't get to go home to a free state. This is progress. For the first time in my lifetime, we made actual progress.

Well we will have to agree to disagree. MA went to shall issue FID to may issue depending on what the king wants. To me that is not progress.
 
^^this
there are positive aspects of S2284, which may not be present in the next version if it doesn't get passed.
the objections to FID suitability are based primarily on principle and not reality, which is that the LTC-A is still may-issue and thus MA is a may-issue state.

arguing about the FID is quite myopic when one considers the plethora of infringements already in place....and S2284 indeed addresses some of those infringments in a positive manner.

I asked my state taskmasters why everything has to be COMPREHENSIVE?

I know the answer why- they are sniveling pigs at the trough. Everyone has to get their pound of flesh from the holloi poloi. F em
 
It's wrong plain and simple and I dont GAF when shall issue FID will be beat in court. It will take YEARS and THOUSANDS of dollars to do so, while good people get screwed so you call can say "Well it could have been worse, I have my LTC so screw you guys...."

Yeah dude I dont need to reevaluate shit.

Someone from Comm2A (terraformer or Knuckle Dragger I think) already explained it this way (paraphrased):

The "may-issue FID" thing is quite honestly peanuts compared to the "may issue LTC" situation. The state has very few FIDs and its primarily owned by old fudds. Your real ability to keep and bear arms in this state is tied to the LTC. The LTC process needed major improvement, which this bill accomplishes. On top of that, requiring the chief to spell out in writing the reasons for denial or RESTRICTION and you being able to go to court with it is a big step up and could potentially end blanket red-town policies. Fixing the LTC process is infinitely more important than FIDs.
 
No you're NOT forced to choose between shit. You simply need to choose NO FVCKING WAY! Anything other than that is what they want and you guys want to give them that.

I can hear the meeting now. "We will come at them with a bunch of horrid shit, the CLEO's only want control of FID's so when they complain about everything we will pull the other crap back and keep discretionary FID's and they will lop it up like hungry dogs... BECAUSE IT COULD HAVE BEEN WORSE"

Victory for gun owners and future gun owners right? This bill has the ability to destroy new potential gun owners...

derek, we pro-2A freedom folks are a tiny sliver of the political landscape here in MA.
i agree with what you're saying but the sheeple here do not, and if we are not cautious + politically strategic then much worse can get pushed down our throats.
reference SAFE act....that happened because nobody was watching.
 
Someone from Comm2A (terraformer or Knuckle Dragger I think) already explained it this way (paraphrased):

The "may-issue FID" thing is quite honestly peanuts compared to the "may issue LTC" situation. The state has very few FIDs and its primarily owned by old fudds. Your real ability to keep and bear arms in this state is tied to the LTC. The LTC process needed major improvement, which this bill accomplishes. On top of that, requiring the chief to spell out in writing the reasons for denial or RESTRICTION and you being able to go to court with it is a big step up and could potentially end blanket red-town policies. Fixing the LTC process is infinitely more important than FIDs.

Wasn't me.
 
Wasn't me.

was one of you guys. Unless I'm getting screen names confused

Actually, I found the quote I was trying to refer to. Like I said, my memories blurry and I paraphrased the shit out of it, but here it is:
We really cannot afford to get hung up on the FID suitability issue. It's not important and unless your idea of the Second Amendment squares with that of Joe 'Shotgun' Biden, you're asking the wrong question. FID suitability is not the problem, suitability is the problem. Further more, a suitability based denial of and FID card is a poor vehicle for challenging suitability. It's settling for second place.

The bill as passed by the House contains some subtle, but incredibility important gifts that will make everyone's life better. Derailing this bill and saving 'shall issue' FIDs is like asking Mrs. Lincoln how she liked the play.
 
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Well we will have to agree to disagree. MA went to shall issue FID to may issue depending on what the king wants. To me that is not progress.

Fair enough.

I agree, THAT is not progress. I guess we're just weighing the different aspects of the bill differently.

(Were you around when we actually had a King in the governor's office? He liked Lobster.)
 
I will say it again. From where we were, they 'compromised' nothing, got plenty, and we had our God-given rights - enumerated in both the US and Commonwealth of MA Constitutions - the right to keep and bear arms -eroded.

I'm not going all keyboard commando/Molon labe, I'm just a realist who is viewing the calculus on this bill as an erosion of our liberty and freedom.

I'm advocating in enlightened self interest. I HAVE an LTC-A from a green town, but I WAS at Gardner with my daughter - for 9 hours to wait and give testimony, and I called AND visited my rep and senator in person in Boston and their regional offices, AND I spoke at my fuddy gun club about this AND I got my neighbors involved and calling as well. That said, I support Comm2a, and I support GOAL, but this is NOT a f*cking win. Period. Freaking period. Could it be worse? Yeah, but a mouthful of shit from the 'small shit sandwich' we're being force fed still tastes pretty shitty.
 
Still no vote? Maybe the antis want to quash this so they can propose worse things next year. Remember, next year their will not be powerful pro 2a members in the legislature. They will be able to pass anything without strong 2a folks to counter them.

It is the next thing our side needs to do this year. We need to focus on the liberty minded candidates now running: Wyatt, Lee, etc. There are several posts about them.

who is pro 2a if I may ask

Peterson, Brewer, Moore, Timilty, Viera, among others.





Question: So if this passes, do the LTC-B holders just get automatically converted to LTC-A, or do they need to reapply, or what happens? Hey, maybe I ought to open a pepper spray store tomorrow, or a kiosk at the mall. ;-)
 
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So a new crime they stuck in...Disarming a LEO? So if you struggle with them , you get another charge. Needed? Nope.
Peterson is retiring? Shit now we will less people on our side...F*K
While I want to hear his speach I wish the hell they would just vote and be done with this game
 
Folks, call it whatever you want, take whatever view you want. Either way we stand to lose Rights. Valuable, important Rights. And there is NO WAY that the next Legislative group doesn't push additional horse crap - One a Month, Smart Guns, etc. It will continue to be a vicious cycle, as criminals will continue to commit violent acts, and we will continue to be perceived as the problem.

For the past 2 years we have stood on our SOAP BOX in the form of testimony, meetings, letters, calls, emails. It was a worthwhile and very noble effort by a very impressive group of us and many others. This is where we are today.

I implore you, as increasingly concerned citizens and fellow Americans, whatever happens now, please remember to visit your local BALLOT BOX this fall. If you prefer to continue to have to fight tooth & nail to gain so called "compromise", than so be it, don't vote. I get it, it's Massachusetts, and there is a one party rule. I'm not under any delusion that we can completely change things. But damnit, if you at least want to give Liberty a fighting chance, you really need to seriously consider finding and supporting those that will stand up for you. Let the Liberty in your heart and mind guide your vote.
 
Peterson, Brewer, Moore, Timilty, Viera, among others.[/QUOTE] your joking right read this from 1998


Governor Mitt Romney has signed into law a permanent assault weapons ban that he says will make it harder for criminals to get their hands on these guns.

"Deadly assault weapons have no place in Massachusetts," Romney said, at a bill signing ceremony on July 1 with legislators, sportsmen's groups and gun safety advocates. "These guns are not made for recreation or self-defense. They are instruments of destruction with the sole purpose of hunting down and killing people."

Like the federal assault weapons ban, the state ban, put in place in 1998, was scheduled to expire in September. The new law ensures these deadly weapons, including AK-47s, UZIs and Mac-10 rifles, are permanently prohibited in Massachusetts no matter what happens on the federal level.

"We are pleased to mark an important victory in the fight against crime," said Lieutenant Governor Kerry Healey. "The most important job of state government is ensuring public safety. Governor Romney and I are determined to do whatever it takes to stop the flood of dangerous weapons into our cities and towns and to make Massachusetts safer for law-abiding citizens."

The new law also makes a number of improvements to the current gun licensing system, including:

• Extending the term of a firearm identification card and a license to carry firearms from four years to six years;

• Granting a 90-day grace period for holders of firearm identification cards and licenses to carry who have applied for renewal; and

• Creating a seven-member Firearm License Review Board to review firearm license applications that have been denied.

"This is truly a great day for Massachusetts' sportsmen and women," said Senator Stephen M. Brewer. "These reforms correct some serious mistakes that were made during the gun debate in 1998, when many of our state's gun owners were stripped of their long-standing rights to own firearms. I applaud Senate President Travaglini for allowing the Senate to undertake this necessary legislation."

"I want to congratulate everyone that has worked so hard on this issue," said Representative George Peterson. "Because of their dedication, we are here today to sign into law this consensus piece of legislation. This change will go a long way toward fixing the flaws created by the 1998 law. Another key piece to this legislation addresses those citizens who have applied for renewals. If the government does not process their renewal in a timely fashion, those citizens won't be put at risk because of the 90 day grace period that is being adopted today."

"Never before has there been such bi-partisan cooperation in the passage of gun safety legislation of this magnitude in this nation," said John Rosenthal, co-founder and chair of Stop Handgun Violence. "I applaud the leadership of the Governor, Senate President, House Speaker and entire Legislature for passage of this assault weapons ban renewal. They have shown that Massachusetts can continue to lead the nation in protecting the public and law enforcement from military style assault weapons."
 
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"I want to congratulate everyone that has worked so hard on this issue," said Representative George Peterson. "Because of their dedication, we are here today to sign into law this consensus piece of legislation. This change will go a long way toward fixing the flaws created by the 1998 law. Another key piece to this legislation addresses those citizens who have applied for renewals. If the government does not process their renewal in a timely fashion, those citizens won't be put at risk because of the 90 day grace period that is being adopted today."

LOL, a champion of Freedom.
 
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