House Review of S2284 (formerly SB 2265)

[rchap36]

Our own resident GOAL hater. I see you still don't support GOAL or NES. It's so good to read your encouraging, thoughtful and enlightening phrases. Carry on.

Thank you

And for your info i spend all my extra money on my grandson med bills he had a brain tumor but thanks for asking

 

[Bob P]

But GOAL is part of the NRA ?????

No it isn't. They're separate organizations.

 

[92G]

never thought i would say this but i want this thing passed ASAP before a nastier more ****ed up version surfaces.

the point of making voluntary mental health treatment a no longer grounds for unsuitability is IMO a huge step forward.

sorry for those of you who oppose this but IMO its a good jump forward.

 

[rchap36]

No it isn't. They're separate organizations.

Off GOAL web page GOAL is the Official State Association of the National Rifle Association

 

[yanici]

Thank you

And for your info i spend all my extra money on my grandson med bills he had a brain tumor but thanks for asking

I'm sorry to hear that about your grandson. I truly wish him a full recovery.

Still doesn't excuse you though.

 

[Bill Katt]

never thought i would say this but i want this thing passed ASAP before a nastier more ****ed up version surfaces.

the point of making voluntary mental health treatment a no longer grounds for unsuitability is IMO a huge step forward.

sorry for those of you who oppose this but IMO its a good jump forward.

I thought that "voluntary" treatment wasn't a DQ as it is.

 

[rchap36]

I'm sorry to hear that about your grandson. I truly wish him a full recovery.

Still doesn't excuse you though.

I never asked for you to excuse me for anything I only reply to your statement about me not paying on NES as for GOAL I can send you copys of my card
PLEASE DON'T TAKE MY GRANDSON PROBLEM AS MY WEAKNESS

 

[jasons]

Off GOAL web page GOAL is the Official State Association of the National Rifle Association

They are affiliated but still two separate organizations. I thought you quit NES (or had your wife quit for you...)

 

[92G]

I thought that "voluntary" treatment wasn't a DQ as it is.

read Q 9 on the LTC app.
it current form one can be denied an LTC for literally visiting a doctor 15 years ago and saying "i think i have a drinking problem"

 

[Mike-Mike]

I thought that "voluntary" treatment wasn't a DQ as it is.

Removing it for "Suitability" is what we are talking about.

 

[HuntMaine]

No it isn't. They're separate organizations.

But their web page states GOAL is the Official State Association of the National Rifle Association

 

[rchap36]

They are affiliated but still two separate organizations. I thought you quit NES (or had your wife quit for you...)

she is on vacation
GO read the post I never had her Quit for me
Because NES will not give her a account we use the same one she did say I was stupid to quit because of you

 

[jasons]

I did but she is on vacation

Makes sense.

 

[Horrible]

Thank you

And for your info i spend all my extra money on my grandson med bills he had a brain tumor but thanks for asking

Damn. Sorry to hear about your grandson, man. Hope that he kicks the crap outta that.

 

[Bob P]

Off GOAL web page GOAL is the Official State Association of the National Rifle Association

They're officially endorsed. Thats all that means. They have no input into GOAL. Wallace sits on one of of the NRA boards but that has nothing to do with GOAL.

 

[rchap36]

Damn. Sorry to hear about your grandson, man. Hope that he kicks the crap outta that.

Thank you there is a thread on him (Ethan) he is doing good

 

[Bill Katt]

read Q 9 on the LTC app.
it current form one can be denied an LTC for literally visiting a doctor 15 years ago and saying "i think i have a drinking problem"

9. Are you or have you ever been under treatment for or confinement for drug addiction or habitual drunkenness?

I thought we were talking about the mental illness part of this. Too much info....brain is overflowing....lol.

 

[terraformer]

All this carping may be for naught. This bill still isn't scheduled and I am not confident this will get a vote. Someone must be buying votes but when that happens, the bill is not assured of passage. Every 2 years we go through this and a lot of big bills whither on the vine at the last minute. This may have the same fate.

 

[Dadstoys]

Still hoping he will be indited for something really bad, found guilty and has to face 30 lashings with a wet noodle.

Rumor has it he's chucking it all and starting a new dating service.
Let's keep in mind he's up for re-election in Nov.
We need to show him our gratitude for all his hard work

 

[LoginName]

All this carping may be for naught. This bill still isn't scheduled and I am not confident this will get a vote. Someone must be buying votes but when that happens, the bill is not assured of passage. Every 2 years we go through this and a lot of big bills whither on the vine at the last minute. This may have the same fate.

As of now, they have less than 4 1/2 hours to get it done.

The House, Senate and Governors office are all in the same building, so having a page/clerk/intern rush it from one
place to another in that time is entirely doable.

 

[Coyote33]

You guys continue to compromise. There is no bet that another one won't be down the pipe next year. You guys are crazy to be fine with this.

Nobody is fine with this. We are not in a position right now to do much else. We need to build a base of opposition in the legislature before we can start pushing back.

GOAL did all the damage control that could be done here but anyone suggesting that their reps vote for this in hope that the bogeyman goes away is smoking crack.

In MA we'll always be waiting for the other shoe to fall. With the push from your forum and from GOAL we dodged getting terminal pneumonia and ended up with a very minor runny nose.

They WILL be back. I think next time, OUR SIDE needs to strike first, with more bills, and more organization.

Please stop calling it "compromise". What rights of ours, previously taken away, did they give back?

If nothing else came out of this, I know where my State Rep and State Senator stand on 2A issues. Not b/c they told me, but they showed with their ACTIONS. Totally agree. This "Compromise" wasn't that b/c the other side didn't sacrifice a damn thing.

The next time ( and you know there will be one) they all start screaming compromise on gun rights they need to be called out on the spot as to exactly what we get in a compromise and explain the two way street that they don't understand. This drives me nuts that we let this slide every time we deal with this bullsh!t

OUR SIDE needs to confront them on this. They need to say "You want compromise? Here is what we want. What do you want? What will you give up?" Don't just let them take, take, TAKE!

Compromise refers to it being a compromise between the House and Senate versions of the bill.

You might be half right as to what some of the press is talking about. I think you're wrong regarding what most here are talking about.

Another back room deal. No surprise there at all.

Not really, compared to the last time. At least so far.

As I understand it from reading the bill (IANAL) the process is:

• The CLEO has some (unspecified? Specified via context surrounding the portion of the law being changed?) amount of time to file a petition with the court asking that the applicant be denied the FID.
• The court has 90 days to hold a evidence of unsuitability hearing. Not clear from the bill if this is an ex parte hearing (like when a cop asks for a warrant) or a real, contested hearing.
• Court has 15 days to decide if there is "sufficient evidence" to support a finding of unsuitability -- but does not actually issue a finding at this point.
• If the court finds there is sufficient evidence it has 75 days to hold a hearing to actually determine if the applicant is unsuitable.
• If the court does not act with 90 days of the CLEO filing the petition, the applicant is deemed suitable.
• If the court does not act within 75 days of finding "sufficient evidence", the applicant is again deemed suitable.

So let's see: 90+15+75 days from applying, is that right? 180 days?

Is it possible to be unsuitably unsuitable?

That will come out in the wash, after the (wait for it...) suit!

 

[Quiet]

Removing it for "Suitability" is what we are talking about.

I thought we were talking about the mental illness part of this. Too much info....brain is overflowing....lol.

Is removal of voluntary treatment from discretion in the bill somewhere?

All this carping may be for naught. This bill still isn't scheduled and I am not confident this will get a vote. Someone must be buying votes but when that happens, the bill is not assured of passage. Every 2 years we go through this and a lot of big bills whither on the vine at the last minute. This may have the same fate.

That would be unfortunate.

 

[JeepDriver]

Ok...The Bill is approved and the Groveller signs it. When does it go into effect?

Are there any "emergency" preambles or whatever that put it into effect immediately?

Or is there a set date after which it becomes valid law?

 

[Admin]

Nobody is fine with this. We are not in a position right now to do much else. We need to build a base of opposition in the legislature before we can start pushing back.

They WILL be back. I think next time, OUR SIDE needs to strike first, with more bills, and more organization.

MORE government is NEVER the answer.

 

[Ink]

MORE government is NEVER the answer.

Depends on what hole you are burying more government in......

 

[cstockwell]

MORE government is NEVER the answer.

Correct. We need to stop with all this legislation bullshit. More laws made by both sides is not the answer.

 

[Coyote33]

Anyone know, with our new "Universal Background Check" system, if the 4 limit p/y remains?

That would have meant they compromised.

Tell that to the 18 year old kid that got in one too many fights in high school and wants to hunt ducks or shoot trap when he comes home on leave.

GREAT EXAMPLE!

MORE government is NEVER the answer.

I agree.

 

[Quiet]

MORE government is NEVER the answer.

Is removing the ltc-b more government?
Is stripping from CoPs absolute discretion in restricting licenses more government?

You're all fired up because discretion is added to some unknown number of FIDs but not happy about giving 10s of thousands of people with absurdly restricted licenses a chance to fight it, and the possible elimination of blanket restriction policies?

 

[whacko]

So we are being asked to SUPPORT the bill according to GOAL? Does the bold in the letter pasted on GOAL site mean the Chief has to petition the court to deny LTC or FID? What about restrictions? If restrictions from Chiefs go away I can understand why GOAL would ask us to support.........but how is this a WIN if restrictions are still allowed? HELP me understand this........I've been out of the loop all day.



Dear Members: Please contact your legislator today and ask that they support H.4376, released last night by the conference committee.

Never before has our Legislature concurred on a bill concerning gun trafficking and public safety that is supported so widely by so many-including Gun Owners' Action League (GOAL).

You might have heard a lot of things in regard to this bill, to set the record straight; this bill is a net gain for licensed gun owners.

Gains for gun owners include:

Juniors:
• Critical training language correction for juniors corrected which now allows trainers to provide firearms to junior shooters and hunters with parental consent
• Allow junior to apply for their FID card a year early (age 14) and receive their card at 15.

Pepper Spray:
• Person over the age of 18 will no longer need an FID card to purchase pepper spray
• 15-17 year old can still possess – but must have an FID card

FID:
• Chiefs must first petition the court to deny someone his/her FID card.
• Because it is in the courts, it gives GOAL and others the ability to track what Chiefs are doing

Both licenses:
• The term "prohibited person" is now being used for both licenses – instead of "suitable"
• This change in the language provides a much need change in framework around whom is prohibited
• The 90 day grace period - license renewal issue was fixed. Gun owners will now receive a receipt upon renewal, which makes the license valid until the new license is received.

Mental Health:
• Added language so that people who voluntary seek mental health help will not be listed as a prohibited person

Olympic-style Handguns:
• There will be exemptions for the sale of Olympic-style handguns in the Commonwealth
• They were previously not allowed to be sold in the Commonwealth.

Curios and Relic Collectors:
• Collectors can now purchase handguns and firearms that may not comply with the approved firearms roster

Online portal:
• Created online portal for face-to-face transfers
• GOAL stopped a measure that would have ended private sales

LTC:
• We got rid of the Class B License to Carry and made all one LTC license
• We shifted the burden for LTC denials to police chiefs
• Chiefs now have to put denials in writing
• For the first time, gun owners can appeal their LTC restrictions in District Court
• Now the burden of proof is on the police chief to defend the denial or restriction in District Court and in writing

Confiscation:
• We added language that if your firearms get confiscated that the licensing authority shall at that time inform the person in writing of their ability to transfer their firearms to an independent licensed individual

Lost & Stolen Firearm:
• GOAL put in language so that a person who, in good faith, reports their firearm as lost or stolen – this shall not make them considered a prohibited person – period.

Military Veterans:
• We extended the time period a Veteran has to become licensed, or renew their license to 180 days from 90 days.
• We exempted veterans from having to take the mandatory gun safety training classes

Please call your legislator today and ask that they support H.4376.

Sincerely,


Jim Wallace

Executive Director

 

[LoginName]

Ok...The Bill is approved and the Groveller signs it. When does it go into effect?

Are there any "emergency" preambles or whatever that put it into effect immediately?

Or is there a set date after which it becomes valid law?

It was drafted/being voted on as emergency legislation, but some provisions won't take effect until 01/01/15 and 01/01/21...
items such as the web portal for FTF transactions, and elimination of the Class B LTC.