ATF Redefines All Private Sales & Who Has To Have A FFL

[drgrant]

There's no false virtue signaling about it.

They've put more AR15's in the hands of Americans in the few short years they've been in business than all other AR15 manufacturers combined. That's an admirable feat......that no other company has even come close to.

That's cool but it doesn't change that their actions are clearly incongruent with their mission statement because they can't be bothered to do the bare minimums.

The sour grapes from leftist stronghold states is insufferable.

Not from me, lol. I'm not buying anything from them regardless. I just think it's funny how great people think thry are, when they're just another lazy box store.

 

[PappyM3]

There's no false virtue signaling about it.

They've put more AR15's in the hands of Americans in the few short years they've been in business than all other AR15 manufacturers combined. That's an admirable feat......that no other company has even come close to.

The sour grapes from leftist stronghold states is insufferable.

Claiming “Freedom before profit” and then deciding to put profit before freedom is precisely false virtue signaling. By its very definition.

No, they're not scared. They're making multi tens of millions of dollar business decisions. They are weighing the cost/benefit ratio of doing business with MA residents and it's just not worth their bottom line to get involved.
Do you think they don't have the money to throw a hundred lawyers at the state of Massachusetts?
Why would they when they can just say NO?

The gun laws in Massachusetts are NOT their or any other gun dealer's or manufacturers battle.....IT'S YOURS! You resolve it or move out to greener pastures and enjoy a little freedom.

So… they’re scared they might not make as much profit if they have to pay attorneys to sell in MA?

Why would they when they can just say NO?

Umm, maybe because they claim to want to put freedom before profit and proliferate firearms to as many lawful gun owners as possible? Maybe “possible” had a different definition in South Carolina. Maybe it means convenient down there.

 

[whatluck]

anyone who lives in MA and is also gun owner is not very dedicated to freedom.

so you have no leg to stand on IMHO.

 

[drgrant]

anyone who lives in MA and is also gun owner is not very dedicated to freedom.

so you have no leg to stand on IMHO.

Sometimes there's other shit in peoples lives that, for whatever reason, ends up being more important than 2A virtue signaling.

 

[Uzi2]

That's cool but it doesn't change that their actions are clearly incongruent with their mission statement because they can't be bothered to do the bare minimums.



Not from me, lol. I'm not buying anything from them regardless. I just think it's funny how great people think thry are, when they're just another lazy box store.

They are a business......it is not their business to involve themselves with other people's political problems, their business is to make and sell guns. The political problems belong to those who reside in restrictive states.

You not buying from them is fine. Freedom of choice is a wonderful thing. Apparently there are tens of millions of others who choose their products, can afford their products and enjoy them.

I used to hear the same argument with regard to Wolf ammo......yet every single round of Wolf ammo that has ever hit our shores has sold .......because people recognize a product that works to their liking.

 

[PappyM3]

anyone who lives in MA and is also gun owner is not very dedicated to freedom.

so you have no leg to stand on IMHO.

Maybe sticking around to try and put up a fight is indicative of being more dedicated to freedom than cutting load and running?

 

[Uzi2]

Claiming “Freedom before profit” and then deciding to put profit before freedom is precisely false virtue signaling. By its very definition.



So… they’re scared they might not make as much profit if they have to pay attorneys to sell in MA?



Umm, maybe because they claim to want to put freedom before profit and proliferate firearms to as many lawful gun owners as possible? Maybe “possible” had a different definition in South Carolina. Maybe it means convenient down there.

Are you daft?

They've forgone the profit (how ever small it might be) of selling to restricted states......YOUR PROBLEM IS NOT THEIR PROBLEM.

 

[Uzi2]

Maybe sticking around to try and put up a fight is indicative of being more dedicated to freedom than cutting load and running?

OMFG!!!!!

Disregard my previous question......you've answered it clearly.

 

[EJFudd]

They are a business......it is not their business to involve themselves with other people's political problems, their business is to make and sell guns. The political problems belong to those who reside in restrictive states.

Then fine. Retract the wholly dishonest mission statement and let them do as they please. God, how I hate such dishonesty.

 

[Uzi2]

Then fine. Retract the wholly dishonest mission statement and let them do as they please. God, how I hate such dishonesty.

How about the dishonesty that resides in YOU?

You will never change the political climate in Massachusetts.......it's too deeply entrenched. And thinking that you are somehow going to swing the pendulum to your benefit in your lifetime is completely farcical.

Their mission statement is working out just fine. They're putting ARs and AKs in the hands of millions of U.S. citizens every year.
Just because they don't intervene (at their expense mind you, NOT YOURS) into Massachusetts or other restrictive state's politics doesn't mean they are cowards or dishonest.
They run a business.......they're not "on call" political lobbyists!!! Hire your own damned lobbyists and change the political landscape of your own environs and stop blaming outside entities for YOUR situation.......THAT is the height of dishonesty.

Take some responsibility for your own situation......you've got three choices.......you can tolerate it and just sit back and enjoy the suck, you can waste your life away fighting it (and you'll never win).......... or you can move out and live your life in a free state and have some dignity.

 

[PappyM3]

Are you daft?

They've forgone the profit (how ever small it might be) of selling to restricted states......YOUR PROBLEM IS NOT THEIR PROBLEM.

Wait, they’d have profit if they sold to MA? I thought you were saying they had to make the decision to not sell to MA to save their business?

but their business sense and their legal representation's advice should and must take precedence.
That doesn't make them cowards, it makes them smart and keeps them in business.

Or are you just trying to reframe everything to avoid their hypocritical false virtue signaling that you say they don’t do because they’re just a business making business decisions… while ignoring their hypocritical false virtue signaling.

 

[PappyM3]

…And thinking that you are somehow going to swing the pendulum to your benefit in your lifetime is completely farcical.

I’m not that concerned about my lifetime. I’m concerned about my kids, and their kids, and so forth.

Just because they don't intervene (at their expense mind you, NOT YOURS) into Massachusetts or other restrictive state's politics doesn't mean they are cowards or dishonest.

Selling completely unregulated things to people is not intervening in a state’s politics. But blatantly violating their mission statement is dishonest. That’s just a fact. Defend their overall company all you want, but they’re being dishonest as long as they maintain their policies while keeping that mission statement up there. It’s a cold hard fact.

 

[drgrant]

They are a business......it is not their business to involve themselves with other people's political problems, their business is to make and sell guns. The political problems belong to those who reside in restrictive states.

It's not a political problem its a cheap business problem solved by numerous exponentially larger and smaller businesses than PSA. PSA is just lazy. Let's be honest for a minute. If a company like target sports cam legally get ammo in MA then everything below that isn't a big deal. Especially for unregulated products. Maybe 20 yrs ago id feel different but the scales are flipped now.

You not buying from them is fine. Freedom of choice is a wonderful thing. Apparently there are tens of millions of others who choose their products, can afford their products and enjoy them.

Good for them, hopefully they know why their transfers are $100 and their LGS is empty 10 yrs from now with no guns or anmo just tables and paperwork. with the clerk telling them "well go on puds or PSA and just order it. We can't afford to stock it anymore. " well, maybe psa will become a 12 store box store tho so theres that, that probably will still be better than cabelas bps and the other box stores.

I used to hear the same argument with regard to Wolf ammo......yet every single round of Wolf ammo that has ever hit our shores has sold .......because people recognize a product that works to their liking.

Wolf ammo never told anyone they were friends of 2A and pretended, lol. They just imported ammo and sold it. I used it too, a lot of it is dog shit, a lot of it worked perfectly fine. Definitely not the complete bottom of the barrel.

Also i would bet that like 75% of wolf was 545x39, 762x39, 9x19 and 9x19.. with the balance being their piss weak 223 which was arguably the worst of tge lot but it was good enough for rednecks to blow up rocks with. And better than other weird shit like that stupid armscorp brass ammo which was always way worse. All things are relative. Wolf crushed a lot of the other skinflint brands. I will grant them that. I wouldn't turn down some nice wolf or tulammo 9mm at $230 a case thats for sure.

 

[drgrant]

PSA et al =





View: https://youtu.be/7zXWh0N-ZSE?si=FfFDfiIfKQus3SLx


Or for those who don't get it, for the genc gta contingent..... its like this fm station


View: https://youtu.be/8Iv-hZIPUD8?si=oV-XL4lb2g1hCX2A


Or this shitty car

 

[whatluck]

Sometimes there's other shit in peoples lives that, for whatever reason, ends up being more important than 2A virtue signaling.

I think MAs problems extend way beyond the 2a. You're literally paying taxes to elite chickenhawks who want to destroy America.

Also, suburban Americans have a very warped sense of need vs want.

Maybe sticking around to try and put up a fight is indicative of being more dedicated to freedom than cutting load and running?

I used to think that too but got sick of funding the MBTA and competing with illegal immigrant voters.

 

[whatluck]

Good for them, hopefully they know why their transfers are $100 and their LGS is empty 10 yrs from now with no guns or anmo just tables and paperwork. with the clerk telling them "well go on puds or PSA and just order it. We can't afford to stock it anymore. " well, maybe psa will become a 12 store box store tho so theres that, that probably will still be better than cabelas bps and the other box stores.

PSA currently has 10 retail stores.

 

[Uzi2]

I’m not that concerned about my lifetime. I’m concerned about my kids, and their kids, and so forth.



Selling completely unregulated things to people is not intervening in a state’s politics. But blatantly violating their mission statement is dishonest. That’s just a fact. Defend their overall company all you want, but they’re being dishonest as long as they maintain their policies while keeping that mission statement up there. It’s a cold hard fact.

If you're that concerned about your kids and their kids and so forth, the best thing you could do is see to it that they don't grow up and live in an oppressive state that is funded with their own tax dollars to oppress them.

That would be the best and longest lasting gift you could give them all.

If the things you seek are unregulated, then just find another vendor. Why do you insist that PSA meet your demands for those items?
They don't want anything to do with Massachusetts and it's leftist politics, it's the same with a lot of other major vendors too.....the juice just isn't worth the squeeze.

 

[Spartan65]

I am a shitty salesman so I am happy to report I have lost money on every sale I have ever done.

No profit here so…I’m in the clear.

 

[drgrant]

PSA currently has 10 retail stores.

Good, because the public will need them. I may not buy their shit or like them, but they're still better than the other box stores.

 

[Spartan65]

Good, because the public will need them. I may not buy their shit or like them, but they're still better than the other box stores.

Humiliate them about not shipping to MA on social media…

 

[drgrant]

Humiliate them about not shipping to MA on social media…

No need, there are better vendors that take care of new england anyways. I've never needed puds, PSA, f***stickPanet. Botach or any of the other drop shipper skinflint outfits. It is what it is. Businesses are always going to be making policy decisions someone doesn't agree with, at micro and macro levels... especially in this industry. PSA is worse than high-average but that's not really saying much. There are horrible MA dealers that make them look normal in relative terms. I buy products made by other companies like BCM or Aero that don't ship here either...but because of the power of distribution I don't have to "buy the thing" directly from them anyways. (Not to mention the direct availability and price is worse anyways. ) . Most of these companies become irrelevant when you're dealing with good local dealers anyways and you form those relationships you can get what you wanted at reasonable price or even a /great/ price without worrying about any of the drama. One of the things I've learned working in the industry a little bit is that there's a lot of sources for good things it's not that difficult to find ones that aren't objectionable to whatever your sensibilities are. Bitching on the internet doesn't do much but voting with your wallet does a lot more in reality. And the good vendors you do deal with will appreciate your business. Usually when I see a post grossing about one of these people I'm like why don't you just pick up the phone and talk to your guys if you don't have people In your network to get your stuff then that's why the suffering is so great. I realize it sounds old school but it's really rather effective and there's also a certain amount of pleasantness to doing business that way.

 

[Lokdog]

Some stores are scared to sell to Mass, and Maura loves that, then there are other stores like Target Sports USA that tell the Anti Mass turds to pound sand. Seems like the bigger the store the bigger pussies they are.

 

[Uzi2]

No need, there are better vendors that take care of new england anyways. I've never needed puds, PSA, f***stickPanet. Botach or any of the other drop shipper skinflint outfits. It is what it is. Businesses are always going to be making policy decisions someone doesn't agree with, at micro and macro levels... especially in this industry. PSA is worse than high-average but that's not really saying much. There are horrible MA dealers that make them look normal in relative terms. I buy products made by other companies like BCM or Aero that don't ship here either...but because of the power of distribution I don't have to "buy the thing" directly from them anyways. (Not to mention the direct availability and price is worse anyways. ) . Most of these companies become irrelevant when you're dealing with good local dealers anyways and you form those relationships you can get what you wanted at reasonable price or even a /great/ price without worrying about any of the drama. One of the things I've learned working in the industry a little bit is that there's a lot of sources for good things it's not that difficult to find ones that aren't objectionable to whatever your sensibilities are. Bitching on the internet doesn't do much but voting with your wallet does a lot more in reality. And the good vendors you do deal with will appreciate your business. Usually when I see a post grossing about one of these people I'm like why don't you just pick up the phone and talk to your guys if you don't have people In your network to get your stuff then that's why the suffering is so great. I realize it sounds old school but it's really rather effective and there's also a certain amount of pleasantness to doing business that way.

All of the bolded above are true, and the biggest vote with your wallet that can be made is moving out of state and denying the state of your multi thousand dollar annual fee/fine and tax payments........it is not only rather effective, but also extremely satisfying.

 

[42!]

People miss that there is a lot more to it than just saying they want to sell in a state, well some state anyway. In states with less restrictive laws, that are simple to follow, and the locals aren't trying to make their lives difficult. Then yes it's easy. In the others they need to look at the potential market, and hire a lawyer that is an expert in gun law in that state, and likely keep him on retainer for the BS that will come up.
It a large market, like CA, PSA will spend the time, money, and aggravation to sell there. In smaller states, like MA, it's just not worth it.

This isn't just a gun industry thing, any business working across state lines needs to be aware of the cost and benefits associated with those transaction, and will act accordingly.

 

[EJFudd]

Selling completely unregulated things to people is not intervening in a state’s politics. But blatantly violating their mission statement is dishonest. That’s just a fact. Defend their overall company all you want, but they’re being dishonest as long as they maintain their policies while keeping that mission statement up there. It’s a cold hard fact.

Exactly right. Let's remember that they won't even sell a baseball hat to a Ma**h***. If that isn't extreme, senseless, over-the-top fear of Maura, what is???

But again, I emphasize: Their business, their rules... but don't post a wholly dishonest virtue-signalling mission statement. That's what the worst of the dishonest lefties do.

 

[Uzi2]

Exactly right. Let's remember that they won't even sell a baseball hat to a Ma**h***. If that isn't extreme, senseless, over-the-top fear of Maura, what is???

But again, I emphasize: Their business, their rules... but don't post a wholly dishonest virtue-signalling mission statement. That's what the worst of the dishonest lefties do.

How about they just don't need or want your business.....of any kind? Dude, you need to come back to reality!

 

[Lokdog]

How about they just don't need or want your business.....of any kind? Dude, you need to come back to reality!

I couldn't care less, I don't live in Mass, it still doesn't change the fact that what I said is true, PSA are scared little pussies period. You can defend their business practices all you want.

 

[Uzi2]

I couldn't care less, I don't live in Mass, it still doesn't change the fact that what I said is true, PSA are scared little pussies period. You can defend their business practices all you want.

I WILL defend their business practices, and those of any other companies that see selling to MA as a losing business proposition....IT IS, in every aspect.

It has nothing to do with "being scared"............."THE JUICE ISN'T WORTH THE SQUEEZE".

 

[Lokdog]

PSA sucks! Lmfao

 

[Tarsook]

anyone who lives in MA and is also gun owner is not very dedicated to freedom.

so you have no leg to stand on IMHO.

So if you live in MA and live your life regardless of what someone else says and buy what you want and do what you want you're not dedicated to freedom, but if you run away to another state so you can do it legally you are? LOL