House Review of S2284 (formerly SB 2265)

[MikeInMA]

Ok...The Bill is approved and the Groveller signs it. When does it go into effect?

Are there any "emergency" preambles or whatever that put it into effect immediately?

Or is there a set date after which it becomes valid law?

For what it's worth...

SECTION 116. By December 3, 2014, the department of elementary and secondary education, subject to appropriation, shall adopt rules and regulations pursuant to section 95 of chapter 71 of the General Laws requiring that all public school districts shall provide suicide awareness and prevention training. School personnel hired after the effective date of this section but before December 3, 2014 shall obtain the training by March 4, 2015.

SECTION 117. Sections 1, 3, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 26, 28, 31, 32, 37, 39, 40, 41, 43, 44, 45, 46, 49, 51, 52, 54, 57, 58, 59, 60, 64, 65, 67, 73, 74, 76, 77, 79, 80, 84, 88, 91, 92, 94, 100, 101, and 102 shall take effect on January 1, 2015.

SECTION 118. Sections 29 and 30 shall take effect on March 1, 2015; provided, however, that the chief information officer of the commonwealth, in conjunction with the secretary of public safety and security, shall procure any necessary information technology services to implement the real time web portal pursuant to said section 30 by October 1, 2014.

SECTION 119. Section12 shall take effect on April 1, 2015.

SECTION 120. The first report under clause (10) of section 18 ¾ of chapter 6A of the General Laws shall be due not later than March 1, 2016.

SECTION 121. Section 34 is hereby repealed.

SECTION 122. Sections 24, 25, 34, 42, 47, 48, 50, 53, 55, 61, 62, 63, 66, 71, and 75 shall take effect on January 1, 2021.

 

[Admin]

Is removing the ltc-b more government?

And removing shall issue FID? You tell me

 

[pastera]

So let's see: 90+15+75 days from applying, is that right? 180 days?

I believe it is 90 total but need to study it further.
However, if a COP did wait 90 days to ask the court, then attempted to stall the process for the max time I would think the judge would have a serious problem with it.

 

[delgrifith]

So 4 hours to go for this to get passed on both the house and senate? I can't see this thing just die after all the time and publicity put into it.


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[lagrangian]

In the part of GOAL's letter talking about LTCs, it said:

• We shifted the burden for LTC denials to police chiefs
• Chiefs now have to put denials in writing
• For the first time, gun owners can appeal their LTC restrictions in District Court
• Now the burden of proof is on the police chief to defend the denial or restriction in District Court and in writing

How does this appeal thing differ from what currently exists for LTCs? (I'm not claiming it doesn't differ -- I just don't know enough about the current process to know how it differs)? Also, does the text of the actual bill give any indication if this appeal is de novo or not?

 

[pastera]

So 4 hours to go for this to get passed on both the house and senate? I can't see this thing just die after all the time and publicity put into it.


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Not going to happen.

All the votes are already tallied, they just need a few minutes to go through the formalities.

 

[StevieP]

FID:
• Chiefs must first petition the court to deny someone his/her FID card.
• Because it is in the courts, it gives GOAL and others the ability to track what Chiefs are doing


LTC:
• We got rid of the Class B License to Carry and made all one LTC license
• We shifted the burden for LTC denials to police chiefs
• Chiefs now have to put denials in writing
• For the first time, gun owners can appeal their LTC restrictions in District Court
• Now the burden of proof is on the police chief to defend the denial or restriction in District Court and in writing

Anyone know the answer here???

Why are these processes different from each other? Given a choice, I'd prefer the "FID process" to the LTC version.

 

[delgrifith]

You know what would simplify everything and help the tax paying law abiding citizen gun owner... Shall issue and no AWB, there that is simple.


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[Quiet]

MORE government is NEVER the answer.

I had added a little more to that post

Is removing the ltc-b more government?
Is stripping from CoPs absolute discretion in restricting licenses more government?

You're all fired up because discretion is added to some unknown number of FIDs but not happy about giving 10s of thousands of people with absurdly restricted licenses a chance to fight it, and the possible elimination of blanket restriction policies?

And removing shall issue FID? You tell me

I told you. :-D lol

FFS Derek, I know you're an intelligent guy. ;-) It's not all bad. Look around you and look at who is endorsing it and for what reasons and reevaluate your position.

 

[cstockwell]

FID:
• Chiefs must first petition the court to deny someone his/her FID card.
• Because it is in the courts, it gives GOAL and others the ability to track what Chiefs are doing

This is bullshit plain and simple. Courts will rubber stamp the petitions for denial in this state. Many chiefs have hard-ons knowing they will be able to deny someone their 2nd amendment right without being a federally prohibited person. There shouldn't be a license to own a firearm plain and simple.

 

[delgrifith]

Not going to happen.

All the votes are already tallied, they just need a few minutes to go through the formalities.

That's what I'm saying, this thing isn't going to just die


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[Bob P]

You know what would simplify everything and help the tax paying law abiding citizen gun owner... Shall issue and no AWB, there that is simple.


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Yes it would.

 

[Tango680]

I would really be surprised if it didn't get voted on. The papers are all reporting that this was a great compromise and a "model" for the nation....i can't imagine the legislature isn't foaming at the mouth to push this through to look like they accomplished something. Imagine the headlines....gun owners and citizens for safety come up with common sense solutions.....no way they can resist

 

[LoginName]

This is bullshit plain and simple. Courts will rubber stamp the petitions for denial in this state.

I'm hoping they do if it comes down to it... the more bogus denials the better to work in our favor when this is presented
before the federal court system.

 

[Coyote33]

Olympic-style Handguns:
• There will be exemptions for the sale of Olympic-style handguns in the Commonwealth
• They were previously not allowed to be sold in the Commonwealth.

This is what, maybe 10-20 guns in the entire commonwealth total?

Online portal:
• Created online portal for face-to-face transfers
• GOAL stopped a measure that would have ended private sales

I agree I see no GAIN? Where is the Gain, unless you mean if Linsky got all he wanted as compared to what we are getting, still that is not a gain.

Instead of Suitable the wording is Prohibited Person - So do you really think a Chief gives a sh*T what words you use?
We gave up the SHALL ISSUE FID, so Chiefs have to petition the court, so what they are paid by the hour plus now they are MAY Issue
We have pepper spray for over 18...frankly this is not a gain, it was an sh*t law to begin with, so we gained by not having sh*t?
Those seeking mental health help wont be on the list of Prohibited Persons...uhhh no sh*t, if someone goes in for example because their wife died in an accident or in a divorce or under extreme stress, they shoulnt be on the list anyway...Is there not a HIPAA privacy law anyway..for a good reason
Olympic style guns off the dumb-ass list, so what, the list shouldnt exist to begin with, NO gain here
Online portal for face to face...mmmm FA10 form is online, we do transfers face to face to confirm licenses...
Ok so they stopped a measure to end private sales marginal gain, I would have done it thru an FFL anyway if need be.
LTC denials have to be in writing, pretty sure they were before. They have to defend it in court, so they show up and say "This person has a bad temper,

They should have just done away with FA-10's completely. THAT is compromise! The list should go as well. Remember, the AG took power away from the legislature and gave it to themselves in 1998.

1 year was eliminated no?

yes, a long time back.

THIS year.

 

[Admin]

I told you. :-D lol

FFS Derek, I know you're an intelligent guy. ;-) It's not all bad. Look around you and look at who is endorsing it and for what reasons and reevaluate your position.

It's wrong plain and simple and I dont GAF when shall issue FID will be beat in court. It will take YEARS and THOUSANDS of dollars to do so, while good people get screwed so you call can say "Well it could have been worse, I have my LTC so screw you guys...."

Yeah dude I dont need to reevaluate shit.

 

[rchap36]

It's wrong plain and simple and I dont GAF when it will shall issue FID will be beat in court. It will take YEARS and THOUSANDS of dollars to do so, while good people get screwed so you call can say "Well it could have been worse, I have my LTC so screw you guys...."

Yeah dude I dont need to reevaluate shit.

This

 

[cstockwell]

It's wrong plain and simple and I dont GAF when it will shall issue FID will be beat in court. It will take YEARS and THOUSANDS of dollars to do so, while good people get screwed so you call can say "Well it could have been worse, I have my LTC so screw you guys...."

Yeah dude I dont need to reevaluate shit.

Bingo. We can spend our own money to fight for something that will take a long time and we may win. Guess what...we are paying to fight it AND to defend it because our tax dollars pay for them to fight us in courts...lets all enjoy that screwing some more.

 

[92G]

It's wrong plain and simple and I dont GAF when it will shall issue FID will be beat in court. It will take YEARS and THOUSANDS of dollars to do so, while good people get screwed so you call can say "Well it could have been worse, I have my LTC so screw you guys...."

Yeah dude I dont need to reevaluate shit.

you are both right....there is no easy answer to this legislation.

we are being forced to choose between a shit pie or a shit sandwich.....the argument can go either way.

I look at this current bill as a small shit sandwich with some decent french fries and soda.

 

[LoginName]

This is what, maybe 10-20 guns in the entire commonwealth total?

You mean you don't own one of these (or something similar)?







Shame on you!

 

[rchap36]

1998

Wallace, of the Gun Owners Action League, said his group also opposes both federal and state bans on principle, but realizes that the compromise approved yesterday is the best he can hope for in a state where gun-control measures are especially strong.

Senator Richard T. Moore, an Uxbridge Democrat who received an A+ rating from the Gun Owners Action League, said the bill will help lawful gun owners.

''There weren't the votes to repeal it, certainly," Moore said. ''I felt the votes were there to continue the ban, and if we're going to continue it, we want to make sure it's one that doesn't seriously affect those who are willing to follow the law."

Barrios said he is disappointed that the final measure does not scrap a provision that allows gun dealers to continue to sell semiautomatic weapons purchased prior to 1994. His original bill would have eliminated that loophole. Still, he believes that preserving the status quo, at least in Massachusetts, is a significant accomplishment.

''It was hard for people in 1998 to imagine that despite huge support from the American public for the weapons ban, the Republicans in Congress and the president, in alliance with the NRA, would succeed in scuttling this important public safety legislation," he said.

Barrios described the new state law as the result of ''an uncomfortable alliance which serves the purposes of both sides, giving them something that is a priority without stepping on basic principles."

''I think it's a great compromise," said John Rosenthal, chairman of Massachusetts-based Stop Handgun Violence.

 

[Lank]

Probably the abuse of deer in the fall is bothering their masters at the Humane Society.

The only abuse of deer I see in MA are carcasess on rt 2. There is not enough hunting HEAAAHHHH

 

[Quiet]

It's wrong plain and simple and I dont GAF when it will shall issue FID will be beat in court. It will take YEARS and THOUSANDS of dollars to do so, while good people get screwed so you call can say "Well it could have been worse, I have my LTC so screw you guys...."

Yeah dude I dont need to reevaluate shit.

10s of thousands of guys (and gals) are screwed now with crippled LTCs. How many will be denied FIDs under this scheme? 10s of thousands or a handful? And how many of those will be won at the hearing?
There are only what, 30,000 FIDs in total, IIRC? And most of those are probably Old Geezers who just want their shotty. We have no clue of how many denials there might be. You could be right and there will be some massive number of revocations starting tomorrow, or whenever it takes effect. I really doubt it.

It's not about "screw them, I've got mine" at all. It's about "Look what we may have just done for Boston, Cambridge, Brookline, Worcester and Newton"

Oh yeah... and we got rid of the FID for pepper spray for adults. Is that worthless too?

C'mon. I know parts really suck, but we're actually making progress. It's not a straight line.

 

[Admin]

C'mon. I know parts really suck, but we're actually making progress. It's not a straight line.

If that makes you sleep at night go with it.

 

[Lank]

Front towards enemy

 

[Bill Katt]

The pepper spray thing is about the only good thing in this shit effing bill.

 

[wmass]

It's wrong plain and simple and I dont GAF when shall issue FID will be beat in court. It will take YEARS and THOUSANDS of dollars to do so, while good people get screwed so you call can say "Well it could have been worse, I have my LTC so screw you guys...."

Yeah dude I dont need to reevaluate shit.

That about sums it up.

 

[Quiet]

If that makes you sleep at night go with it.

I do sleep with these laws. I don't get to go home to a free state. This is progress. For the first time in my lifetime, we made actual progress.

 

[Reptile]

Still no vote?

Maybe the antis want to quash this so they can propose worse things next year.

Remember, next year their will not be powerful pro 2a members in the legislature.

They will be able to pass anything without strong 2a folks to counter them.

 

[92G]

10s of thousands of guys (and gals) are screwed now with crippled LTCs. How many will be denied FIDs under this scheme? 10s of thousands or a handful? And how many of those will be won at the hearing?
There are only what, 30,000 FIDs in total, IIRC? And most of those are probably Old Geezers who just want their shotty. We have no clue of how many denials there might be. You could be right and there will be some massive number of revocations starting tomorrow, or whenever it takes effect. I really doubt it.

It's not about "screw them, I've got mine" at all. It's about "Look what we may have just done for Boston, Cambridge, Brookline, Worcester and Newton"

Oh yeah... and we got rid of the FID for pepper spray for adults. Is that worthless too?

C'mon. I know parts really suck, but we're actually making progress. It's not a straight line.

^^this
there are positive aspects of S2284, which may not be present in the next version if it doesn't get passed.
the objections to FID suitability are based primarily on principle and not reality, which is that the LTC-A is still may-issue and thus MA is a may-issue state.

arguing about the FID is quite myopic when one considers the plethora of infringements already in place....and S2284 indeed addresses some of those infringments in a positive manner.