House Review of S2284 (formerly SB 2265)

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mjp said:
Don't give them ideas.... I'm actually surprised that no one has tried to sneak in school records somewhere. A few years ago I would have thought the notion insane, but look at all the mental Heath crap they have talked about. Who the hell would ever go in for mental health treatment knowing some would want to deny them their rights for doing so. Nevertheless we now know that there are clearly plenty of morons who would actually push for laws that would create such a situation.

As long as people stick their head in the sand without looking at the big picture, things can only get worse. Mass isn't actually as moon batty as some states though (don't misread that it's plenty moon batty) and I don't think this is entirely inevitable (although probable). To have any hope we need to do a better job of clarifying the picture. In 1975 for example the media din't have an agenda like they do today. The question is how to point out real logic to the masses when every time someone tries it's drowned out it in buzzing noise?
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The plan is to disarm us one way or another. The mental health stuff is a door you could drive a truck through. What is that? You believe in the Constitution? And, gulp, a BALANCED budget?! You are one of those right-wing, gun nut, extremists and are super dangerous! Gun permit, DENIED!

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sevenMMmag said:
Your chief can yank your license the first time you get your guns stolen as it stands currently
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As it stands, your chief can yank your LTC if (s)he doesn't like the way you look or if you dated her/his daughter!
 
gunclinger said:
And then renew you politely in 5 years. And then not think you are a PoS everytime he drives by your house. And then not be a general dick to you and you family whenever you have an encounter (good or bad) with the police.

The point of a "right", legislators, is that you can live confidently knowing YOU have the upper hand over the gov in some key instances. Like walking in to the PD to at least get an FID and not feel like you can be pushed around.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Who is to say that every 5 years the COP will not deem you unsuitable. Force you to fight it in court every time because it looks like it could take 150-200 days to get your license..
 
So GOAL is in favor of supporting this re-worked piece of garbage?

If ever anyone doubted why they should immediately stop giving money to this useless org and donate to Comm2A instead; this is it.

A 'net gain' for gun owners?!! That means it's a loss. A flat-out loss. Now stop begging for cash. You failed. Again.
 
glide said:
So GOAL is in favor of supporting this re-worked piece of garbage?

If ever anyone doubted why they should immediately stop giving money to this useless org and donate to Comm2A instead; this is it.

A 'net gain' for gun owners?!! That means it's a loss. A flat-out loss. Now stop begging for cash. You failed. Again.
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This is not a Comm2A vs GOAL debate. they server very different purposes. Without thier combined efforts we are totally sunk. Thing would have been much worse (IMHO) if GOAL had not been doing what they are doing. And Comm2A's job would be much harder.
 
GOAL is not responsible for the collective ignorance of beacon hill, and I find it disturbing that some NESer's find anything short of complete attack to be some type of weakness on behalf of GOAL.

It is pretty clear that GOAL was at least a factor in the drafting of this bill into something at least acceptable, and in many ways good for us. It's important to look at big picture, not winning a single battle and losing the war. This is a long process and I believe GOAL was very helpful here.

Those of you who feel compelled to criticize GOAL should either 1) find a way to be grateful or 2) start your own pro-2A organization and actually help.
 
derek said:
Tell that to the 18 year old kid that got in one too many fights in high school and wants to hunt ducks or shoot trap when he comes home on leave.
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PLEASE let me know when this happens, and we can gather a bunch of protesters outside the station and alert the news organizations and solicit some comm2a donations.Then our kid on leave can further defend the Constitution!

Beansie said:
I missed this part of the bill. Where is this?

And any idea if this is retro to someone still in their "temp" restriction period?
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To answer your first question, it may be a side effect of the ability to challenge restrictions, and sort of to your second question. This sets up a fight but I think the law allows you to challenge restrictions at any time, so YOU might be the one to win that fight for us. Doesn't that make you at least grin if not smile?
 
Massachusetts is my home. I'm a realist, not an optimist. This bill is better than I expected considering the playing field. Regardless, does anyone know the part of the bill about c&r holders?
 
Fattman said:
Who is to say that every 5 years the COP will not deem you unsuitable. Force you to fight it in court every time because it looks like it could take 150-200 days to get your license..
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Court: "Anything change in the last 5 years?
No?
License granted."

CoP don't like to get slapped down. They avoid it like the plague.
 
gunclinger said:
Independent take on GOAL's Stockholm Syndrome: http://www.redmassgroup.com/diary/18366/

The NRA has to take a stand against this. They can't support it here for fear the concept could spread to other states.

We are certainly not getting a great deal. However, due to the unique circumstances here in Mass it may not be the worst thing that could happen either. Time will tell. One thing for sure, we will probably be fighting these battles for the rest of our lives as long as we live in Massachusetts.
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Nation On Fire said:
Massachusetts is my home. I'm a realist, not an optimist. This bill is better than I expected considering the playing field. Regardless, does anyone know the part of the bill about c&r holders?
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I wrote that part for Sen Timilty, basically it was in case we lost FTF and needed to go through a dealer, it also says that the previously owned in Mass no longer applies to C&R holders for C&R guns when purchased through an 01FFL, FTF the list and pre-owned weren't in force.
This is a small win. You can buy that German Luger from WW2 on Gunbroker and have it sent to a dealer if the seller insists
 
Quiet said:
Court: "Anything change in the last 5 years?
No?
License granted."

CoP don't like to get slapped down. They avoid it like the plague.
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Really Gemme been slapped more times then a hooker on party night and he keeps going
 
LoginName said:
And how many of those events resonated with people back then?

With the exception of Kent State and Jackson Mississippi (which were government actions), how aware, or informed,

was the public at the time those events took place?
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For all except for maybe two of them, they don't even meet the traditional definition of a "school shooting" (defined as a mass shooting at a school where targets aren't predetermined). Most of those are targeted murders/attempted murders, where if they happened anywhere except for a school, 99% of the population wouldn't even have cared.
 
One gun per month - No
Liability insurance - No
7 round magazine - No
Mandatory storage at a gun club - No
25% sales tax on firearms and ammo - No
BS bans like CT or NY - No

Like another poster said, this isn't Texas. Considering the alternatives, we made out fairly well.
 
glide said:
So GOAL is in favor of supporting this re-worked piece of garbage?

If ever anyone doubted why they should immediately stop giving money to this useless org and donate to Comm2A instead; this is it.

A 'net gain' for gun owners?!! That means it's a loss. A flat-out loss. Now stop begging for cash. You failed. Again.
Click to expand...


I agree I see no GAIN? Where is the Gain, unless you mean if Linsky got all he wanted as compared to what we are getting, still that is not a gain.

Instead of Suitable the wording is Prohibited Person - So do you really think a Chief gives a sh*T what words you use?
We gave up the SHALL ISSUE FID, so Chiefs have to petition the court, so what they are paid by the hour plus now they are MAY Issue
We have pepper spray for over 18...frankly this is not a gain, it was an sh*t law to begin with, so we gained by not having sh*t?
Those seeking mental health help wont be on the list of Prohibited Persons...uhhh no sh*t, if someone goes in for example because their wife died in an accident or in a divorce or under extreme stress, they shoulnt be on the list anyway...Is there not a HIPAA privacy law anyway..for a good reason
Olympic style guns off the dumb-ass list, so what, the list shouldnt exist to begin with, NO gain here
Online portal for face to face...mmmmFA10 form is online, we do transfers face to face to confirm licenses...
Ok so they stopped a measure to end private sales marginal gain, I would have done it thru an FFL anyway if need be.
LTC denials have to be in writing, pretty sure they were before. They have to defend it in court, so they show up and say "This person has a bad temper, seems to be have the tendency to fly off the handle, blah blah blah...left wing judge says Youre Right Chiefy!!
A Net Gain, NO but rather instead of having it shoved up your backside with your head in a headlock, they took you to dinner before that takes place...

sarcasm is strong today[crying]
 
StevieP said:
Why are these processes different from each other?
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In the case of an FID, in order to deny it, the CoP MUST go to court to have it denied.

In the case of the LTC, the CoP MUST be able to put in writing all denials and RESTRICTIONS. He/she must have articulable reasons to restrict or deny anyone. This means places like Lowell who restrict 'everyone' except those 'special' persons will have to have an articulable reason to restrict the 40 year old woman with no record. And that, is a win because the CoP will lose in court. But once denied or restricted it will be up to the LTC applicant to bring it to court.
 
Mike said:
One gun per month - No
Liability insurance - No
7 round magazine - No
Mandatory storage at a gun club - No
25% sales tax on firearms and ammo - No
BS bans like CT or NY - No

Like another poster said, this isn't Texas. Considering the alternatives, we made out fairly well.
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But isnt that like saying

No guns for anyone : No
No guns for people who where Mossy Oak more than 5 days a week : No
No guns for people who spoke to a doctor and said they felt stressed : No
No mandatory anal searches for LTC holders and pulled over by the Police : No

Looking at it from "How bad it could have been" is not the viewpoint I am looking at this with, rather what I look at what we wanted and did not get, thus a Loss not a gain. IMHO
 
Squib308 said:
GOAL is not responsible for the collective ignorance of beacon hill, and I find it disturbing that some NESer's find anything short of complete attack to be some type of weakness on behalf of GOAL.

It is pretty clear that GOAL was at least a factor in the drafting of this bill into something at least acceptable, and in many ways good for us. It's important to look at big picture, not winning a single battle and losing the war. This is a long process and I believe GOAL was very helpful here.

Those of you who feel compelled to criticize GOAL should either 1) find a way to be grateful or 2) start your own pro-2A organization and actually help.
Click to expand...

Exactly true. GOAL and it's members, many via NES, have done a remarkable job of navigating this minefield. We've come out much better off than we had any reason to hope last year when Speaker DeLeo started on this crusade. We did dodge the bullet. We just didn't get to fire back.

As to "start your own pro-2A organization and actually help." Have at it and see how easy it is. I'll be happy to give pointers to anyone who thinks they can do better.
 
Mike said:
One gun per month - No
Liability insurance - No
7 round magazine - No
Mandatory storage at a gun club - No
25% sales tax on firearms and ammo - No
BS bans like CT or NY - No

Like another poster said, this isn't Texas. Considering the alternatives, we made out fairly well.
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Enhanced training certification by state police setting standards
Live fire training

******** 1 year misdemeanor disqualification **********
 
Good bill ??...Bad bill??....It's only one with more to come in the future...all it takes is one more mass shooting and they'll be at this shit again and again....Unless there is a change to this miserable one party State the war will never be over.....slowly but surely our rights are being chipped way in this State......the only way for change is at the ballot box and that doesn't look to bright as of now........just my 2 cents..
 
Knuckle Dragger said:
As to "start your own pro-2A organization and actually help." Have at it and see how easy it is. I'll be happy to give pointers to anyone who thinks they can do better.
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Getting most club members to simply listen is near impossible.
At my club if it's not in an NRA announcement, it didn't happen.
 
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