I thought of that as well Exodious, and then I thought well obviously due to this bill being held up there are a lot of 2a supporters out there, maybe more than we realize.
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House Review of S2284 (formerly SB 2265)
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I thought of that as well Exodious, and then I thought well obviously due to this bill being held up there are a lot of 2a supporters out there, maybe more than we realize.
Even if not in Ma. people should be helping Comm2A. This anti bullshit is like a virus and will spread if not eradicated.
******
That's for sure.
hv55maxx
NES Member
Agreed. I hear everyone saying that it's a meatball for Comm2A to smash out of the park but they can't do it without funding. Even $10 a month will help. If you aren't supporting them then you really don't care about your gun rights (and yes I am monthly and also chip in here and there)
That's because our side is engaged and cares about the issue. If give the average low information voter a chance to vote against the evil gun lobby they will, but they won't put in the effort of contacting legislators over details of a bill like we will.
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And then renew you politely in 5 years. And then not think you are a PoS everytime he drives by your house. And then not be a general dick to you and you family whenever you have an encounter (good or bad) with the police.
The point of a "right", legislators, is that you can live confidently knowing YOU have the upper hand over the gov in some key instances. Like walking in to the PD to at least get an FID and not feel like you can be pushed around.
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Senates doing something
You still need a denial from the right plaintiff. I do not think they can challenge it on its face until the issue is ripe (i.e., we have an actual plaintiff denied and harmed). CLO's, if they are smart, would only use this for the worst reprobates. That said, even then, if the are not a PP I think it still must fail as it really is too subjective. If they used terms like "credible threat to cause injury to the public" they would have been on better ground and a "preponderances of evidence" standard is not likely going to work for a fundamental right.
Whutmeworry
NES Member
I'm not so sure. Consider that MA voters actually VOTED back in 1975 on a ballot initiative that would've banned handguns outright. The initiative went down in flames by something like a 3 to 1 margin. Back then gun control was looked upon far more favorably not just in MA but nation-wide. I think even the average non-gun owning voter knew how ridiculous this laws in MA already are they'd vote at least as lop-sidedly as they did back then.
Ben Cartwright SASS
NES Member
Has either house voted yet?
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Senate is talking about water...http://masslegislature.tv/?l=sen_video
But in 1975 MA was a lot less moonbatty than it is now. (And remember that Reagan won MA in 1980 and 1984 (at least according to Wikipedia)). If it came to a ballot question these days I think such a ban would pass easily.
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Quiet
Banned
If the top cop in your town has denied you an FID on suitability grounds, he already thinks of you as scum.
StevieP
NES Member
I don't. Heller and McDonald decisions prevent banning guns "in common use."
nfw would a handgun (or any other xxxgun) bill pass.
Actually, we'd like to NOT have to sue anyone. We're only here by necessity. In my fantasy world the legislature, perhaps with the help of GOAL, would realize their mistakes, fix all of our gun laws and totally obliterate Comm2A's reason to exist. But then again, I also dream about unicorns shitting skittles on rainbow clouds.
High compared to what it is now, but not as high as it needs to be.
Bottom line is that this bill needs to pass now as it is. That gives us all the opportunity to reset the clock and know what we're dealing with starting in January. There's a fair amount to like (perhaps not love) in this bill and we've done a really great job of derailing the worst of it. Time to get it over with and move on.
They also had no Newtown/Aurora/Columbine cards to play back then.
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WTF is a bill on organ retention
yanici
NES Member
Very poetic. I had good chuckle picturing those unicorns in my brain. LOL
Don't confuse "voters would approve it" with "courts would enforce it". I agree that the courts would not enforce it. But IMHO the current MA electorate absolutely would vote in favor of it, and by a good margin.
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So are there any other changes from the senate bill outside of suitability? It seems the entire process in the committee was all about suitability.
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School shootings 1970–1975, according to Wikipedia:
- January 5, 1970: Washington, DC, Tyrone Perry, 15, was shot to death at Hine Junior High School.[SUP][198][/SUP]
- May 4, 1970: Kent, Ohio, During protests of the Vietnam War on the college Campus of Kent State University, Armed National Guard Soldiers opened fire on unarmed students killing four people.[SUP][199][/SUP]
- May 15, 1970: Jackson, Mississippi, One student was killed and twelve others injured when police open fired on students gathered to protest the military presence in Cambodia
- November 8, 1971: Grove, Oklahoma, School custodian, Jim "James" Underwood brought a .22 caliber revolver to school hidden in a brown paper bag. School principal, T. J. Melton, 49, was shot in the left shoulder, left ear and in the top of his head, according to published reports. He died around 9 a.m. and Underwood was charged the next day with first-degree murder.[SUP][202][/SUP]
- November 11, 1971: Spokane, Washington, Former MIT student Larry J. Harmon, 21, entered St. Aloysius Roman Catholic Church on the Gonzaga University campus armed with a .22 caliber rifle. Harmon killed the caretaker, 68-year-old Hilary Kunz, and upon emerging from the church, wounded four more people before police officers shot and killed him. Harmon was described by his father as a religious fanatic who believed that he had seen the devil and that Christ was an imposter.[SUP][203][/SUP]
- January 5, 1972: Washington, DC, Fifth-grade teacher Margaret Brooks, 57, was shot to death in front of her students by her estranged husband James A. Brooks.[SUP][204][/SUP]
- February 26, 1973: Richmond, Virginia, Wayne Phillips, 17, was shot to death when he was caught between two youths who were fighting in the hallway of Armstrong High School.[SUP][205][/SUP]
- October 1, 1973: Elmwood Park, Illinois, Elmwood Park Community High School student Cynthia Schulze was shot and killed in the hallway between classes by student William Rossi, with whom she was probably not acquainted. Rossi then ran out of the school and shot himself to death in an alley nearby.[SUP][206][/SUP]
- January 17, 1974: Chicago, Illinois, Elementary school principal Rudolph Jezek, Jr., 52, was shot to death in his office by Steven Guy, 14, a former student said to be angry at being transferred from the school to a social adjustment center.[SUP][207][/SUP]
- March 22, 1974: Brownstown, Indiana, Jessie Blevins, 48, athletic director at Brownstown Central High School, was shot to death in the school parking lot by a 17-year-old student.[SUP][208][/SUP]
- December 30, 1974: Olean, New York, Regents scholar Anthony Barbaro, 17, armed with a rifle and shotgun, kills three adults and wounds 11 others at his high school, which was closed for the Christmas holiday. Barbaro was reportedly a loner who kept a diary describing several "battle plans" for his attack on the school.[SUP][209][/SUP][SUP][210][/SUP]
- February 18, 1975: Marist College, Poughkeepsie, New York, Marist College student Shelley Lynn Sperling was shot and killed by a scorned suitor, Louis o. Acevedo, in the Marist College cafeteria.[SUP][211][/SUP]
- September 11, 1975: Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, U.S. Grant High School student Randy Truitt was shot and killed by James Briggs at the school, leaving several others injured.[SUP][212][/SUP]
goodzilla
NES Member
Taste the rainbow.
Palladin
NES Member
find the gold!
Quiet
Banned
AGREED.AGREED.
Yes, I also agree. There is a lot to like, I don't want to go retyoing the list of all the things that have been to our benefit in this TRULY compromise bill
Yes there are things in a compromise that we don't like, even hate. That is what a compromise is. Nobody loves it.
Yes we lost ground on two things: The Chiefs can and have to prove someone unsuitable to deny an FID, and we got universal background checks.
We already had universal background checks, now they are juuuuust slightly more real-time. On the plus side, the web portal will completely eliminate any possibility of a question whether or not we checked a license, or if the license belonged to the person presenting it. I don't know about your ltc, but my picture is TINY and looks nothing like me at all.
As far as FID going may issue, there *may* be long term benefits to it.
We gained ground in so many areas. I believe we have eliminated CoP blanket policies on restrictions. How much more than that alone could we ever expect in MA? We got rid of the LTC-B. We got better in licensing delay problems. We got school resource officers which , may I remind everyone, wad the NRA's main thrust after Newtown, ridiculed by most of the moonbats in this hell hole state.
And there's more.
For Pete's sake folks, look at the big picture. Please.
And how much media play did those get at the time? Nothing like Aurora and Newtown got. Also, most of those you listed were single-to-a-few deaths. Aurora was 12 dead and 70 injured. Newtown was 26 dead, 20 of which were children. And in the internet and 24x7 ratings-obsessed news channel era.
Look, I don't like peoples' attitudes in MA any more than you do. But a spade's a spade and I have no faith that the current MA electorate would care at all about 2nd Amendment rights. Hell, I bet if there was a question on the statewide ballot like "To instruct our US representative and senators to file a Constitutional amendment repealing the 2nd Amendment", it would pass and pass easily.
Coming back to the topic, a lot of things about this bill suck. I think everyone here would agree with that. But it passing will take the pressure off the legislature to Do Something(tm) and they likely will not revisit the area for several years, by which time there will hopefully be more favorable federal court decisions on the books. If the bill fails the pressure to Do Something(tm) will build and then with a new governor, new AG, and some people on our side having retired, whatever comes out of that will be worse, perhaps a lot worse. And the legislature will approve that bad bill easily, because see above.
This. There's a bunch of "this is better than we have now" such as the potential ending of red towns. Having chiefs on the record for reason for denials and an actual process is huge. No more denied just because the chief doesn't think anybody should have a gun.
The major "worse" stuff is FID suitability and I don't see a shall-issue FID as upholding anybody's rights when they are denied an LTC since they cannot own pistols. Shall-issue FIDs are like shall-issue free speech zones - going to may issue free-speech zones is worse but if you're stuck in a free-speech zone to start with you're already being denied your rights. Letting LEOs ignore the AWB is a hole in the AWB we can exploit in the future. Let them hang themselves with their own rope.
Tell that to the 18 year old kid that got in one too many fights in high school and wants to hunt ducks or shoot trap when he comes home on leave.
Anyone know, with our new "Universal Background Check" system, if the 4 limit p/y remains?
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