Hopkinton chief pulls 3 officers' LTCs

JRT

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No sir you did not. But I am amazed at your ability to read a blurb of a story and conclude that three individuals in it are shitheads and the one denying their 2A rights is A ok.
It's just department political bullshit. It's been going on in small town police departments for long before you and will be going on when you are gone. There are no winner, just losers. Sometimes it's not as obvious as the words you read, this isn't about 2A rights, this is a dick measuring contest.
 

Mark from MA

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It's good that Hopkinton hired a police chief who's also a medical doctor who can interpret mental health diagnoses. Very special combo of skills.
Chief is not diagnosing or interpreting. That has been done by the officers doctors and their claim of disability due to PTSD.

He is just agreeing with the diagnosis of PTSD and views them as a danger to have firearms. Chiefs have discretionary power to do that. Im not saying I like it, but MA law is just that.

If they dont like that they can go to court and try and argue they dont have PTSD and are suitable......but.....wait....oh. They might have to go back to work??? Darn.

Cant have it both ways.
 
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enbloc

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OK, I'll be the oddball.

Not only do I think the cops should get their licenses back, but that no one should need a license for a God-Given, Constitutionally approved Right. NO ONE.
People that do something criminal with a gun like rob, rape, or kill, may be shot in the act. Period. Law of the jungle, baby.

This line right here is total bullshit:

“You are no longer deemed suitable as a result of post-traumatic stress related to injuries incurred while on duty,” the chief wrote

And leaves the door open for pulling the licenses of Combat Veterans, and anyone else deemed "Not Suitable" which can be very capricious.


~Matt
 

Asaltweapon

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OK, I'll be the oddball.

Not only do I think the cops should get their licenses back, but that no one should need a license for a God-Given, Constitutionally approved Right. NO ONE.
People that do something criminal with a gun like rob, rape, or kill, may be shot in the act. Period. Law of the jungle, baby.

This line right here is total bullshit:

“You are no longer deemed suitable as a result of post-traumatic stress related to injuries incurred while on duty,” the chief wrote

And leaves the door open for pulling the licenses of Combat Veterans, and anyone else deemed "Not Suitable" which can be very capricious.


~Matt
This all reminds me of Red Flags Laws but for the guys in blue.
 

enbloc

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The Chief is using this as punitive punishment, and he will use it in the near future to pull more LTC's.
I have crystal balls...

 
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Without more details it's really impossible to know what's going on. Sometimes the employee wants to return to work but it's the department or their MD that is holding it up. Sometimes the opposite. Sometimes games are played to stay on disabled status but still employed for certain benefit reasons. Either way if you sign up for ps jobs expect to see blood guts and brains and allthough a small chance they could be one of your friends. Personally I feel that if you are disabled maybe you could be offered some other municipal job that your particular disability would not prevent you from performing and then you can still get paid.
 
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OK, I'll be the oddball.

Not only do I think the cops should get their licenses back, but that no one should need a license for a God-Given, Constitutionally approved Right. NO ONE.
People that do something criminal with a gun like rob, rape, or kill, may be shot in the act. Period. Law of the jungle, baby.

This line right here is total bullshit:

“You are no longer deemed suitable as a result of post-traumatic stress related to injuries incurred while on duty,” the chief wrote

And leaves the door open for pulling the licenses of Combat Veterans, and anyone else deemed "Not Suitable" which can be very capricious.


~Matt
This.

If in this state, a license to carry was required only to carry, then, maybe, this would fly, You could argue that someone with PTSD might not be suitable to wander around in public with a firearm. You could also argue that it might not matter based on the symptoms.

Since in this state a license is required to simply possess a firearm or ammunition, this should fail and fail hard. PTSD could easily render someone unsuitable for the duties of police officer but have nothing to do with creating a danger to themselves or others.

Let's say that because of something that happened on the job, these officers are experiencing insomnia, bad dreams, they think the world sucks, and going back to work reminds them of the event that started all of this. Right there is enough according to NIMH to diagnose PTSD. Nothing in that list makes them a hazard to themselves or others but there is plenty to keep them off the streets as a cop.

This police chief may have just single handed set back mental health in this state. With crap like this going on, who is going to go to a professional (or anyone) and say they are feeling down, or off, or anything other than perfectly well adjusted and happy.
 

Roland Deschain

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OK, I'll be the oddball.

Not only do I think the cops should get their licenses back, but that no one should need a license for a God-Given, Constitutionally approved Right. NO ONE.
People that do something criminal with a gun like rob, rape, or kill, may be shot in the act. Period. Law of the jungle, baby.

This line right here is total bullshit:

“You are no longer deemed suitable as a result of post-traumatic stress related to injuries incurred while on duty,” the chief wrote

And leaves the door open for pulling the licenses of Combat Veterans, and anyone else deemed "Not Suitable" which can be very capricious.


~Matt
You aren't the oddball here. We either believe in natural rights, and those are applied equally across the board whether you like the group of people or not... Or you have to accept the fact that you're a hypocrite on some level.
 

AHM

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This debate makes me wonder:
Was Eddie Ray Routh "suitable"?
 

SERE

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Question for the legally minded. As much as this sucks for the officers now, when they get their rights restored will they have to answer the proverbial 'yes' that they have had a license denied in the past? Or should a good lawyer be able to get the judge to wipe their records clean enough to satisfy the Feds?

Hopkinton residents must be pissed if they are paying attention.
 
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Good luck with that. I expect that you would find yourself in front of a judge.
They would have to find you in possession in MA sans license. If a chief yanked my FID for some BS "suitability" reason and I am not federally prohibited, there is no reason why I would not be able to store my guns in another state, like NH or Maine.
 

M1911

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They would have to find you in possession in MA sans license. If a chief yanked my FID for some BS "suitability" reason and I am not federally prohibited, there is no reason why I would not be able to store my guns in another state, like NH or Maine.
The police go to the judge with a list of the guns they think you own and the judge will tell you to turn them in or be held in contempt.
 
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You aren't the oddball here. We either believe in natural rights, and those are applied equally across the board whether you like the group of people or not... Or you have to accept the fact that you're a hypocrite on some level.
Exactly.

There are two problems here. First is licensing a right. Second is not laying off a person who can't perform the job.

Maybe they all do have PTSD, I can be sympathetic to that. The issue is you volunteered for a job whose description is explicitly you will be required to deal with the worst human situations as the primary responder.

There are way too many snowflake cops that either become too timid to handle high stress situations or become hyper reactive to low stress situations escalating them unnecessarily. Either way they shouldn't apply for jobs that guarantee seeing a dead body at some point and then claim they are disabled because they had to do their jobs.

It's like an anti volunteering to be a rifleman and then complaining they have PTSD because they had to shoot a gun.
 

42!

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Gaming the system or not they would need a med report supporting their ptsd. It hasn't been all that long and the CoP may have just gotten a report that calls their judgement or reactions into question. The last thing the CoP wants is something to happen with such a report existing. So he covers his own [email protected]@ by revoking their LTCs.

Unintended consequences, sure. Melitious, probably not. Being treated like a non CoP, definitely.
 

Roland Deschain

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Exactly.

There are two problems here. First is licensing a right. Second is not laying off a person who can't perform the job.

Maybe they all do have PTSD, I can be sympathetic to that. The issue is you volunteered for a job whose description is explicitly you will be required to deal with the worst human situations as the primary responder.

There are way too many snowflake cops that either become too timid to handle high stress situations or become hyper reactive to low stress situations escalating them unnecessarily. Either way they shouldn't apply for jobs that guarantee seeing a dead body at some point and then claim they are disabled because they had to do their jobs.

It's like an anti volunteering to be a rifleman and then complaining they have PTSD because they had to shoot a gun.
I agree... I think the issues are:
1. LTC's are bullshit
2. There are people that toss the PTSD card that are frauds. These 3 may or may not be the case.
3. If they are frauds... the remedy is not going after the LTC... you find another way to get rid of them or make life suck.
4. We should ALL be very concerned with going after natural rights because someone is dealing with stress. This kind of hits close to home for me. I have dealt with issues, and didn't say a word PRECISELY because of something like this. I also watched a fat fraud milk the system, and I have even less respect for him than I did, which is hard to comprehend.
 

Asaltweapon

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I was being sarcastic, not far off on how much they make though.
You are way off on even the top paid guys in the state. If you’re going to be a cop hater at least get a fact or two correct.

I know a bunch of great guys. They all don’t suck but some do. Maybe more than some but I also know shitty gun owners. I live next to one and I’m glad I don’t belong to that club anymore.
 

Len-2A Training

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The police go to the judge with a list of the guns they think you own and the judge will tell you to turn them in or be held in contempt.
Worse! Charged with MGL C. 269 S. 10 (don't recall sub-section) that is a felony for not turning them over immediately.

Gaming the system or not they would need a med report supporting their ptsd. It hasn't been all that long and the CoP may have just gotten a report that calls their judgement or reactions into question. The last thing the CoP wants is something to happen with such a report existing. So he covers his own [email protected]@ by revoking their LTCs.

Unintended consequences, sure. Melitious, probably not. Being treated like a non CoP, definitely.
I might believe this if it was against ONE officer, but against all 3? Very suspicious that all of a sudden the same info would show up against 3 persons to justify such action!

I agree... I think the issues are:
1. LTC's are bullshit
2. There are people that toss the PTSD card that are frauds. These 3 may or may not be the case.
3. If they are frauds... the remedy is not going after the LTC... you find another way to get rid of them or make life suck.
4. We should ALL be very concerned with going after natural rights because someone is dealing with stress. This kind of hits close to home for me. I have dealt with issues, and didn't say a word PRECISELY because of something like this. I also watched a fat fraud milk the system, and I have even less respect for him than I did, which is hard to comprehend.
EAP was being rolled out everywhere when I was on the PD. I remember a number of officers saying to never use it or the chief will know all about your problems and probably take vindictive action.
 

fencer

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After reading all 87 posts, I have a few opinions on this matter.
My first opinion is that we just don't have enough information to pass judgements.

My knee jerk reaction is COP is a dick. And then as I read on and think about it, I think it's possible that the COP feels the three are cheating the system, and he should stop it.
A few posters have suggested that they should not have become cops if blood and guts will make you freak out. Truth is, you just don't know how you will react. I don't think they can really train for it. And even guys that have been doing it for a long time, can come across a scene that makes them lose it. It happens in the military all the time. The labels have changed, Shell shock, battle fatigue, PTSD, but it's always existed. And I don't hold any ill will to guys that have gone through it. It's not normal to see people turned inside out. Some people just are not wired to deal with it, or over time it gets to them and a bad scene makes them crack.
But that is a pretty low percentage, and the odds of a scene bad enough that it happens to three guys is unlikely.

However, if the officers are saying they can't do the job because they can't stand blood and guts, and are posting hunting vids of them processing a deer, I could see how the COP would be suspicious.
Or if they claim they can't carry a gun after seeing what it can do, but are pulling security jobs at Gillette when Justin Bieber comes to town, or showing up at the local pins and plates match.

So, while on the surface it looks like a vengeful COP is being a dick, it is also possible that he is trying to save the town a fortune by forcing them to contradict their disability claim.
I would assume, maybe incorrectly, the COP consulted an attorney. If he did not before, he certainly has by now. If they don't back down, they better have some strong evidence or Chief Wiggam will be looking for private security jobs.

 

Boris

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Worse! Charged with MGL C. 269 S. 10 (don't recall sub-section) that is a felony for not turning them over immediately.
with an average American committing around three felonies/day ... if judge wants to f*** you, s/he will f*** you and not even a high priced lawyer will help you (may be with vaseline) ... oh, in MA, the judge will most definitely f*** you.


This PTSD leading to inability to work for 1.5years screams like 99.99999999% fraud. As having an EMT in family, they see worse shit on a boring night in a big city. Can't handle it, don't join. Plus Hopkington is not f***ing Chicago. There is plenty of desk duty, PR duty, donut monitoring, go visit f***ing schools, talk to kiddos, may be even pick up trash. Tell me how the f*** you can't be bothered to show up to office to do nothing at all, 'cause PTSD, unless the chief raped them in the basement and now police uniform causes flash backs.

My opinion, I'm fairly certain that dudes tried to f*** town, the chief tried to f*** them ... gay ole mAss for you. I will definitely put them on my best wishes list, right after I finish grieving for Hillary's POTUS bid loss.

LTCs are bullshit, chiefs taking them is bullshit, but if we need another Com2A case, can we at least find better test subjects?
 
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Worse! Charged with MGL C. 269 S. 10 (don't recall sub-section) that is a felony for not turning them over immediately.


I might believe this if it was against ONE officer, but against all 3? Very suspicious that all of a sudden the same info would show up against 3 persons to justify such action!


EAP was being rolled out everywhere when I was on the PD. I remember a number of officers saying to never use it or the chief will know all about your problems and probably take vindictive action.
Wow! Never realized how whipped you Yankees have become. If any judge in Alabama tried that, he or she would be waiting face-down in a local river or bayou for alligator bait! Us rebels don't screw around!
 
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