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Hopkinton chief pulls 3 officers' LTCs

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by JJ4, Apr 2, 2019.

  1. snubnose

    snubnose

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    point very well taken

    Isn't a Chief who takes such drastic and -seemingly- vindictive/retaliatory actions at least as ill as anyone with ptsd, a condition which may be cured ???

    Maybe this is one of the situations that require granting the benefit of doubt to the Chief???
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2019
  2. xtry51

    xtry51

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    While I agree that is a terrible incident, if they can't do their jobs they should be laid off. Also,as a police office you have to expect this is what you will encounter on the job. I was an EMT and its par for the course for any emergency response personnel.
     
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  3. 308rifleman

    308rifleman

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    Turn in the guns and ammo. Yeah, right! Department-issued ones, definitely. The privately-owned ones are probably three states away by now. Anyone who surrenders their guns these days is crazy! Just hide them out of state.
     
  4. PennyPincher

    PennyPincher NES Member

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    I'm guessing that the 3 are arguing they cannot return to duty due to the PTSD suffered on the job.
     
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  5. SERE

    SERE NES Life Member NES Member

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    I agree, no arguments. I couldn't find anything else in the area for that date.

    There are numerous reports of Moran being subject to hearings for dismissal/suspension before July '17. Nothing seems to be in the public purview.
     
  6. amm5061

    amm5061 NES Member

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    Sounds like a lawsuit should be forthcoming....
     
  7. millbilly

    millbilly NES Member

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    I tend to agree with you. I work as a firefighter paramedic and we are fortunate to get a better retirement schedule based largely on the nature of the job. People getting into public safety should really do a mental self inventory before they sign up. Every situation is different. Some people experience some excessively bad stuff and crack up. At least they have kept them employed for a while, sounds like they were trying to get them back to work and not retiring them too quickly. Work injuries are not totally private. Your employer needs to know information that proves it to be work related and if you have a medical plan to be able to return to work.
     
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  8. 67ray

    67ray NES Member

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    Until the day permanent disability is awarded, then miraculously they are healed and get a job in the private sector.

     
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  9. M1911

    M1911 Moderator NES Member

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    Good luck with that. I expect that you would find yourself in front of a judge.
     
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  10. cams

    cams NES Member

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    I think this Chief is going to have a helluva lawsuit fall into his lap here pretty quickly. 2-3 yrs and tens of thousands of dollars to fight it, these guys will get their LTC back, take a good settlement from the town, and the chief will be unceremoniously retired from Hopkington payrolls.
     
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  11. cams

    cams NES Member

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    Could you rub your crystal ball and give me the numbers for tonight while you’re at it?
     
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  12. amm5061

    amm5061 NES Member

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    It's okay. Hopkinton has plenty of money to piss away on this thanks to doing the world's shittiest job plowing the streets when it snows. [rolleyes]
     
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  13. Aegius

    Aegius

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    Chief is calling their bluff. If their PTSD is so severe that they have been unable to work for years, then clearly they are unsuitable to possess firearms. He wants to see them show up in court and contradict themselves as to the reasons they have been disabled for YEARS. Hopkinton makes it very easy to get an unrestricted LTC-A so this isn't the norm. This is a tough chief making these few individuals put their money where their mouth is so to speak.
     
  14. GBs OTHER BRO

    GBs OTHER BRO

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    On that date, a Mass. State troopers (from Hopkinton) son used his service weapon to kill himself. Maybe they were the ones to respond to that, and knew the kid.
     
  15. bill o

    bill o

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    It's good that Hopkinton hired a police chief who's also a medical doctor who can interpret mental health diagnoses. Very special combo of skills.
     
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  16. SSShooter

    SSShooter NES Member

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    IF that's what's going on, kudos for the chief for not sitting on his hands while the system gets abused. However, that he (or anyone) can revoke a fundamental right in the pursuit of this is absolute and utter B.S. regardless of the circumstances.
     
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  17. cams

    cams NES Member

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    Haven’t been to TJ’s in about 3 years, but I remember frequently seeing Hopkington PD sitting in TJ’s parking lot (in Ashland) watching people getting into cars and following them if they turn right. They’re also well know for “chalking” tires or putting small stickers on vehicle headlights or taillights to ID them after leaving the bar.

    Good example of piss poor police work.
     
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  18. rali

    rali

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    Um. It was a while ago, but my BFS class was taught IN the Hopkinton PD training room.

    R
     
  19. JRT

    JRT NES Member

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    Found 1 of the 3?
     
  20. rali

    rali

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    Ayer or Lunenberg used to do the same at one of the dive bars near Devens. My god that place was a sh*thole ...

    R
     
  21. PappyM3

    PappyM3 NES Member

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    Understood, but my point is they the chief’s claim of medical records supporting his decision means he was looking at medical records. Disability issues from a job are supposed to be dealt with between the medical professionals, insurance, and HR staff as necessary. CoP has no business actually looking at the medical records.
     
  22. SSShooter

    SSShooter NES Member

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    The officers likely submitted their medical records in order to show their disability.
     
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  23. PappyM3

    PappyM3 NES Member

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    So you think PTS is a disqualifier for excercising one’s 2A rights?

    Cool, good to know.

    By the way, police work is a lot more involved than just having a gun and using it if necessary. One can be unable to perform that difficult job, while still very responsibly owning and using firearms.

    Edit: I do think they’re gaming the disability system, but I also absolutely don’t think that gives the Chief any right to do what he did.

     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2019
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  24. PennyPincher

    PennyPincher NES Member

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    not
    necessarily. if you use your "medical records" to support your claim of PTSD, in a hearing at which the COP is present, he can't just ignore that knowledge in regards to "should this person have an LTC," can he? Personally, I don't think that every/most cases of PTSD should be grounds for revocation of an LTC. Can he legally share that info with the COP in the town(s) which the officers received their LTC? I don't know. Possibly.
     
  25. robjax

    robjax

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    If they win could this be a could precedent?

    "The officers each filed appeals in February through attorney Kathleen Reagan, claiming the action violates their constitutional right to bear arms and partake in a grievance process."

    “The (suspensions) were without reasonable grounds, and the decision to deny by the defendant was arbitrary, capricious and an abuse of discretion,” Reagan wrote, “and constitutes a discrimination based on the fact that (their) duty-related (injuries) which is cited for the reason of suspension, occurred over a year and a half ago.
     
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  26. robjax

    robjax

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    It's surprising to me that any of them were actually at work that night....

    "The crash remains under investigation by Troop E of the Massachusetts State Police,"
     
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  27. JJ4

    JJ4 NES Member

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    If you live in town A but are a police officer in Town B, where you have a Town B issued LTC. If you leave the job in Town B, do you get to keep the Town B LTC in perpetuity? Do they let you renew it? I'd think they'd tell you to go apply in your home town.

    It would have been interesting for the chief to take a position that since they are no longer working on the job, that he would expire their LTC rather than revoking it. Clearly that's not what's happening here, since he explicitly invoked suitability.
     
  28. millbilly

    millbilly NES Member

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    I'm not expert but I don't think that municipal disability pensions work that way. I think you are severely limited on what you can earn while collecting. Also I think they get 72% of their base salary but tax exempt. I'm gonna look into it more because I am curious. Now I don't want to over generalize but it seems like the vast majority of guys I've seen go out on dissabilies had recently earned a demotion or suspension...
     
  29. cams

    cams NES Member

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    No sir you did not. But I am amazed at your ability to read a blurb of a story and conclude that three individuals in it are shitheads and the one denying their 2A rights is A ok.
     
  30. millbilly

    millbilly NES Member

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    In my experience at a couple different towns this is not necessarily true. I've always seen medical documents (pertaining to the specific injury) submitted to the department administration. Actually my current job is for a fire district and we don't even have a HR department so I guess you could say that the admin is the HR administrator. When you go through the disability process you are reviewed by a 3 MD panel. The union will probably be involved. So basically realistically if you are trying to say that you can't work because of an injury caused at work then a whole bunch of people are going to be seeing a specific part of your medical history.
     

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