Hopkinton chief pulls 3 officers' LTCs

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If an Officer went to E.A.P. and asked for help with a drinking problem, would a Chief bench them and pull their LTC?.
point very well taken

Isn't a Chief who takes such drastic and -seemingly- vindictive/retaliatory actions at least as ill as anyone with ptsd, a condition which may be cured ???

Maybe this is one of the situations that require granting the benefit of doubt to the Chief???
 
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I don't know if they responded to, then suffered PTSD, from this accident

July 24, 2017 -- At about 5:53 p.m. Sunday evening, Massachusetts State Troopers from the Weston Barracks responded to a crash on Route 90 westbound, near the North Street Overpass, at mile marker 102.5 in Upton. The crash resulted in the death of a girl who had exited a motor vehicle that had pulled into a breakdown lane.

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Hopkinton News - only online !
While I agree that is a terrible incident, if they can't do their jobs they should be laid off. Also,as a police office you have to expect this is what you will encounter on the job. I was an EMT and its par for the course for any emergency response personnel.
 
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This is interesting...

Metrowest Daily News article: Hopkinton police chief pulls gun licenses from three officers

The officers -... - have been on “injured on duty” leave for a year and a half and not working shifts, according to town officials.
...

Lee sent letters informing the officers of their firearms license suspensions to their respective hometowns on Dec. 14. As part of the suspension, the officers must turn in all licenses, guns and ammunition to their local police station.

“You are no longer deemed suitable as a result of post-traumatic stress related to injuries incurred while on duty,” the chief wrote to all three officers. “This is supported by medical reports.”


[Bolding mine. Full story in link.]
Turn in the guns and ammo. Yeah, right! Department-issued ones, definitely. The privately-owned ones are probably three states away by now. Anyone who surrenders their guns these days is crazy! Just hide them out of state.
 

PennyPincher

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Sure sounds like they were gaming the worker’s comp game and ol’ Chief-boy decided to go full tyrant on them as payback. It’s also pretty ridiculous to use post traumatic stress as the reason, and what medical records does the chief have access to? Medical records should only be visible to certain individuals.

Lastly, I’m a little confused about one aspect. He says he mailed the revocation orders to their hometowns. I guess they all lived in Hopkinton at one point within 6 years and he was the original issuer.
I'm guessing that the 3 are arguing they cannot return to duty due to the PTSD suffered on the job.
 

SERE

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While I agree that is a terrible incident, if they can't do their jobs they should be laid off. Also,as a police office you have to expect this is what you will encounter on the job. I was an EMT and its par for the course for any emergency response personnel.
I agree, no arguments. I couldn't find anything else in the area for that date.

There are numerous reports of Moran being subject to hearings for dismissal/suspension before July '17. Nothing seems to be in the public purview.
 
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While I agree that is a terrible incident, if they can't do their jobs they should be laid off. Also,as a police office you have to expect this is what you will encounter on the job. I was an EMT and its par for the course for any emergency response personnel.
I tend to agree with you. I work as a firefighter paramedic and we are fortunate to get a better retirement schedule based largely on the nature of the job. People getting into public safety should really do a mental self inventory before they sign up. Every situation is different. Some people experience some excessively bad stuff and crack up. At least they have kept them employed for a while, sounds like they were trying to get them back to work and not retiring them too quickly. Work injuries are not totally private. Your employer needs to know information that proves it to be work related and if you have a medical plan to be able to return to work.
 

67ray

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Until the day permanent disability is awarded, then miraculously they are healed and get a job in the private sector.

The waiting period and actions most likely clear them for SSDI and supplemental LTD payments.

When you have a medically documented issue you can only manage it.
 

M1911

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Turn in the guns and ammo. Yeah, right! Department-issued ones, definitely. The privately-owned ones are probably three states away by now. Anyone who surrenders their guns these days is crazy! Just hide them out of state.
Good luck with that. I expect that you would find yourself in front of a judge.
 

cams

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I think this Chief is going to have a helluva lawsuit fall into his lap here pretty quickly. 2-3 yrs and tens of thousands of dollars to fight it, these guys will get their LTC back, take a good settlement from the town, and the chief will be unceremoniously retired from Hopkington payrolls.
 

cams

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This isn't about an attack on freedom. This is about three shitty police who want the world to run the way it did 30 years ago using PTSD to rape the town. This is a calculated play by the chief and I applaud him.
Could you rub your crystal ball and give me the numbers for tonight while you’re at it?
 

amm5061

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I think this Chief is going to have a helluva lawsuit fall into his lap here pretty quickly. 2-3 yrs and tens of thousands of dollars to fight it, these guys will get their LTC back, take a good settlement from the town, and the chief will be unceremoniously retired from Hopkington payrolls.
It's okay. Hopkinton has plenty of money to piss away on this thanks to doing the world's shittiest job plowing the streets when it snows. [rolleyes]
 
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Chief is calling their bluff. If their PTSD is so severe that they have been unable to work for years, then clearly they are unsuitable to possess firearms. He wants to see them show up in court and contradict themselves as to the reasons they have been disabled for YEARS. Hopkinton makes it very easy to get an unrestricted LTC-A so this isn't the norm. This is a tough chief making these few individuals put their money where their mouth is so to speak.
 
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On that date, a Mass. State troopers (from Hopkinton) son used his service weapon to kill himself. Maybe they were the ones to respond to that, and knew the kid.
 

SSShooter

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Chief is calling their bluff. If their PTSD is so severe that they have been unable to work for years, then clearly they are unsuitable to possess firearms. He wants to see them show up in court and contradict themselves as to the reasons they have been disabled for YEARS. Hopkinton makes it very easy to get an unrestricted LTC-A so this isn't the norm. This is a tough chief making these few individuals put their money where their mouth is so to speak.
IF that's what's going on, kudos for the chief for not sitting on his hands while the system gets abused. However, that he (or anyone) can revoke a fundamental right in the pursuit of this is absolute and utter B.S. regardless of the circumstances.
 

cams

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I've seen Ashland PD sitting in the parking lot, and with the new station going in down the street, taking a left isn't a great idea either.

And who goes to TJs and drinks beer? You're not getting your money's worth if you aren't drinking the hard stuff there.
Haven’t been to TJ’s in about 3 years, but I remember frequently seeing Hopkington PD sitting in TJ’s parking lot (in Ashland) watching people getting into cars and following them if they turn right. They’re also well know for “chalking” tires or putting small stickers on vehicle headlights or taillights to ID them after leaving the bar.

Good example of piss poor police work.
 
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Haven’t been to TJ’s in about 3 years, but I remember frequently seeing Hopkington PD sitting in TJ’s parking lot (in Ashland) watching people getting into cars and following them if they turn right. They’re also well know for “chalking” tires or putting small stickers on vehicle headlights or taillights to ID them after leaving the bar.

Good example of piss poor police work.
Ayer or Lunenberg used to do the same at one of the dive bars near Devens. My god that place was a sh*thole ...

R
 

PappyM3

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I'm guessing that the 3 are arguing they cannot return to duty due to the PTSD suffered on the job.
Understood, but my point is they the chief’s claim of medical records supporting his decision means he was looking at medical records. Disability issues from a job are supposed to be dealt with between the medical professionals, insurance, and HR staff as necessary. CoP has no business actually looking at the medical records.
 

SSShooter

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Understood, but my point is they the chief’s claim of medical records supporting his decision means he was looking at medical records. Disability issues from a job are supposed to be dealt with between the medical professionals, insurance, and HR staff as necessary. CoP has no business actually looking at the medical records.
The officers likely submitted their medical records in order to show their disability.
 

PappyM3

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So you think PTS is a disqualifier for excercising one’s 2A rights?

Cool, good to know.

By the way, police work is a lot more involved than just having a gun and using it if necessary. One can be unable to perform that difficult job, while still very responsibly owning and using firearms.

Edit: I do think they’re gaming the disability system, but I also absolutely don’t think that gives the Chief any right to do what he did.

Chief is calling their bluff. If their PTSD is so severe that they have been unable to work for years, then clearly they are unsuitable to possess firearms. He wants to see them show up in court and contradict themselves as to the reasons they have been disabled for YEARS. Hopkinton makes it very easy to get an unrestricted LTC-A so this isn't the norm. This is a tough chief making these few individuals put their money where their mouth is so to speak.
 
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PennyPincher

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Understood, but my point is they the chief’s claim of medical records supporting his decision means he was looking at medical records. Disability issues from a job are supposed to be dealt with between the medical professionals, insurance, and HR staff as necessary. CoP has no business actually looking at the medical records.
necessarily. if you use your "medical records" to support your claim of PTSD, in a hearing at which the COP is present, he can't just ignore that knowledge in regards to "should this person have an LTC," can he? Personally, I don't think that every/most cases of PTSD should be grounds for revocation of an LTC. Can he legally share that info with the COP in the town(s) which the officers received their LTC? I don't know. Possibly.
 
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If they win could this be a could precedent?

"The officers each filed appeals in February through attorney Kathleen Reagan, claiming the action violates their constitutional right to bear arms and partake in a grievance process."

“The (suspensions) were without reasonable grounds, and the decision to deny by the defendant was arbitrary, capricious and an abuse of discretion,” Reagan wrote, “and constitutes a discrimination based on the fact that (their) duty-related (injuries) which is cited for the reason of suspension, occurred over a year and a half ago.
 
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I don't know if they responded to, then suffered PTSD, from this accident

July 24, 2017 -- At about 5:53 p.m. Sunday evening, Massachusetts State Troopers from the Weston Barracks responded to a crash on Route 90 westbound, near the North Street Overpass, at mile marker 102.5 in Upton. The crash resulted in the death of a girl who had exited a motor vehicle that had pulled into a breakdown lane.

You'll need to scroll down.
Hopkinton News - only online !

It's surprising to me that any of them were actually at work that night....

"The crash remains under investigation by Troop E of the Massachusetts State Police,"
 

JJ4

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If you live in town A but are a police officer in Town B, where you have a Town B issued LTC. If you leave the job in Town B, do you get to keep the Town B LTC in perpetuity? Do they let you renew it? I'd think they'd tell you to go apply in your home town.

It would have been interesting for the chief to take a position that since they are no longer working on the job, that he would expire their LTC rather than revoking it. Clearly that's not what's happening here, since he explicitly invoked suitability.
 
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Until the day permanent disability is awarded, then miraculously they are healed and get a job in the private sector.
I'm not expert but I don't think that municipal disability pensions work that way. I think you are severely limited on what you can earn while collecting. Also I think they get 72% of their base salary but tax exempt. I'm gonna look into it more because I am curious. Now I don't want to over generalize but it seems like the vast majority of guys I've seen go out on dissabilies had recently earned a demotion or suspension...
 
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Understood, but my point is they the chief’s claim of medical records supporting his decision means he was looking at medical records. Disability issues from a job are supposed to be dealt with between the medical professionals, insurance, and HR staff as necessary. CoP has no business actually looking at the medical records.
In my experience at a couple different towns this is not necessarily true. I've always seen medical documents (pertaining to the specific injury) submitted to the department administration. Actually my current job is for a fire district and we don't even have a HR department so I guess you could say that the admin is the HR administrator. When you go through the disability process you are reviewed by a 3 MD panel. The union will probably be involved. So basically realistically if you are trying to say that you can't work because of an injury caused at work then a whole bunch of people are going to be seeing a specific part of your medical history.
 
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