Home Invasion Hypothetical: What Would You Do?

[LadySmith]

I own two dogs, live in a fairly small (green) town in Massachusetts and I'm often out of my house from morning until night. I like having dogs because they (1) deter people from breaking in; (2) would make a mess, one way or another, if they were involved in a struggle with an intruder while I was gone; and (3) alert me, when I'm home with them, if someone comes near the house. So I think everyone should own at least one dog, as a first line of defense.

My problem is that my house is old, and it would be possible for someone to break in through a basement window, thus avoiding my dogs. Home invasions often occur through basement windows: http://tinyurl.com/42ne2pg . Dogs can be poisoned and shot by intruders, so they're not the only home protection I use.

With that in mind, I worry when I go downstairs to my basement, so I never go down there "cold."

Question: if you were to encounter a person in your basement -- someone who broke in through the window in order to get there -- would you shoot the intruder, no matter how old he or she is? In other words, if the intruder were a teenager, would that make a difference to you?

Me? I'd be in total fear for my life, and that would be that. Plenty of murders are committed by teenagers, and anyone who breaks in through a basement window is up to no good. I'm sure I would exercise my right to defend myself, regardless of the age of the home invader.

Just thought I'd throw this hypo out there, 'cause I haven't seen it on this site. What do people think they'd do in case they had a home invader? Would the gender or age of the criminal change your response? Do you guys plan for things like that?

Thanks a lot for your responses. Take care.

(P.S. Yeah, yeah, I know I can put bars on the window. But this question still gnaws at me because home invader could sneak in another way, like when I'm out with the dogs and then find him at home when I return, etc. )

 

[MisterHappy]

If the basement windows are a weak point, put bars/grills over them.

 

[andyc4728]

If you are in fear of your life or serious bodily injury then that's that. Doesn't matter what the demographics of the aggressor are..

But seriously, spend some time and/or money securing your basement. Manufactured window bars (or even perforated tube steel and few concrete anchors) can make a huge difference. An alarm system can also be very helpful here.

 

[OPM]

LadySmith, does this answer your question?

 

[Billsail]

I would not shoot unless there was absolutely, positively, no alternative, eg; run for safety. Get out of harms way and call 911. If I found myself in a position where I had no choice, of course I would shoot.

 

[deadhead133]

If the threat to my life is there, is real, and genuine in my mind, I will remove the threat. (Or die in the attempt.)

Recent events regarding violent home invasions dictate the proper response. If you stop to ponder all the possibilities,

you will perhaps end up dead or severely injured by an accomplice you didn't see. I am aware of the fact that the "authorities"

will have many months to dissect my actions which occured in perhaps a fraction of a second, and I will not let that affect my actions

or my decisions. Threat real = Remove threat. Threat may be a teenager, (and the media will refer to them as such, or as a child)

but said teenager may be 6' 4" tall and weigh 240 pounds. My hand to hand days ended quite some time ago.

 

[Squished]

What about a house alarm with an "indoor" setting where the motion sensors inside are disabled but the doors/windows are armed for when you are home and full protection when you are gone?

 

[FreeWillie]

Shoot first ask questions later... rip the front of your blouse and play the victim card. Anyone that breaks into your house is up to no good.

 

[Radtekk]

Unfortunately, alarms aren't always an option (rental properties, and the OP doesn't specify) and are also ineffective if the power is out. Also, if a "Panic button" isn't activated, the scenario is basically this… Alarm activated by entry. after 45 seconds of no code, the siren goes off, and the alarm company is alerted. They call, ask for a password (Yes, there is also a panic codeword on file). If they get the panic word or the incorrect codeword, the police are called, and a car is (hopefully) dispatched. Probably faster for a panic word than incorrect codeword. At a guess, we are now 3 minutes or so from the INITIAL alarm activation at this point, and the police have JUST been dispatched. Are they 2 minutes away, 5, 10? Now, if I'm at work, I don't care if they take 3 hours, or DAYS, to arrive. If I'm facing someone in my basement, BELIEVE ME, I care!

If I am home, hear a noise in the basement that is not a 4-legged version of a rodent, I would get my gun, make sure it was loaded, listen for more noise, grab a phone, call 911, and watch the basement door from AS FAR AWAY AS POSSIBLE. There should also be AT LEAST one lock on it preventing entry into the house, LOCKED at all times. If someone attempted to get through the door, "I have a gun, the police are on the way, I WILL shoot you if you come through the door!" If the door opens, pull the trigger. I would NOT leave the house, because as deadhead said, there might be another accomplice, even waiting outside.

I'm 6'4', 305 and very male, so I think I would personally have to pass on FreeWillie's advice, although for a female of any age, a torn blouse is a HELL of a lot cheaper than an attorney!

 

[Squished]

I see your point, but it's nice to know the police are on the while while you're doing your thing in the first 5 minutes. Also, most modern house alarms have battery backup.

 

[CosmicIrony]

We've thought a lot about this problem, because my wife's business is run out of our house (she's an artist). We opted for ADT alarm service, a deadbolt on the door between the house and the studio, and a 9mm in the bedroom safe.

A false alarm from the studio motion detectors leaves me with a dilemma: when the alarm goes off at night, do I call for police or do I check the studio first? I still haven't decided, because (a) it doesn't happen often, (b) it's always been a false alarm so far. What I have decided is the door between the studio and the house is my line in the sand - cross that, and I will shoot.

We still have the problem of what to do during the day, when my wife is home alone. She hasn't applied for her LTC yet, though I expect she will. I'd feel a lot better is she had her LTC and a decent carry gun. The doors are always locked, so she'd have some warning that someone was trying to break in.

 

[mark056]

The problem with hypotheticals is that they are exactly that. When the SHTF, there may be variables that were never factored in. First and foremost, if one sees a weakness in their home security, then correct that weakness. Bar the basement windows, put a deadbolt lock on the door leading to the basement stairwell.

Under the "castle doctrine" one has no obligation to withdraw or retreat, by the same token, lethal force should be the last resort and not the first resort, on the other hand "when seconds count, the police are only minutes away" and from a legal standpoint are not required to respond to a call for help anyway, their responsibility is to protect society collectively and not individually.

While, I firmly believe in using lethal force as a last resort, an ancillary to this is make sure that you have the mindset to employ lethal force. Not everyone can kill. If you purchase a firearm for strictly defensive purposes then you must make that commitment. One doesn't threaten with or display a firearm unless one is prepared to use it. It matters not the age or other demographics of the threat. One engages the threat to neutralize it, not to wound. No warning shots either.

One of the good things about the defense use of a firearm is the fact that frequently the mere display of a firearm will deescalate the threat. Kleck and others have pointed out that the display of a firearm frequently deter a threat from further activity. This is also illustrated monthly in the various NRA publications in the "Armed Citizen" column.

This is a complex issue and this one the motto of the Boy Scouts (which unlike the military and the police consistently have adult leadership ) should be taken to heart: BE PREPARED

 

[Jbarila]

The home invasion in NH where the mother was killed and daughter badly injured was committed by
teenagers If my life or family members life were in danger the shot would be fired.

 

[fencer]

I always say that if the dog is snarling and barking, and he keeps coming, I figure that is a pretty clear threat to my family.

 

[MassMark]

Boards full of nails below your basement windows...If someone breaks into your home and you second guess defending yourself, you may wind up dead....

 

[DrRansom]

Take some training classes and develop your skills (assuming you haven't already). You're already nervous, you've got a gun (more anxiety), and if you actually did find anyone down there your adrenaline would slam you like a truck. Frequent practice of said skills will make them come if that situation ever happened - and that may be the only way to control that situation enough to actually decide what to do, or keep presence of mind enough to tear that blouse off once it's all said and done.

Seriously, though, confidence through training and practice might be a good start if you are worried.

 

[ACB84]

The problem with hypotheticals is that they are exactly that. When the SHTF, there may be variables that were never factored in. First and foremost, if one sees a weakness in their home security, then correct that weakness. Bar the basement windows, put a deadbolt lock on the door leading to the basement stairwell.

Under the "castle doctrine" one has no obligation to withdraw or retreat, by the same token, lethal force should be the last resort and not the first resort, by on the other hand "when seconds count, the police are only minutes away" and from a legal standpoint are not required to respond to a call for help anyway, their responsibility is to protect society collectively and not individually.

While, I firmly believe in using lethal force as a last resort, an ancillary to this is make sure that you have the mindset to employ lethal force. Not everyone can kill. If you purchase a firearm for strictly defensive purposes then you must make that commitment. One doesn't threaten with or display a firearm unless one is prepared to use it. It matters not the age or other demographics of the threat. One engages the threat to neutralize it, not to wound. No warning shots either.

One of the good things about the defense use of a firearm is the fact that frequently the mere display of a firearm will deescalate the threat. Kleck and others have pointed out that the display of a firearm frequently deter a threat from further activity. This is also illustrated monthly in the various NRA publications in the "Armed Citizen" column.

This is a complex issue and this one the motto of the Boy Scouts (which unlike the military and the police consistently have adult leadership ) should be taken to heart: BE PREPARED

From my understanding MA has not adopted the "castle doctrine"

 

[mark056]

From my understanding MA has not adopted the "castle doctrine"

MGL Chapter 278, Section 8A. In the prosecution of a person who is an occupant of a dwelling charged with killing or injuring one who was unlawfully in said dwelling, it shall be a defense that the occupant was in his dwelling at the time of the offense and that he acted in the reasonable belief that the person unlawfully in said dwelling was about to inflict great bodily injury or death upon said occupant or upon another person lawfully in said dwelling, and that said occupant used reasonable means to defend himself or such other person lawfully in said dwelling. There shall be no duty on said occupant to retreat from such person unlawfully in said dwelling.

 

[RKBA Personal Safety]

Mass. has a very, very weak version of what most other states call their "castle doctrines." My reading is that it states we have no duty to retreat from our dwellings. It offers little if anything in the way of legal protections to the inhabitants who use lethal force to stop an intruder.

In several other states, there is an automatic assumption that an intruder intends to inflict great bodily or injury or death on the inhabitants. Also, the laws there provide immunity from prosecution and civil liability when the inhabitant uses lethal force in such a situation.

Also, castle doctrines in those states may extend the dwelling to one's car, office, and anyplace where the victim has a right to be and is not committing a crime.

I understand in Mass., there is a legal duty to retreat from an attack outside your home. I'm sure this just delights the Marsha and the other collectivists out there.

 

[Alex9661]

Always remember that the last words of the dead intruder were "I gonna take this gun from you and f-n kill you with it" .

 

[drgrant]

From my understanding MA has not adopted the "castle doctrine"

Per se, no, but in MA a homeowner has no duty to retreat from a threat that justifies a deadly force response. This differs from being "on the street".

So in that regard, MA does have a castle clause, although it's not as expansive as it is in many free states where it's basically "anyone who is in your house that doesn't belong there is basically lunchmeat/moving target."

-Mike

 

[GSG]

OP, what you're describing sounds much more like surprising a burglar than it does a "home invasion." In both cases your dwelling is certainly being invaded in a sense, but one is much less violent from the outset than the other.

If you are in fear of your life or serious bodily injury then that's that. Doesn't matter what the demographics of the aggressor are..

But seriously, spend some time and/or money securing your basement. Manufactured window bars (or even perforated tube steel and few concrete anchors) can make a huge difference. An alarm system can also be very helpful here.

Everything this guy said.

Under the "castle doctrine" one has no obligation to withdraw or retreat

It's a little bit different than that. See the bolded portion in the law you quoted below.

MGL Chapter 278, Section 8A. In the prosecution of a person who is an occupant of a dwelling charged with killing or injuring one who was unlawfully in said dwelling, it shall be a defense that the occupant was in his dwelling at the time of the offense and that he acted in the reasonable belief that the person unlawfully in said dwelling was about to inflict great bodily injury or death upon said occupant or upon another person lawfully in said dwelling, and that said occupant used reasonable means to defend himself or such other person lawfully in said dwelling. There shall be no duty on said occupant to retreat from such person unlawfully in said dwelling.

Notice it doesn't say that you shall not be prosecuted, shall not spend thousands on an attorney. It presumes that you will be prosecuted, but allows you to defend yourself in court if you defend yourself from an unlawful intruder in your home. See also the title of MGL Chapter 278:

PART IV CRIMES, PUNISHMENTS AND PROCEEDINGS IN CRIMINAL CASES
(Chapters 263 through 280)

TITLE II PROCEEDINGS IN CRIMINAL CASES

CHAPTER 278 TRIALS AND PROCEEDINGS BEFORE JUDGMENT

They're referring to your criminal trial. This is not nearly as expansive as the "castle laws" in many other states.

 

[Jose]

I would not shoot unless there was absolutely, positively, no alternative, eg; run for safety. Get out of harms way and call 911. If I found myself in a position where I had no choice, of course I would shoot.

In your own house? Seriously?

 

[shadyduk1979]

As far as i am concerned, breaking into my home, you are a threat to me and my family and deadly force will be used. I don't care if its a 300 pound man built like a linebacker with a machete or a one legged midget armed with a pen knife. Even knowing the consequences of those actions, i would not hesitate.

To the OP: if you are nervous about what you will do, run through it dry until it becomes second nature. If the time ever god forbid comes, you will fall back on your training

 

[Kevin_NH]

What about a house alarm with an "indoor" setting where the motion sensors inside are disabled but the doors/windows are armed for when you are home and full protection when you are gone?

Professional alarms have these features, and can also be set so the perimeter (window/door) and any shop or basement motion sensors are armed, but the main living area motion sensors are disabled.

That's not to say having a good dog isn't helpful. Send pooch into the basement first.

We still have the problem of what to do during the day, when my wife is home alone. She hasn't applied for her LTC yet, though I expect she will. I'd feel a lot better is she had her LTC and a decent carry gun. The doors are always locked, so she'd have some warning that someone was trying to break in.

To quote Jose from this thread "In your own house? Seriously?". Can you at least get her a nice shotgun?

The home invasion in NH where the mother was killed and daughter badly injured was committed by teenagers. If my life or family members life were in danger the shot would be fired.

No argument here, except in favor of firing more than once.

The way I see it, the resident must assume that an intruder has put at least a moment's thought (even teens think about consequences, they just opt to proceed anyway) into what HE would do if somebody turns out to be home. He made his decision long before he made his way into your basement, you must do the same.

 

[Bill Nance]

I will tell you what I tell every one of my classes in a state that is FAR, FAR more friendly to self-defense than Mass, ever will be:

A: If you can retreat to a safe area with everyone in the house in that area, DO SO. Call 911 and let the cops deal with it. Your primary objective is YOUR SAFETY. Not to apprehend the dirtbag,
B: Only chase the bad guy/clear rooms if it is absolutely necessary to insure your safety or the safety of someone else in the house. Else, See plan A

The internet tough guys on this forum will get you jailed or make you shoot someone when you didn't need to and regret it to the end of your days. If you HAVE to shoot someone, by all means do so. But also realize that your life will change forever in that moment, and that change will not be for the better. Even if the cops show up and give you a medal and the family won't sue you, it will not be a positive experience for you.

Retreat whenever possible. Let the cops deal with it. They get paid to do it and don't have the same liabilities that you do.

 

[GraftonNH]

Me? I'd be in total fear for my life, and that would be that.

Sounds a little premeditated to me. Clearly if you actually fear for your life, do what you have to do to protect yourself and your family. You can't know now, in advance, that the simple presence of someone in your basement means you'd be "in total fear for your life."

 

[Jose]

There is NO WAY that I could sit in a room with my wife and daughter and do nothing knowing a predator is on the loose in MY house,

 

[BOBKATT]

There are 13 year olds that are hard thugs and will kill you for bragging rights. Fear of great bodily harm or death doesn't require you to check their D.O.B.

 

[MassMark]

Retreat whenever possible. Let the cops deal with it. They get paid to do it and don't have the same liabilities that you do.

You must live next to a police station...Nice to know help is right next door, but for many, (if not most), police help is all-to-often crucial miles away. It defies logic, (at least mine), to think that if someone were to enter my home, with my family, pets and possessions, that my number one thought would be to not neutralize the threat...The "what if's" abound - what if that one person was the lead-in for several more waiting outside? I guess I just choose not to play roulette with the lives of the people I love and cherish and depend on the not-so-dependable to ride in and save the day....