HD.4420 State House and Boston Common Rally

[pastera]

"I've been a life-long democrat and supporter of gun control. I don't know anything about guns and don't really care anyways, since I just want power and control. But man, that pastera guy laid it all out so eloquently that I'm now a proud champion of the Second Amendment. I'm totally going to go against my base and my entire party and do what pastera said because he really gave me all the facts."
-No legislator ever.

If you think that they support gun control simply out of ignorance on the topic, I have a bridge to sell you.

True but showing a clear knowledge of the subject that contradicts the legislators unsupported emotional positions is a strong tool when backed up by hundreds of phone calls pushing that same knowledge.

Will it reverse their positions, no it won't but it can slow the roll.

 

[Grendizer138]

"I've been a life-long democrat and supporter of gun control. I don't know anything about guns and don't really care anyways, since I just want power and control. But man, that pastera guy laid it all out so eloquently that I'm now a proud champion of the Second Amendment. I'm totally going to go against my base and my entire party and do what pastera said because he really gave me all the facts."
-No legislator ever.

If you think that they support gun control simply out of ignorance on the topic, I have a bridge to sell you.

It sounds like he’s been doing this for awhile, and maybe there was a time when these processes worked; but Massachusetts has gone so far to the left in the past 5-10 years that traditional tactics no longer work.

I think it hasn’t registered yet with some of our older members…or maybe it has judging by the turnout.

 

[Mesatchornug]

It sounds like he’s been doing this for awhile, and maybe there was a time when these processes worked; but Massachusetts has gone so far to the left in the past 5-10 years that traditional tactics no longer work.

I think it hasn’t registered yet with some of our older members…or maybe it has judging by the turnout.

I think there's a value to guys like @Cape Gun Works saying they will not comply in front of a crowd of hundreds. More value, in fact, than Jim saying the same a couple minutes later. When one of the biggest dealers in the state publicly refuses to take part (with Adam Kraut of 2AF behind him) it communicates to the Lege that we're prepared for the lawfare step. That only happens in person, in a group.

But you're right - they don't tend to care what we think individually. That's why they voted on and passed 4420 in July.

 

[Quantavious G]

Unfortunately, fear is man's greatest motivator. That is the psychology behind holding a rally. A huge crowd of agitated protestors has a visceral impact. It lets a legislator know on a subliminal level that the opposition is too great for their police detail to keep them safe. I'm sure BLM used that psychology successfully; they show up, they're loud, and usually the police are standing by - because of the fear factor.

We were none of those yesterday and, thus, we failed. On the other hand, it was a beautiful day and a very nice crowd of people. Really, the only police around were the BPD bagpipe team with no body armor or sidearms. That's how much of a perceived threat we were.

 

[richc]

Here's what I think of all this BS in-fighting...

 

[DarkJoker33]

I think there's a value to guys like @Cape Gun Works saying they will not comply in front of a crowd of hundreds. More value, in fact, than Jim saying the same a couple minutes later. When one of the biggest dealers in the state publicly refuses to take part (with Adam Kraut of 2AF behind him) it communicates to the Lege that we're prepared for the lawfare step. That only happens in person, in a group.

But you're right - they don't tend to care what we think individually. That's why they voted on and passed 4420 in July.

Not to be a dick, but during Rona ,weren't they only open for police departments and not the citizens?

I swear I recall something a long those lines

 

[Mesatchornug]

Not to be a dick, but during Rona ,weren't they only open for police departments and not the citizens?

I swear I recall something a long those lines

I don't know what he did then.

I know what he said yesterday and at Greenfield.

 

[Coyote33]

That's why they voted on and passed 4420 in July.

???

 

[Mesatchornug]

???

 

[DarkJoker33]

Not to be a dick, but during Rona ,weren't they only open for police departments and not the citizens?

I swear I recall something a long those lines

Comm2A, SAF, GOAL and FPC file against Baker admin on shop closures

Comm2A, SAF, GOAL and FPC file against Baker admin on shop closures

 

[pastera]

Unfortunately, fear is man's greatest motivator. That is the psychology behind holding a rally. A huge crowd of agitated protestors has a visceral impact. It lets a legislator know on a subliminal level that the opposition is too great for their police detail to keep them safe. I'm sure BLM used that psychology successfully; they show up, they're loud, and usually the police are standing by - because of the fear factor.

We were none of those yesterday and, thus, we failed. On the other hand, it was a beautiful day and a very nice crowd of people. Really, the only police around were the BPD bagpipe team with no body armor or sidearms. That's how much of a perceived threat we were.

Cops know that legal gun owners are zero threat to the public at large.

Even those that don't comply with the BS laws still are no threat so why should cops bother.

They were pretty laid back in 2013 also and that time we weren't on the common to the majority was armed.

 

[calsdad]

Not everyone is in a position to take a random Wednesday off with a months notice. If you want numbers it has to be the weekend even if they aren't in session.

This. My own personal life is bounded by a whole bunch of different realities - gun ownership and MA laws regarding such just being one of them.

In 2016 I was working a job I had been at for 13 years and had 45 days a year off time I could take off. Even if it was during a weekday ( I don't really remember now) - I had enough days to throw away that attending a protest or rally and eating up a day meant next to nothing. Now - I'm two layoffs later and have 3 weeks of vacation time a year (15 days) and I have a kid in the house who wasn't there before and my wife also got laid off twice during those intervening years. So I'm behind a much bigger eight ball than I was 7 years ago.

I'm personally also of the opinion that - protests don't accomplish much, unless they're like 10's of thousands. Even then - I don't recall much of anything changing from a "peaceful" protest. I'm also much less inclined to obey whatever laws they pass anyway. After Healey's crap with AR-15s a few years back - where she essentially told me I was now a felon for obeying what had previously been the law - and had been the law across the entire country during earlier years - I give much fewer craps less about what "the law" is.

That's a nice law you all are thinking of passing there - I hope you don't expect me to actually obey it.

 

[Uzi2]

 

[Da_lucche]

I was there at the massive 2012 really after Sandy hook. Yes that rally really did shit all 4 years later in 2016 for Massachusetts gun rights didn't it? In 2016, I was there at the rally after Healey's bullshit...what did that rally change? People still call up certain MA gun shops and use coded language to ask if they sell AR lowers. At that point, I said f*** MA. When I had a restricted ltc, I concealed carried anyways. I left my stocks unpinned, left my muzzle devices removable, etc. I knew damn well another rally wasn't changing shit in Massachusetts and I stopped giving a shit about MA gun laws in general.

 

[Picton]

When I had a restricted ltc, I concealed carried anyways. I left my stocks unpinned, left my muzzle devices removable. I knew damn well another rally wasn't changing shit in Massachusetts and I stopped giving a shit about MA law.

I, too, used to carry on a restricted LTC. All the infringements are silly and unconstitutional; there's a point where they're also just flat-out nonsensical. I don't bother obeying them at around that point. I still do renew my LTC (because it's how you keep buying) and I still use my safe because I have little kids, but most of the rest of this stuff can piss up a rope.

Hey Maura! I bet if I dug around in my parts box, I might even be in constructive possession of a folding stock for my Daewoo! MERCY ME! Commence pearl-clutching. Crime rate: increased.

 

[Junior314]

look at all this infighting. Ain’t no way in hell we will fight another revolution let alone win one… too many people won’t be able to miss work to fight it

Can you imagine the look on Paul Revere’s face…..” the British are coming the British are coming!!!”

Colonist - “ Sorry Hoss, can’t miss work. Let me know how you make out though.”

That’s precisely what 97% of the population at the time did.

ETA: Joke went over my head.

 

[Grendizer138]

I was there at the massive 2012 really after Sandy hook. Yes that rally really did shit all 4 years later in 2016 for Massachusetts gun rights didn't it? In 2016, I was there at the rally after Healey's bullshit...what did that rally change? People still call up certain MA gun shops and use coded language to ask if they sell AR lowers. At that point, I said f*** MA. When I had a restricted ltc, I concealed carried anyways. I left my stocks unpinned, left my muzzle devices removable, etc. I knew damn well another rally wasn't changing shit in Massachusetts and I stopped giving a shit about MA gun laws in general.

YES!

 

[Uzi2]

That’s precisely what 97% of the population at the time did.

ETA: Joke went over my head.

But you forgot the 20-30% of the population back then who supported the 3% that actually mustered with guns and did the fighting.

Any soldier in the field is pretty much useless "long term" without continued support from some type of rear element supply chain.

Cannons, muskets, powder, shot, flour, salt, lard, clothing, boots, horses, saddles, tack gear, rope, belts, tents, blankets, canvas, haversacks, tanned hides, powder horns, hats, gloves, cooking pots, tools, wagons and wagon wheels, flints, gunsmithing, paper.....none of this stuff "grew on trees", they were supplied in some quantity however slim, by some segment of the non rifle toting population.

Today, you couldn't drag the average Massachusetts dumb shit away from their cell phone long enough to inform them that government's boot is about to close off their windpipe.

 

[hpm]

The real question becomes whether the tanks, mortars and machine guns at the American Heritage Museum has actual ammunition for those weapons/vehicles squirreled away! If so, things at the State House could get a LOT more interesting.

Some side effects:
If one would show up at the State House with the Soviet era tanks, the commies would come running out with open arms, thinking the takeover has finally happened.
Take the huge German SS Division half track and the Governor might think her State Police detail arrived in proper transportation to pick her up.

 

[SgtHal75]

That’s precisely what 97% of the population at the time did.

ETA: Joke went over my head.

Maybe not 97% but definetily a 1/3rd of population did

 

[Picton]

Cannons, muskets, powder, shot, flour, salt, lard, clothing, boots, horses, saddles, tack gear, rope, belts, tents, blankets, canvas, haversacks, tanned hides, powder horns, hats, gloves, cooking pots, tools, wagons and wagon wheels, flints, gunsmithing, paper.....none of this stuff "grew on trees", they were supplied in some quantity however slim, by some segment of the non rifle toting population.

Most of that wasn't donated. It was sold, or stolen (sorry, "requisitioned") by the Continental Army. Prices rose sharply during the war. Those suppliers were making plenty of money.

 

[pastera]

It sounds like he’s been doing this for awhile, and maybe there was a time when these processes worked; but Massachusetts has gone so far to the left in the past 5-10 years that traditional tactics no longer work.

I have been at it for a while - part of the reason that Mass has moved so far so fast is that people, myself included, got complacent and busy with life consequently let off pressure while the left, fat and happy sucking at the teats of our tax dollar, continued the fight in earnest.

My kids are grown and through college - my hopes were that I would be able to bail out of Mass around the time they both graduated so that they didn't settle into good jobs in the area. Unfortunately that hasn't happened and I'm not willing to abandon my kids so I'm stuck here for the time being. Therefore it's time again to fight the good fight

It'sTime2a.org needs to be reconstituted

I think it hasn’t registered yet with some of our older members…or maybe it has judging by the turnout.

I think it's more the fact that those over 50 generally have more time and ability to attend a mid week, day time rally.
Also add in the ever present knowledge of what was done to people for Jan 6, even those who didn't even enter the capitol or those convicted while hundreds of miles away.
How many didn't attend simply because they were afraid of what it could cause at their next LTC renewal?

 

[Uzi2]

Most of that wasn't donated. It was sold, or stolen (sorry, "requisitioned") by the Continental Army. Prices rose sharply during the war. Those suppliers were making plenty of money.

Irrelevant.
The people giving, selling or stealing supplies for those in the field were still supporting those soldiers and their cause.

My point was, there was a lot more than just 3% fighting the war.

 

[rogersmithiii]

It’s people like you for the place we are today. Excuse for everything in the book. Take more time writing back to me than it woulda taken to go in Boston.
Whatever bro. There is way more of your sorry Ass’s than me, so you win the prize of giving up your and my constitutional rights.
I’m sorry for being a normal adult who has a decent job where I can take a day off to try and protect my rights when we knew about this for a MONTH. Well even if I didn’t I would have been there to protect my rights. I’m sorry I paid for someone to get my kids off the bus. And I’m sorry I have a father who could take my girls to thier sports after school.. this is The difference between us.
I will do whatever it takes to protect my rights.
I just don’t wanna hear from all you whining and bitching like usuall when the hammer drops.
Oh yah wtf did you mean on your first post…you’re going to 9/11 me or some shit. WTF does that even mean.

I don't go to marches, rallies, protests or public demonstrations. Too much risk of some leftist / Anarchist instigating violence, or doing something nasty, and then blaming it on us.

Add parking expense, traffic, the fact that Boston is no longer safe, and lost time and wages, I decided to pass.

I have called my state reps twice since this nonsense surfaced and will call again when Day and his tofu-farting colleagues start work again.

 

[EMTDAD]

I also was there in 2016 with my then 12yo son. Best thing to come out of that rally was showing my son his right to peacefully assemble. Otherwise, it changed nothing. It gave us all a sense of doing something, but really didn't move the needle at all.

I did see my Rep Scanlon at the North Attleboro Block Party last Wed and gave him a piece of my mind. All I got back in response was a nervous twitch and "were working to make something more palatable" canned, repeated response.

 

[Picton]

Irrelevant.
The people giving, selling or stealing supplies for those in the field were still supporting those soldiers and their cause.

My point was, there was a lot more than just 3% fighting the war.

I'm not talking about the people stealing on the army's behalf. I'm talking about the people producing the stolen goods.

I think that if the Army comes and steals your cows, leaving you with no recourse, it's a stretch to say you're "supporting the war effort."

Along those lines, let's say a bus driver takes a load of NESers to this rally. He's an anti. It's a stretch to say he "supports" our efforts, even though he drove us there. He's doing it because he's paid to, or because his boss compelled him to.

 

[LuvDog]

Hey Maura! I bet if I dug around in my parts box, I might even be in constructive possession of a folding stock for my Daewoo! MERCY ME! Commence pearl-clutching. Crime rate: increased.

You might as well put that stock on the Daewoo, it's specifically called out anyway so what difference would the stock make

 

[HorizontalHunter]

I also was there in 2016 with my then 12yo son. Best thing to come out of that rally was showing my son his right to peacefully assemble. Otherwise, it changed nothing. It gave us all a sense of doing something, but really didn't move the needle at all.

I did see my Rep Scanlon at the North Attleboro Block Party last Wed and gave him a piece of my mind. All I got back in response was a nervous twitch and "were working to make something more palatable" canned, repeated response.

That is a terrifying response when you think about it.

 

[Picton]

You might as well put that stock on the Daewoo, it's specifically called out anyway so what difference would the stock make

Hypothetically, Maura, I tried it that way. I find I shoot it better with the fixed stock. It's not preban; it's in a safely-neutered MA configuration as long as the stock is fixed. For the children.

If I shot it better with a folding stock on there, you better believe it would be wearing a folding stock. Hypothetically.

 

[pastera]

I don't go to marches, rallies, protests or public demonstrations. Too much risk of some leftist / Anarchist instigating violence, or doing something nasty, and then blaming it on us.

Add parking expense, traffic, the fact that Boston is no longer safe, and lost time and wages, I decided to pass.

I have called my state reps twice since this nonsense surfaced and will call again when Day and his tofu-farting colleagues start work again.

This is the most powerful part - We need thousands of people ready to invest 5-10 minutes to make phone calls at the ready.
Blowing up the phones is how 4420 got shelved.
Start with your own Reps requesting a call back, then call every one of those who signed onto the bill to crush their office. After that start calling those reps that are vocally supporting us to give them support (and if you can drop $20 into their coffers that helps too)

The key is relentless and overwhelming responses on short notice from GOAL that Jim can use as a weapon.

If you take up 5 minutes of an assistants time that's not much out of your day but if 100 people a day do it for a week that's 8 hours just answering phone calls. Zero work done along with the frustration of listening to a constant stream of "I'm so-and-so and I oppose your support of..."