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Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting
- Thread starter Buck F
- Start date
Pressing charges will be about legal vs illegal. However the fallout of the situation will be right and wrong and laws will be removed or rewritten based on public opinion. When those laws are altered, it will then be tougher for someone who legit needs them. Agree on the Cop situation, but a Cop has a different set of laws on his/her side.
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The police could have written it thusly:
"Normally, we would charge someone in a situation like this unless that person was an off duty police officer, in which case we would rule it a justified shooting. Thanks to the stand your ground law, an ordinary citizen is being afforded the same consideration and protection that a well connected government servant would receive."
"Normally, we would charge someone in a situation like this unless that person was an off duty police officer, in which case we would rule it a justified shooting. Thanks to the stand your ground law, an ordinary citizen is being afforded the same consideration and protection that a well connected government servant would receive."
I saw a lot of comments that he was an elderly disabled guy, but i could not find any of that in the couple articles that appeared on my screen, and since we trust MSM to give full and accurate pro 2a information, perhaps he was indeed disabled and that is why so few articles are saying it.
If you happen by a legit source on that please share, i may tone my post down a bit.
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For example, Jack Daniels.
Ooh an expert analyst!
Not sure what a jury would think, but seems murky enough for it to go to court and let them decide.
Legal or not, I have a very low opinion of anyone who conceal carries and goes out looking for petty confrontations. Wannabe cops with fragile egos should leave their guns in the safe.
Legal or not, I have a very low opinion of anyone who conceal carries and goes out looking for petty confrontations. Wannabe cops with fragile egos should leave their guns in the safe.
That is not legal justification for the use of deadly force. You can’t use deadly force because someone might be going to get a weapon and thus might have the ability to be a deadly threat at some point in the future.
You can only use deadly force if you are inimmediate dangernof death or grave bodily injury.
Couple of things.
- The shooter had been blindsided and had the shootee standing over him when he drew. That's likely adequate fear that his life was in danger to justify deadly force.
- The sheriff's analysis notwithstanding, "Stand Your Ground" laws have nothing to do with this. The shooter was on the ground with the shootee standing over him. He had no real means of escape.
- The sheriff may not be preferring charges, but that does nothing to prevent the local DA from doing so at his convenience. "The sheriff said I can go" and a dollar leaves you short of money for a small Starbucks.
- A number of people seem to think the shooter sat up, drew, thought about it, and fired after the shootee backed away. But, really, two seconds isn't a lot of time if you're dazed from the fall and in an adrenaline rush. For all we know, the shooter may have had terrible trigger discipline and popped the shootee while fumbling around with the trigger. Or, he may have been continually flailing away trying to get his finger on the trigger as soon as the gun cleared the holster. You'll never be able to tell from the video.
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AHM
NES Member
Thankew.
Just looking at the sequence of events speaks volumes,
even without analyzing everything down to the inch and millisecond.
This video really shows that it's a bad idea to dabble in stupid games,
thinking "if the situation gets out of hand, I'll just put the worms back in the can".
When things went south, they went south in a hurry.
Everybody involved was caught by surprise at some point.
Movie/TV gunfights don't play out this fast -
the audience couldn't process it.
BTW, I wonder how many $K of CCW training Drejka invested in,
and where he trained? Because it seems to me that
he went robotic as soon as he hit the ground.
It's really regrettable that we might conclude that many folks
wouldn't have wanted to associate with any of the three principals in real life.
Yet sides will be taken and battle lines drawn because of the potential repercussions.
AHM
NES Member
Some Wikipedian abstracted from United States v. Peterson:
Antagonists who intend to fall back upon claims of self-defense
while baiting people, hoping to justify it by arguing
"well, I didn't utter fighting words"
could be in for a disappointment at trial.
At best, they may beat the rap,
but they won't beat the ride.
At worst, the court may take a dim view of their antagonism.
And OBTW, gedda loada the NH locus in the case law of "fighting words".
So you have some info we don't? I didn't hear any audio, and you seem to be thinking that he was out there screaming and threatening people with no proof. Seems equally likely he was discussing this issue with the woman calmly, and this guy came out ready for a fight. If she felt threatened why would she stay there, and not either drive away or otherwise get away from him?
Being an a**h*** isn't criminal, and no matter how someone else feels about it they don't get to attack you and then pretend you are the aggressor.
So next time you are talking with someone, and get in a small argument, or heated discussion better keep an eye out. Since you don't seem to think you can defend yourself when their thug boyfriend ambushes you and is in a position to cause your death.
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FIFY
No one wants to know about laws...They want to know how race was a factor.
AHM
NES Member
I Googled the two words ``Drejka previously''.
Lo and behold:
ABC Action News
WFTS Tampa Bay
By: WFTS Webteam, Michael Paluska, Adam Winer
Posted: 4:20 PM, Jul 19, 2018
Updated: 2:36 PM, Jul 23, 2018
The store owner tells ABC Action News that Drejka has a history of assaulting people in the very parking lot the shooting took place. A man who frequents the store told ABC Action News he had a run-in with the man who opened fire just one month ago.
Rich Kelly says the man picked a fight with him over a parking spot, using racial slurs, and even threatening to kill him.
Other stories contain Kelly's actual account.
Bay News 9 Spectrum News
By Dave Jordan | July 24, 2018 @3:10 PM
CLEARWATER, Fla. -- Weeks before Michael Drejka, 47, shot and killed Markeis McGlockton, 28, over a parking spot, he crossed paths with Richard Kelly.
Kelly, who drives a septic tank, briefly parked his tanker in this handicapped spot outside the Circle A Food Store before running inside this store for a beverage. When he came out, he saw Drejka taking pictures of his vehicle.
"He asked me (if) was I handicapped, and I said, 'Obviously, I'm driving a tanker. I'm not handicapped.' And I asked if was he handicapped and he stated 'No, my mom is,'" Kelly said.
Kelly asked Drejka if his mom was nearby and offered to move his tanker. That’s when he says Drejka became furious.
"He flipped out on me called me every n-word, said he's going to shoot me," Kelly said. "He said he was going to kill me, and he went back to his truck, got something out of his truck and walked back up on me."
Store owner Ali Salous came out and shut down the confrontation.
I know what you mean.
If my wife ever gets pinned down by terrorist action at the mall,
I don't ask that she wait for me to fight through the hail of bullets
to be by her side -
I just ask that she link up with me in the bar
at Smokey Bones across the parking lot.
I'll try and hold a seat for her,
but no promises.
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fencer
NES Member
So what do you think he had planned when he was advancing on the guy? Think he was going to help the guy up and apologize? Maybe ask him if he wanted to grab a beer.
NO!!!!! A million times NO!!!!
The basic legal justification for the use of deadly force is similar throughout most of the nation. You can only use deadly force if you reasonably believe you are in immediate danger of death or grave bodily injury.
If the threat has stopped and the perp is leaving the scene, you can’t keep shooting because “he might be going to get a gun.” That is true in MA and also IN ALMOST EVERY OTHER STATE. Yes, I’m shouting.
I simply don’t understand why this is so hard for people to understand. Please read Andrew Branca’s book, the Law of Self Defense.
Please note, I’m not passing judgment on this incident. I’m only responding to the assertion that his attorney might claim that he shot because the attacker might be leaving to get a gun — that is simply not legal justification for the use of deadly force.
Oh for goodness sakes.
Self defense laws in MA are not very different than in most of the states.
There are some states with stand your ground laws. MA, like many states, requires you to retreat if you are outside your home AND it is safe to do so.
Some states allow you to presume that someone inside your home is a deadly threat. MA, like many states, does not.
But that is basically it. There is a myth here on NES that somehow self defense laws in MA are different than in most states. That simply isn’t true. The basics are the same. You must reasonably believe that you are in immediate danger of death or grave bodily injury to justifiably use deadly force.
Those basic concepts — that the threat must rise to the level of death or grave bodily injury, and that the threat must be immediate — are similar in most states.
You keep saying that self defense law is different in MA. It isn’t.
fencer
NES Member
The laws in Mass are certainly the same as in most other states. But the anti gun establishment that runs the judicial system in the state, from law enforcement, prosecutors, to judges and sadly, even juries, sure do seem to prosecute the licensed gun owner far more readily than other states. Maybe it is just my perception, and I have no statistics or cites to support my claim, but I feel Mass shits on gun owners at a dis proportionally higher rate than all but a few states.
AHM
NES Member
Paul Langone probably has an opinion on that.
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In the video it looks like the guy who shoved the shooter is advancing on him after he's on the ground. I'm not
arguing that it was unreasonable at that point for the shooter to defend himself. But I think it's a problem that he's allowed to prowl the parking lot armed and searching out a confrontation where he can bait someone into battering him so he can use his gun. The shooter bears a lot of responsibility for repeatedly trying to incite this exact situation which went down. It's pretty clear he was hoping just such a reaction would eventually be provoked by his actions.
arguing that it was unreasonable at that point for the shooter to defend himself. But I think it's a problem that he's allowed to prowl the parking lot armed and searching out a confrontation where he can bait someone into battering him so he can use his gun. The shooter bears a lot of responsibility for repeatedly trying to incite this exact situation which went down. It's pretty clear he was hoping just such a reaction would eventually be provoked by his actions.
It is?
This is just crap all around. I have to go with the previously mentioned assertion that this is three people that I wouldn’t want to associate with all meeting up at the same wrong place and time.
There are so many things people can do to avoid this crap everyday. Cool heads prevail people.
1. Don’t park in handicap spots if not handicap(even if your SO is just running in for some candy with lil Tommy)
2. Don’t patrol parking lots like an ass, looking for confrontation. A gun for this chump became an exo skeletal defense mechanism. He doesn’t confront anyone, about anything, unless he’s carrying. He creates problems, as evidenced by his previous actions.
3. Don’t yell at people(guy was obviously yelling) if he’s just politely asking her to move, this doesn’t happen. Diffuse the situation.
4. Don’t shove people who are yelling. Ask what the problem is first. Diffuse the situation.
5. Don’t shoot someone for shoving you. It was a hard shove, that’s it. No fists, no weapons, no kicking on the ground, he didn’t jump on you right after. He wasn’t looking for more or he would have followed up quick. You got put on your ass and didn’t like it. Don’t be a bitch.
Overall, this guy didn’t deserve to die. Totally innocent? No. Worthy of being shot to death? Hell no.
Bad shoot.
There are so many things people can do to avoid this crap everyday. Cool heads prevail people.
1. Don’t park in handicap spots if not handicap(even if your SO is just running in for some candy with lil Tommy)
2. Don’t patrol parking lots like an ass, looking for confrontation. A gun for this chump became an exo skeletal defense mechanism. He doesn’t confront anyone, about anything, unless he’s carrying. He creates problems, as evidenced by his previous actions.
3. Don’t yell at people(guy was obviously yelling) if he’s just politely asking her to move, this doesn’t happen. Diffuse the situation.
4. Don’t shove people who are yelling. Ask what the problem is first. Diffuse the situation.
5. Don’t shoot someone for shoving you. It was a hard shove, that’s it. No fists, no weapons, no kicking on the ground, he didn’t jump on you right after. He wasn’t looking for more or he would have followed up quick. You got put on your ass and didn’t like it. Don’t be a bitch.
Overall, this guy didn’t deserve to die. Totally innocent? No. Worthy of being shot to death? Hell no.
Bad shoot.
Correct on all points, including your conclusion. Bad shoot. Perhaps it was technically legal- don't care, still a bad shoot.
If someone were yelling like that at my wife, they would have exactly as much time to disengage until I reached them. Can't say that I would not have shoved the guy just like the shooting victim did. Under similar circumstances if the gun went 'click' I sure as hell would have dispatched the guy so that he wouldn't get another chance to make the gun go 'boom'.
Yes, avoid such crap as best you can. If you do find yourself in an unavoidable situation, finish the job and make sure some pussy doesn't shoot you after getting a well deserved ass kicking. Seems like for the last couple decades, many of the shootings and stabbings are the result of some sore loser not being able to take an ass kicking like a man.
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