Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting

Was the shooter the towns official handicap parking spot defender as well? After watching the news story, the man that pushed the guy down, perked up and started backing up when he was shot. At best, his forward progress had halted before he was shot. I think in the end, the shooter was the trouble maker, you mouth off at my girl I'll put you on the ground as well. If you're not a cop it's not your job to give someone shit for using a handicap spot. Was his life in danger? It'll be tough to sell that..
 
whacko said:
Convicted of what?!? The title....and the article.....say he wasn't arrested or charged so.....
Click to expand...

Maybe not likely but the AG could charge him with something, Just saying

"I don't make the law. I enforce the law," Pinellas County Sheriff Bob Gualtieri said during a news conference today. "The law in the state of Florida today is that people have a right to stand their ground and have a right to defend themselves when they believe that they are in harm."

The sheriff announced the case will be sent to the state attorney's office for review.

"This will go to the state attorney. Drejka will not be charged [and] will not be arrested by us," Sheriff Gualtieri said. "The state attorney will review it and either he’ll concur or not. And, if he concurs, then there’ll be no charge. Period. If he doesn’t concur, then he’ll make a determination as to what to do with it. And, if he feels like he can overcome that heavy burden at a Stand Your Ground hearing of proving by clear and convincing evidence that Drejka was not entitled to use force in this circumstance, then that’s the state attorney’s determination to make."
 
Yeah, whatever. No shit the guy backed off when he saw the gun. But you can bet your ass if he heard "click" he would have turned around and beat the guy to death with his own gun.
Zero f***s given. Well not exactly true... does anyone know what caliber he was packing? Brand of ammo? One shot stop, pretty good.
 
dont-start-nothing-wont-be-nothing.jpg
 
fencer said:
Yeah, whatever. No shit the guy backed off when he saw the gun. But you can bet your ass if he heard "click" he would have turned around and beat the guy to death with his own gun.
Zero f***s given. Well not exactly true... does anyone know what caliber he was packing? Brand of ammo? One shot stop, pretty good.
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Barring being drunk or on drugs anyone would stop moving upon being shot in the chest I would think.
 
Hugh_Jazz said:
Pardon me I forgot to mention adrenaline. In this mans case (Florida) shoving around an older guy to the floor wouldn’t require much in adrenaline. This man in Chicago is the exception not the rule.
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The simple truth is that while humans can be fragile, we can also be incredibly robust. We have piles of stories of guys who die from little more than a stubbed toe, and others with dudes that take a .357 to the skull and survive.

Further, assuming that one will find themselves in a situation that merits the use of deadly force, but somehow the involved parties won't be adrenalized is...interesting.

You keep assuming that one shot to the chest will do the job; I'm going to recommend that my students shoot until the threat stops.
 
When I am armed I do whatever I can do to avoid a confrontation. I certainly wouldn't get into an argument over a parking spot. Both guys got what they were looking for. To top it off the 5 year old gets to wake up to the horror of seeing his father die every night.
 
Mesatchornug said:
The simple truth is that while humans can be fragile, we can also be incredibly robust. We have piles of stories of guys who die from little more than a stubbed toe, and others with dudes that take a .357 to the skull and survive.

Further, assuming that one will find themselves in a situation that merits the use of deadly force, but somehow the involved parties won't be adrenalized is...interesting.

You keep assuming that one shot to the chest will do the job; I'm going to recommend that my students shoot until the threat stops.
Click to expand...
No one is assuming anything. You’re the one “assuming” that I’m saying that it only takes one shot to the chest to stop anyone. I am not saying that. What I am saying is that any Joe Shmoe off the street would get shot in the chest and stop and think “oh shit I’ve been shot”. I obviously can’t speak about you in this situation, but yes everyone is built differently and would react differently. But as I mentioned earlier, barring being on drugs, drunk, or running on pure adrenaline getting shot is gonna make you stop what you’re doing and re-evaluate your decision.
 
Hugh_Jazz said:
No one is assuming anything. You’re the one “assuming” that I’m saying that it only takes one shot to the chest to stop anyone. I am not saying that. What I am saying is that any Joe Shmoe off the street would get shot in the chest and stop and think “oh shit I’ve been shot”. I obviously can’t speak about you in this situation, but yes everyone is built differently and would react differently. But as I mentioned earlier, barring being on drugs, drunk, or running on pure adrenaline getting shot is gonna make you stop what you’re doing and re-evaluate your decision.
Click to expand...
you're not assuming anything...but "getting shot is gonna make you stop [...] and re-evaluate."

I'll grant this - if you're walking down the street, and you get shot in the chest, there's a high likelihood you'll notice, and respond as described.

If, however, you're in a fight, there are far too many variables to make any realistic assumptions. And the assumption that both parties in a heated encounter are not under the effects of adrenaline is simply unrealistic. Being relatively large, young, and fit doesn't relieve you of basic bodily reactions. The alarm response is not a conscious one.

Here's another example - Paul Ali Slater: Intruder shot five times in face and neck after cornering mother and her two kids in attic | Daily Mail Online

If the target hasn't collapsed from exsanguination (which takes time) there's no way to know how they will respond. This isn't a movie.
 
Mesatchornug said:
you're not assuming anything...but "getting shot is gonna make you stop [...] and re-evaluate."

I'll grant this - if you're walking down the street, and you get shot in the chest, there's a high likelihood you'll notice, and respond as described.

If, however, you're in a fight, there are far too many variables to make any realistic assumptions. And the assumption that both parties in a heated encounter are not under the effects of adrenaline is simply unrealistic. Being relatively large, young, and fit doesn't relieve you of basic bodily reactions. The alarm response is not a conscious one.

Here's another example - Paul Ali Slater: Intruder shot five times in face and neck after cornering mother and her two kids in attic | Daily Mail Online

If the target hasn't collapsed from exsanguination (which takes time) there's no way to know how they will respond. This isn't a movie.
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We’ll agree to disagree, but I find the video speaks to what I said. For all we know the shooter could of shot him with a .380, what ever it was it stopped what was happening.
 
He is accused of killing someone in a parking spot dispute. Authorities say he was standing his ground.

Hate the wp site, here is the cliffs notes:

Britany Jacobs sat parked in the handicap spot, right in the middle of Michael Drejka’s pet peeve.
-------------
Also in the lot was Drejka, a regular at the Circle A who regularly took issue with able-bodied people parking in the reserved spot. He circled Jacob’s car, looking for a handicap decal and, finding none, proceeded to forcefully explain to her the finer points of Florida’s disabled parking regulations.
-------------
pointing to previous complaints the sheriff’s office has received about him.
A few months ago, according to the Tampa Bay Times, Rick Kelly parked his tanker truck in the same handicapped spot and said he was confronted by Drejka.
Drejka walked around his truck, looking for handicap decals, then demanded to know why Kelly had parked there, the trucker told the Tampa Bay Times. At one point Drejka threatened to shoot Kelly.

So what this comes down to is:
1) the bitch parked (although did not leave the car) in a handicapped spot - subtle but started this event
2) Drejka likes to play parking cop, and in my opinion, was empowered by carrying.
3) Dude sees a guy in his wife's/baby mommas face, i think most of us here would have taken care of business in that situation, one way or another.

By the way, Drejka is not elderly or handicapped. He is a 47 year old man that regularly plays parking cop.

I think we can all agree that this situation does not help maintain stand your ground laws.

PS: Drejka was not "standing his ground" when he drew and fired his weapon, he was clearly sitting in the video. [smile]
 
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Noreaster78 said:
He is accused of killing someone in a parking spot dispute. Authorities say he was standing his ground.

Hate the wp site, here is the cliffs notes:

Britany Jacobs sat parked in the handicap spot, right in the middle of Michael Drejka’s pet peeve.
-------------
Also in the lot was Drejka, a regular at the Circle A who regularly took issue with able-bodied people parking in the reserved spot. He circled Jacob’s car, looking for a handicap decal and, finding none, proceeded to forcefully explain to her the finer points of Florida’s disabled parking regulations.
-------------
pointing to previous complaints the sheriff’s office has received about him.
A few months ago, according to the Tampa Bay Times, Rick Kelly parked his tanker truck in the same handicapped spot and said he was confronted by Drejka.
Drejka walked around his truck, looking for handicap decals, then demanded to know why Kelly had parked there, the trucker told the Tampa Bay Times. At one point Drejka threatened to shoot Kelly.

So what this comes down to is:
1) the bitch parked (although did not leave the car) in a handicapped spot - subtle but started this event
2) Drejka likes to play parking cop, and in my opinion, was empowered by carrying.
3) Dude sees a guy in his wife's/baby mommas face, i think most of us here would have taken care of business in that situation, one way or another.

By the way, Drejka is not elderly or handicapped. He is a 47 year old man that regularly plays parking cop.

I think we can all agree that this situation does not help maintain stand your ground laws.

PS: Drejka was not "standing his ground" when he drew and fired his weapon, he was clearly sitting in the video. [smile]
Click to expand...


While it may have been a dick move, My reaction to someone yelling at my wife is not to physically attack them, nor throw them to the ground. I would be having words with them, but escalation begets escalation. I carry not to go out killing people, but so that if I get blindsided by some guy who is turning a verbal disagreement into a fight I have the chance to protect my life. This guy may have been a jerk, and may have been playing amateur parking cop, but neither of those things is any reason for thuggy mcthuggerson to go hands on.

In essence, if they don't park illegally to avoid walking ten feet further, he is still alive today. If he decides to ask some questions, or otherwise verbally get into it with that guy instead of assaulting him, he is alive today. There were failures on both sides, but the guy who died made his own bed here, and I am not going to assume a guy who will slam me to the ground for an argument he isn't a part of, knows nothing about, and and makes no attempt to find out beforehand is going to stop before curb stomping me while I'm down.
 
hminsky said:
I don't think the stand your ground law ought to apply to someone who goes around initiating confrontations. Justice is not served.
Click to expand...

So the fact that he has a gun means he doesn't get to have a voice on anything else? He may have initiated an argument, but the guy who turned it into a fight is the one with the blame here. He didn't pull his gun and wave it at the woman in the car, he didn't strike her, he didn't threaten her, yet he was assaulted.
 
From NESer @Law of Self Defense:

Legal Insurrection: Law of Self Defense VIDEO: Just because it’s lawful to present the gun doesn’t mean it’s lawful to press the trigger
Posted by Andrew Branca
Friday, July 20, 2018 at 9:00pm

Hat tip: Instapundit.

Observations based upon this raw video:


  1. The elder McGlockton was allegedly in the convenience store with his son, buying candy. Why did he exit the store, leaving his son behind? Did someone enter into the store and comment that there was a loud argument in the parking lot about handicapped parking? If so, how did they describe the situation? Was it a true description, or was it an exaggeration?
  2. A bystander exited the store after the elder McGlockton. However, he tarried behind the door, watching McGlockton. When McGlockton accelerated towards Drejka (silently, because Drejka didn't react to his approach), the bystander abandoned the safety of the door and started following McGlockton. After McGlockton shoved Drejka to the ground, the bystander accelerated, presumably to defuse the fight. However when Drejka pulled the gun out, the bystander Noped behind a car a hell of a lot faster than McGlockton abandoned his advance.
  3. Drejka had really crappy situational awareness. He had 100% tunnel vision while upbraiding the girlfriend, until a split second before the shove. And he had laser-like focus on McGlockton from then on out. If you're going to start an argument with a total stranger about some anti-social behavior of theirs that doesn't directly affect you, how about keeping your head on a swivel to avoid getting blindsided by their boyfriend?
  4. Some of Andrew's commenters regard the bystander as at least presenting the appearance of being McGlockton's wingman from Drejka's perspective, hence ratcheting Drejka's fear of a 2-on-1 beating. However, the bystander Noped so promptly that it's not obvious to me that Drejka was even aware of him. And the bystander hadn't visibly done anything to ire Drejka - he wanted nothing to do with the situation once a gun was introduced (of course, few would). The bystander never reappears in frame even after McGlockton stumbles back into the store. Did the bystander hear someone mention the a loud argument in the parking lot? Did the bystander himself mention it, and then double back to see how the situation developed? Was the bystander a customer, or a store employee? (Some of Andrew's commenters discuss the bystander, too).
  5. The bystander bladed at 90 degrees while Noping.
  6. Drejka fired pretty quickly after pulling his gun and getting a bead, but it wasn't a shot from the hip (so to speak) by any means. That indicates a certain degree of deliberation on Drejka's part. Furthermore, Drejka kept McGlockton continuously well-covered after firing the shot - no flinching, no loss of concentration; he was evaluating whether more shots were necessary.
  7. One of Andrew's commenters opines that the girlfriend's body language after the shove indicates that she has no intention of defusing the fight. The diametric opposite would be that she's doubling down on the argument. But with no audio track, it's a gray area.
  8. One of Andrew's commenters highlights that McGlockton's body language after Drejka brandishes did not signal capitulation. He hadn't formed the intention to surrender to Drejka by the time he was shot. As drgrant observed, the bullet got inside his OODA loop. (And his brisket).
  9. All four of those people are playing a stupid game of one kind or another.
  10. ETA: I'd compare and contrast with an NES thread from months ago that takes place in a deserted business parking lot after store closing time. But I can't find it; it may have been deleted.
 
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firestorm said:
So the fact that he has a gun means he doesn't get to have a voice on anything else? He may have initiated an argument, but the guy who turned it into a fight is the one with the blame here. He didn't pull his gun and wave it at the woman in the car, he didn't strike her, he didn't threaten her, yet he was assaulted.
Click to expand...
If you are a psycho itching and begging for a fight and carrying a gun, then no, you do not have a voice. As I read it, this guy prowled the parking lot for months and months basically looking for an excuse to shoot someone.

The guy reminds me of English Bob

 
hminsky said:
As I read it, this guy prowled the parking lot for months and months basically looking for an excuse to shoot someone
Click to expand...

That's definitely what the girlfriend and the grievance industry are saying.

As I read it, he was disabled guy who shopped regularly at the store and frequently found the handicapped parking taken by a**h***s. ONCE (once) before the manager talked to him and the illegally parked person about a similar situation. A friend of the attackers babymama says she too was spoken to by the guy before but it sounds like a lot of bullshit. If the female felt threatened, why not move to another spot? Why get out of the car and approach him?

Watching the video he's standing 3-4 feet from the car, he's not waving his arms around much and doesn't seem to be out of control or yelling.

If I had a disability and an able bodied person took the handicap spot, I'd be pissed too. I might even calmly say something as he appears to have.
 
hminsky said:
If you are a psycho itching and begging for a fight and carrying a gun, then no, you do not have a voice. As I read it, this guy prowled the parking lot for months and months basically looking for an excuse to shoot someone.
Click to expand...
Frizzle Fry said:
That's definitely what the girlfriend and the grievance industry are saying.

As I read it, he was disabled guy who shopped regularly at the store and frequently found the handicapped parking taken by a**h***s. ONCE (once) before the manager talked to him and the illegally parked person about a similar situation. A friend of the attackers babymama says she too was spoken to by the guy before but it sounds like a lot of bullshit. If the female felt threatened, why not move to another spot? Why get out of the car and approach him?

Watching the video he's standing 3-4 feet from the car, he's not waving his arms around much and doesn't seem to be out of control or yelling.

If I had a disability and an able bodied person took the handicap spot, I'd be pissed too. I might even calmly say something as he appears to have.
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Sheriff: Parking spot shooting fits 'stand your ground' law

Another man says he had the same argument with the suspected shooter a month ago.

"He flipped out saying he would shoot me. So when I left he called the owner of my company stating he was going to kill me," Rich Kelly told WFTS.

Kelly says the man was upset he parked in a handicapped space.

It's also the same thing that Michael Drejka was upset about Thursday when he was yelling at a woman in the parking lot.​
 
whacko said:
Convicted of what?!? The title....and the article.....say he wasn't arrested or charged so.....
Click to expand...

When you 'arrest' someone, you generally have 48 hours to present the case due to some SCOTUS ruling or at least it's what I've been taught since day one. I've never questioned it, my case work is pretty damn simple, thankfully.

Found it:
Justices Say Suspects Can Be Held Up to 48 Hours Without Warrant

While there are exceptions, if you have a 'questionable' case, unless you can prove an absolute danger to the public, you can't just arrest someone and hold them indefinitely. The Sheriff is saying it meets the parameters of a SYG case, so no charges at this time. The state attorney can determine to file charges at a later time and not bust the 48 hour rule.

So this guy 'walking' doesn't mean he's free and clear, it just means the Sheriff doesn't have enough to hold him at this time. He was determined to not be a public threat. Charges can always be filed later in a homicide case.
 
Everyones caught up on the shooter being an a**h***.
Its not illegal to be an a**h***.
In Florida what he did may be legal.
Its not about right and wrong.

As far as this ass feeling empowered... he said whatever he wanted and used deadly force after being attacked....these are rights and not crimes.
Now should he have shot his attacker? I just think if a cop was in his shoes he would have and without a doubt the investigation would have found no wrong doing.... if the attacker had taken one step forward after the gun came out its 100% justified..even as depicted in the video it may be justified.
The attacker did come out of nowhere and attack him.
 
Noreaster78 said:
He is accused of killing someone in a parking spot dispute. Authorities say he was standing his ground.

Hate the wp site, here is the cliffs notes:

Britany Jacobs sat parked in the handicap spot, right in the middle of Michael Drejka’s pet peeve.
-------------
Also in the lot was Drejka, a regular at the Circle A who regularly took issue with able-bodied people parking in the reserved spot. He circled Jacob’s car, looking for a handicap decal and, finding none, proceeded to forcefully explain to her the finer points of Florida’s disabled parking regulations.
-------------
pointing to previous complaints the sheriff’s office has received about him.
A few months ago, according to the Tampa Bay Times, Rick Kelly parked his tanker truck in the same handicapped spot and said he was confronted by Drejka.
Drejka walked around his truck, looking for handicap decals, then demanded to know why Kelly had parked there, the trucker told the Tampa Bay Times. At one point Drejka threatened to shoot Kelly.

So what this comes down to is:
1) the bitch parked (although did not leave the car) in a handicapped spot - subtle but started this event
2) Drejka likes to play parking cop, and in my opinion, was empowered by carrying.
3) Dude sees a guy in his wife's/baby mommas face, i think most of us here would have taken care of business in that situation, one way or another.

By the way, Drejka is not elderly or handicapped. He is a 47 year old man that regularly plays parking cop.

I think we can all agree that this situation does not help maintain stand your ground laws.

PS: Drejka was not "standing his ground" when he drew and fired his weapon, he was clearly sitting in the video. [smile]
Click to expand...

hminsky said:
I don't think the stand your ground law ought to apply to someone who goes around initiating confrontations. Justice is not served.
Click to expand...

Someone else mentioned somewhere that Floridas SYG law explicitly states it is not applicable in the commission of a crime. (And then linked the statute text).

If Drejka can be found that he was harassing or otherwise instigating something that could be considered a crime (impersonating an officer) than the SYG defense immediately becomes inapplicable.

The question becomes will someone prosecute it this way? By not prosecuting and turning a blind eye to that little last scentance you can bet the FL legislature will remove the SYG law. By prosecuting it sends the message "all is working as intended" and will rile up the antis.
 

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