Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting

Mountain said:
... Seems like for the last couple decades, many of the shootings and stabbings are the result of some sore loser not being able to take an ass kicking like a man.
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Three punches. I have been in my fair share of scraps in my day am reasonably confident that if I land three solid punches to the head, the recipient of those punches is going to the hospital. And not just me, damn near any guy like me, with a little fighting experience and some size and strength, three solid punches will do incredible damage.
If the puncher is over 200 pounds and knows how to punch, it is lights out. Especially in the recipient is not on guard or eats a " sucker" punch. Hell, remember the " knockout game"?
Now clearly, getting pushed to the ground is not the same as getting punched in the face, but I have seen first hand, three punches break nose, cheek and orbital bone. And the Marine that took those punches was my size, 250lbs or so. The guy that beat him to the punch ( so to speak) was about 185lbs and knew how to swat.
Hollywood has us believe that the good guy, laying defenseless, can eat 8-10 shots to the face, get up and win a fight. Truth is, it would probably kill most people. Myself included. And if you have ever been caught with a shot like that to the head, you know the last thought that goes through your mind, as your ears are ringing and your vision is starting to fade to black, is, "oh shit... I am going out"
So, I can honestly say, I have no intentions of ever taking an ass kicking if I can avoid it.
 
fencer said:
Three punches. I have been in my fair share of scraps in my day am reasonably confident that if I land three solid punches to the head, the recipient of those punches is going to the hospital. And not just me, damn near any guy like me, with a little fighting experience and some size and strength, three solid punches will do incredible damage.
If the puncher is over 200 pounds and knows how to punch, it is lights out. Especially in the recipient is not on guard or eats a " sucker" punch. Hell, remember the " knockout game"?
Now clearly, getting pushed to the ground is not the same as getting punched in the face, but I have seen first hand, three punches break nose, cheek and orbital bone. And the Marine that took those punches was my size, 250lbs or so. The guy that beat him to the punch ( so to speak) was about 185lbs and knew how to swat.
Hollywood has us believe that the good guy, laying defenseless, can eat 8-10 shots to the face, get up and win a fight. Truth is, it would probably kill most people. Myself included. And if you have ever been caught with a shot like that to the head, you know the last thought that goes through your mind, as your ears are ringing and your vision is starting to fade to black, is, "oh shit... I am going out"
So, I can honestly say, I have no intentions of ever taking an ass kicking if I can avoid it.
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Good point- can't disagree there.
 
fencer said:
So what do you think he had planned when he was advancing on the guy? Think he was going to help the guy up and apologize? Maybe ask him if he wanted to grab a beer.
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Maybe kick him in the head? give him a hug? We don't know because the gun being pulled stopped the advance. My point is you can't kill someone based on what you think he might do. As of now the guy had no weapon.
 
Frizzle Fry said:
Yelling is assault? ...
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FindLaw: Florida Assault and Battery Laws

Florida Criminal Assault Law

Assault refers to a threat of harm that leads to the victim's fear of imminent harm. The offense does not include physical contact between the perpetrator and the victim. ...

Florida statutes establish specific offenses for simple assault, aggravated assault, and felony assault. The severity of the offense and the potential punishment depends on the type of assault charged by the state prosecutor.
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Why are you guys even arguing about this? I wish stuff like this would happen more often to thin out the retards walking among us. Markeis was a peice of shit thug he's dead and nobody will care. Another waste of carbon dead and gone in the wind.

I've said to buddies of mine that acted tough in public that one day you're gonna meet someone who may not necessarily be tougher but willing to go alot further than you and that will be your demise.
 
enough stupidity all around.

parking lot police man needs to stop about parking space policing.

Why is he yelling at people who park illegally? Call the cops and let them ticket or tow the person.

The discussion was between the Rambo wannabe and the lady. let them handle it. No need to initiate violence.

I do agree parking lot policeman feels that his balls are three time their normal size because he carries a gun.

Even so, no need for him to have to endure violence because the boyfriend is feeling protective.

As far as I know the woman wasn't in danger or being threatened. Maybe she wasn't happy someone was speaking to her in that way but she didn't appear to be threatened.

Anyway, I am never looking to get into anything when I carry. I carry for situations that might happen and become unavoidable.

no matter how this come out, gun owners are going to take some heat.
 
He obviously came out of the store knowing there was a situation going on (at least IMO based on his actions). Then the girlfriend gets out of the car putting her face to face with the guy. I have no issue with him separating the two of them but that push was uncalled for. I wasn't there so I can't say what when down but to me when the gun was produced, shitbag thought better of the situation took 2 small steps back and was turning away as he was shot. It's not a good shoot in my eye's but again, I wasn't there, and frankly don't care that much either way in this case.
 
Frizzle Fry said:
Yelling is assault? Physically attacking someone for yelling is OK?

Time to load up the beltfeds; lots of protesters are fair game I guess.
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If it's your wife, daughter, girlfriend- you're going to wait to see if someone in their face and yelling will attack them? I'd haul ass over there and tell the parking lot cop to step away NOW. As mentioned, he'd have as much time to disengage as it takes me to get there.

The world is not going to miss entitled @ssholes who grab a handicap spot, but it's still a bad shoot.
 
Kurtz said:
Maybe kick him in the head? give him a hug? We don't know because the gun being pulled stopped the advance. My point is you can't kill someone based on what you think he might do. As of now the guy had no weapon.
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Ah... yes you can. In almost every state in the country. " I thought he was going to kill me" is all it takes. " He knocked me to the ground and said, " I am gonna f***in kill you." Bang.
Guy kicks in your front door holding a knife and you think he is going to kill you? Bang. Maybe he wasn't there to kill you. Maybe he was just there to rape you. The world may never know... because, Bang.
Then you just have to convince the jury that they would have thought the guy was gonna kill you too.
 
Mountain said:
If it's your wife, daughter, girlfriend- you're going to wait to see if someone in their face and yelling will attack them? I'd haul ass over there and tell the parking lot cop to step away NOW. As mentioned, he'd have as much time to disengage as it takes me to get there.

The world is not going to miss entitled @ssholes who grab a handicap spot, but it's still a bad shoot.
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"In their face and yelling" yet far enough away that a car door can be opened in between them with plenty of dead air to boot? Yeah - I'm going to wait until there's violence or the threat of violence, because both under law and in general it's not OK to physically assault someone for using words unless those words are explicit threats of violence. What about if it's my son or husband, different code of conduct? Clearly she had balls enough to get out of the car - must've been terrified.
 
Qwikdraw45 said:
I was able to watch it on the local news website down here. Several more angles/scenes. The guy who got shot backed away when the assault victim drew his pistol. He did not advance, and appeared to be turning away (albeit slightly) to retreat at the time he was shot. As I say, I am all in favor of SYG/defending yourself; I'm just tired of all the people who shoot after, when the perpetrator is retreating, since those are the ones who make it bad for all the rest of us. Just my .02 based on the videos I saw.
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Maybe the dead douche, shouldn't have been a douche to start? Maybe if he didn't initiate the assault, he'd still be alive.

The douche, in this case, wasn't retreating fast enough when the gun came out. In my opinion, if I draw on you, and you don't run, you're still a threat. You're doubly a threat, if you just knocked my ass to the ground, and you're still on your feet....

IIRC, cops can shoot you in the back whilst you flee, because of some Tenessee court case. Or do they get special rulez? No, don't answer that if you wear a badge, IDGAF what your answer is.
 
I said and only me, You do what you want so just my opinion before I get schooled here. My Opinion is, if you are carrying do not look for trouble, do not start any trouble, do not argue with people, just walk away, do not get into a situation like this one because if you do you, know you have a deadly weapon and any stupid situation like arguing about a parking spot can lead into a deadly situation like this one did. Not worth anyones life....unless you think you are superman because you have a weapon and nobody can touch you. I dont agree with anyone assaulting anyone but DONT look to get assaulted.
 
Frizzle Fry said:
In MA a threat can be assault too. A threat. Not the mere act of speaking loudly.
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Example:

[Richard] Kelly, who drives a septic tank, briefly parked his tanker in this handicapped spot outside the Circle A Food Store before running inside this store for a beverage. When he came out, he saw Drejka taking pictures of his vehicle.
...
"He flipped out on me called me every n-word, said he's going to shoot me," Kelly said. "He said he was going to kill me, and he went back to his truck, got something out of his truck and walked back up on me."
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Assault, or the mere act of speaking loudly?
 
AHM said:
Example:



Assault, or the mere act of speaking loudly?
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And he reported this to the police? No - because he made it up as so many do after racially charged incidents.

Regardless, the septic tank driver did not engage with him physically (if they've ever even met). The (now dead) man who blindsided him and knocked him to the ground, having never exchanged a word with him, did.
 
Frizzle Fry said:
And he reported this to the police? No - because he made it up as so many do after racially charged incidents.
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The store owner had to break up the altercation,
and corroborates it happened.

If the store owner had gone the extra mile
and trespassed Drejka for threatening to shoot a customer,
this sorry tale probably wouldn't have gone down.

(For all we know, Drejka might have shot the store owner instead,
but let that go...)
 
AHM said:
Reply number 77 in this very thread.
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Interesting that other outlets do not make that connection or say that the store owner backs him up, but instead say that Kelly "claims" to be the person mentioned by Salous - and Salous says nothing of physical altercations, threats, guns, or racial slurs; only an argument. Again, it seems like you're mixing two stories here - as are a few media outlets who are weasel-wording their articles to make it see as though Kelly and Salous claims back one another, or that there are multiple incidents in the past. Some of the Kelly's claims seem to stand in opposition to the facts hence my skepticism. Either way, the police were called during the prior argument; there should be a record of the people involved, and whether a threat was reported.

No Weasel Words:
Man at center of Clearwater 'stand your ground' case previously had confrontations at same store

Florida 'Stand Your Ground' shooter had Delaware ties, report says

Florida Gunman Who Killed Father of Three in Parking Space Dispute Won’t Be Arrested

Lakeland sub shop starts pay-it-forward campaign


Weasel Words:
Gunman confronted other man weeks before shooting

Backlash continues following 'Stand Your Ground' shooting

Florida’s ‘stand your ground’ law is ‘a license to kill black people,’ attorney says



All that aside, Dredjka did not threaten Mcglockton.
He didn't even see Mcglockton coming.
He was assaulted by Mcglockton with no prior interaction.
 
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fencer said:
I have been in my fair share of scraps in my day
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"Fair share of scraps"? Not judging, but why?? I'm close to 50 years old and haven't been a fist fight since middle school. I had maybe 2-3 back then. Since I was in my teens I thought it best to just not get into fights and it hasn't been hard to do. Yeah, maybe not hanging out in dive bars has helped.
 
Reptile said:
Andrew Branca gives his analysis:

COTW: Florida "handicap parking spot shooting" analysis | Law of Self Defense on Patreon
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Interesting set of assumed facts.

The shooter observed that [the victim's girlfriend] was in a handicap spot without the proper placard, and started loudly and profanely telling her to move her car out of the parking spot.
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1. Loud.
2. Profane.
3. [New:] Not a recitation of law, not a threat to call police, but a demand to move the car.

The victim became aware of this disturbance, and exited the store.
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  1. Begs the question of how McGlockton became aware of the disturbance.
  2. The interaction was neither merely a jejune recitation of law, or nor an Oxfordian debate, but a disturbance.
After about 30 seconds the shooter struggled back to his feet, put his gun in his vehicle, and waited for police.
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  1. (I haven't seen tape of the shooter getting up). Did the shooter display the lingering effects of getting violently shoved onto the asphalt, or having just shot someone, or for that matter any signs of prior disability or chemical impairment?
  2. The shooter knew he really didn't want to be carrying when the first cruiser arrived on-scene, and/or he didn't have any further fear for his own life. (<= Which would argue against the newspaper conspiratorial reader comments that the shooter promptly shot McGlockton because he feared that Bystander Guy was a second assailant attempting to flank him. It also means that neither Bystander Guy nor anyone else tried to physically disarm the shooter after the shot was fired; there might have been a chorus of "dude, put it away!" - hopefully from behind stout cover).
OTOH:

... the shooter may have been acting imprudently and obnoxiously in scolding the girlfriend, mere non-threatening words do not constitute an act of physical aggression.
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Loud, profane, a demand to move the car - but mere obnoxious scolding, not threatening words.

More assessment from Andrew in a reply to a reader comment:

From: Kendahl Shane
Would the shooter's verbal assault on the girl friend make him vulnerable on innocence and reasonableness? To my mind, speaking to her in a civil tone would have been reasonable. Shouting insults was not. ...
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From: Law of Self Defense [i.e., Andrew]
"Tone" does not lose you innocence--words alone are not a threat of imminent force. There's no such thing as a "verbal assault" for use-of-force purposes, absent an actual threat of physical harm, and there's no evidence of such threat here. Even the girlfriend didn't claim any such threat. ...
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If "the investigation continuuuues", they should be questioning Bystander Guy like crazy. He can at least testify to what he heard starting a few seconds before the shooting. (And a lot more, if he was the person who made McGlockton "aware of the disturbance").


P. S. Imagine getting shoved to the pavement like that,
but (unlike this case) breaking your strong-side elbow in the fall.

When you lack situational awareness, you lack a lot.
 
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In 2012 Michael Drejka was accused of pulling out a handgun during a road rage incident. Some people are just loose cannons that can't wait for an opportunity to yank their smoke wagon. I'm not saying this was a case, but idiots like that do exist.
 
So you can look like the below and be charged with second degree murder for shooting the assailant that did it, but no charges for shooting someone who has pushed you once and it backing away at the time the trigger is pulled?

article-0-12B04BB7000005DC-869_1024x615_large.jpg


Glad to hear there is consistency in the application of the SYG law in Florida.
 

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