Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting

[Frizzle Fry]

Awww poor guy.. maybe next time he'll mind his own business and keep his mouth shut

Because words can be met with force, but force can't be met with force?

Likewise, I'm sure; heh.

I'm just going on what's been widely reported, and not trying to make any connections that are unverified.

And firmly standing behind the standard that meeting words that aren't explicit threats with physical violence isn't OK.

 

[AHM]

I'm just going on what's been widely reported, and not trying to make any connections that are unverified.

It's amazing how much news coverage of major stories disappears from MSM web sites months or even weeks after the event. And how often there is no significant followup on stories when the other shoe drops.

If the DA decides not to indict, we'll probably never know the answers to most of the relevant questions in this thread. If Drejka does get jacked up, some answers will appear for a while as the trial proceeds.

Because people who have plausible self-defense arguments in Florida even have protection about civil suits, we probably won't see the scab torn off by the family's lawyers.

(I'm assuming that no one ends up writing an objective book about the story).


On the other hand, if Drejka does avoid trials,
I wonder if he'll succeed in staying out of the limelight going forward.

He might notice a handicapped space at some Circle K or 7-11 getting habitually disrespected.
And that's not going to be a stable situation.

 

[Reptile]

Got this email from Andrew Branca:

Blog Post: A Journalist Who Understands Stand-Your-Ground

Hey folks,

It's so rare that I ever come across a journalist whose understanding of self-defense law isn't horrifically wrong that I feel obliged to point out the few examples that pop up. Jacob Sullum writing at the New York Post and a senior editor at Reason magazine gets it, as illustrated by his column: "No, the ‘Stand Your Ground’ law doesn’t protect Florida killer."

You can access that blog post here (for free!):

A Journalist Who Understands Stand-Your-Ground | Law of Self Defense on Patreon

 

[Matt_SERE]

Andrew Branca gives his analysis:

COTW: Florida "handicap parking spot shooting" analysis | Law of Self Defense on Patreon

Got this email from Andrew Branca:

Blog Post: A Journalist Who Understands Stand-Your-Ground

Hey folks,

It's so rare that I ever come across a journalist whose understanding of self-defense law isn't horrifically wrong that I feel obliged to point out the few examples that pop up. Jacob Sullum writing at the New York Post and a senior editor at Reason magazine gets it, as illustrated by his column: "No, the ‘Stand Your Ground’ law doesn’t protect Florida killer."

You can access that blog post here (for free!):

A Journalist Who Understands Stand-Your-Ground | Law of Self Defense on Patreon

Ever since the Zimmerman trial, when Andrew was most active here on NES, I have been following his website. I bought his book for all LTC carriers in the extended family and am glad I did. If you do not know about him he is worth a look. Just be aware that if you sign up for his free emails you may receive a few a day when cases such as these are in the news.

Matt

Home

 

[rwl1955]

Then again, Drejka looks like he is a loose cannon. definitely has anger issues.

Gunman confronted other man weeks before shooting

He has a hair across his ass for lazy able bodied a**h***s who park in handicapped spaces.

 

[Kurtz]

It's amazing how much news coverage of major stories disappears from MSM web sites months or even weeks after the event. And how often there is no significant followup on stories when the other shoe drops.

If the DA decides not to indict, we'll probably never know the answers to most of the relevant questions in this thread. If Drejka does get jacked up, some answers will appear for a while as the trial proceeds.

Because people who have plausible self-defense arguments in Florida even have protection about civil suits, we probably won't see the scab torn off by the family's lawyers.

(I'm assuming that no one ends up writing an objective book about the story).


On the other hand, if Drejka does avoid trials,
I wonder if he'll succeed in staying out of the limelight going forward.

He might notice a handicapped space at some Circle K or 7-11 getting habitually disrespected.
And that's not going to be a stable situation.

How many times does someone like this need to display his violent nature over something so trivial, before he is deemed unsuitable to have a CCW license? It's simply not his business to lash out at others for minor misdemeanors such as that.

 

[Kurtz]

He has a hair across his ass for lazy able bodied a**h***s who park in handicapped spaces.

When you carry a firearm you are supposed to maintain a certain level of professionalism, not go out of your way to be an asshat yourself.

 

[weekendracer]

IIRC, cops can shoot you in the back whilst you flee, because of some Tenessee court case. Or do they get special rulez? No, don't answer that if you wear a badge, IDGAF what your answer is.

No, Tennessee vs Garner explicitly ruled out shooting fleeing suspects unless they pose an imminent threat if they are allowed to escape. A lot of states had a 'fleeing felon' rule that allowed deadly force.

Tennessee v. Garner - Wikipedia

 

[MGnoob]

Couple of things.

1. The shooter had been blindsided and had the shootee standing over him when he drew. That's likely adequate fear that his life was in danger to justify deadly force.
2. The sheriff's analysis notwithstanding, "Stand Your Ground" laws have nothing to do with this. The shooter was on the ground with the shootee standing over him. He had no real means of escape.
3. The sheriff may not be preferring charges, but that does nothing to prevent the local DA from doing so at his convenience. "The sheriff said I can go" and a dollar leaves you short of money for a small Starbucks.
4. A number of people seem to think the shooter sat up, drew, thought about it, and fired after the shootee backed away. But, really, two seconds isn't a lot of time if you're dazed from the fall and in an adrenaline rush. For all we know, the shooter may have had terrible trigger discipline and popped the shootee while fumbling around with the trigger. Or, he may have been continually flailing away trying to get his finger on the trigger as soon as the gun cleared the holster. You'll never be able to tell from the video.

Great point,it’s a good thing the shooter took two second to atleast shoot the right person.or do we expect shootings to be like a scene out of John Wick

 

[Rob Boudrie]

I have spoken to ne'er-do-wells who park in handicap spots, but would never do so when carrying.

Ooops, I guess I just confessed to occasionally going out in public unarmed. I'll work on that

 

[AHM]

How many times does someone like this need to display his violent nature over something so trivial, before he is deemed unsuitable to have a CCW license? It's simply not his business to lash out at others for minor misdemeanors such as that.

One of the basic rules of NES is "never get the police involved".

Should the sewage truck driver have called the cops when threatened with being shot?
Should the store manager have called the cops after past parking lot disturbances?
How about all the other illegal parkers(*) the guy yelled at in the past?
How about bystanders who witnessed past harassment?

(*) Odds are the shooter had a lengthy rant because this wasn't his first rodeo.

BTW, we'll be damned lucky if Community Organizers don't blackmail the chain into declaring all of their stores to be Gun Free Zones.

When you carry a firearm you are supposed to maintain a certain level of professionalism, not go out of your way to be an asshat yourself.

What about the 1st amendment?

When you are a nationwide broadcast journalist,
you are supposed to maintain a certain level of professionalism,
not go out of your way to be a partisan hack peddling Very Fake News.

How many lost lives proceed from sheeple falling for Very Fake News?
Should we dial back protections for "unsuitable" publishers?

 

[Frizzle Fry]

Should the sewage truck driver have called the cops when threatened with being shot?**
Should the store manager have called the cops after past parking lot disturbances?

* Assuming that ever even happened, which is really up in the air
** The store manager did call the cops after the past disturbance

 

[AHM]

Should the sewage truck driver have called the cops when threatened with being shot?*
Should the store manager have called the cops after past parking lot disturbances?**

* Assuming that ever even happened, which is really up in the air

If the DA feels pressure to charge the shooter with something,
that would seem like an easy approach.
Because road parking lot raging a sewage truck driver
by threatening to shoot them sounds worthy of behavioral adjustment.

** The store manager did call the cops after the past disturbance

My bad. I originally mused whether the store owner should have
"no-trespassed" the shooter long ago, and then edited.

But I have no idea whether binding exile is done in Florida
by verbal notice to the offender,
or complaining to the cops,
or filing a motion with some court.

And when it comes to a convenience store filing court papers
to clear the deadwood out of their customer base -
I can believe ain't nobody got time for that.

 

[glockforlife]

Long-time and proud NES member and for the most part, I have tried to avoid these discussions but this one is important because it involves all of us who EDC. As someone on this forum once said, "I just want to shoot my guns and be left alone". My years of martial arts and firearm training both delivered the same message. Only use deadly force as the absolute last resort. The point that seems to be missed by some here is that the shooter provoked and escalated what should have been a comment ("You shouldn't park in handicapped spaces".) and walk away situation into a murder. Point number two is if you come out of a store and someone is yelling at your wife or girlfriend, you would probably react in a similar fashion. And then there is the race issue... If you argue that the shooter's life was in imminent danger, it is because he foolishly put himself there. He could have easily gotten up (or pulled the gun and gotten up) and walked away.

 

[Drix]

It's amazing how much news coverage of major stories disappears from MSM web sites months or even weeks after the event. And how often there is no significant followup on stories when the other shoe drops.

Can't tell you how many times I've gone for the quote about the shockwave not being able to be sold in MA because the AG thinks it's a pistol. I've seen it documented, but damn every time I need it it's never to be found.

 

[Bonesinium]

Yelling at someone for parking where you don't think they should be: overreaction.
Shoving someone to the ground for yelling at someone for parking where they don't think they should be: overreaction.
Shooting someone for shoving you to the ground for you yelling at someone for parking where you don't think they should be: overreaction.

I'm not sure based on the video and the circumstances, that I'd believe he reasonably believed he was in imminent danger to death or serious bodily injury, justifying the use of lethal force. I'm not sure the guy who pushed him was justified in his actions either, but he's dead. SYG means you don't have to retreat from somewhere you have a legal right to be, but it also doesn't mean you are free to use deadly force in any situation so long as someone does something wrong.

I mean putting the fact he created the situation that caused the guy to feel the need to push him in the first place aside for a second. Let's say the guy was totally and utterly unprovoked and did so because he didn't like the guys shirt or something. I can understand feeling the need to draw your firearm. That seems reasonable. You don't know if he is going to continue to attack you or not. But after having done so, the guy does NOT continue. It's a tough situation for sure, and had this been the case (totally unprovoked attack), I still am not sure I'd think it was necessary to shoot, but I'd be inclined to believe it to be justified.

But that wasn't the case, and especially if the allegations he had threatened people in the past are true, there is probably enough to prove his motive wasn't just an act of pure self defense.

Crappy situation all around compounded by not a single person involved acting appropriately.

 

[Drix]

Yelling at someone for parking where you don't think they should be: overreaction.
Shoving someone to the ground for yelling at someone for parking where they don't think they should be: overreaction.
Shooting someone for shoving you to the ground for you yelling at someone for parking where you don't think they should be: overreaction.

I'm not sure based on the video and the circumstances, that I'd believe he reasonably believed he was in imminent danger to death or serious bodily injury, justifying the use of lethal force. I'm not sure the guy who pushed him was justified in his actions either, but he's dead. SYG means you don't have to retreat from somewhere you have a legal right to be, but it also doesn't mean you are free to use deadly force in any situation so long as someone does something wrong.

I mean putting the fact he created the situation that caused the guy to feel the need to push him in the first place aside for a second. Let's say the guy was totally and utterly unprovoked and did so because he didn't like the guys shirt or something. I can understand feeling the need to draw your firearm. That seems reasonable. You don't know if he is going to continue to attack you or not. But after having done so, the guy does NOT continue. It's a tough situation for sure, and had this been the case (totally unprovoked attack), I still am not sure I'd think it was necessary to shoot, but I'd be inclined to believe it to be justified.

But that wasn't the case, and especially if the allegations he had threatened people in the past are true, there is probably enough to prove his motive wasn't just an act of pure self defense.

Crappy situation all around compounded by not a single person involved acting appropriately.

Everyone misses the part of the statute where you're not protected during the commission of a crime. The focus shouldn't be whether or not Mcglockton was threatening him, but whether Drejka was committing a crime while playing cop and yelling obscenities at Mcglocktons wife and children.

 

[Woodstock]

Wife? What wife? Babymomma set it all in motion by parking in the handicap spot, and she had options when Drejka started his rant. She was sitting behind the wheel with ample opportunity to move the car, or just roll up her window and ignore him. Instead she chose to get out and confront him up close. Too bad there isn't audio of her comments. Or of McGlockton's after he knocked Drejka down. If he was threatening further violence it might explain why Drejka pulled the trigger. All three are knuckleheads and they all contributed to the outcome.

 

[fencer]

"Fair share of scraps"? Not judging, but why?? I'm close to 50 years old and haven't been a fist fight since middle school. I had maybe 2-3 back then. Since I was in my teens I thought it best to just not get into fights and it hasn't been hard to do. Yeah, maybe not hanging out in dive bars has helped.

I am also about the same age. When I was 12 I moved to DeKalb county Georgia. I was one of the biggest kids in the grade and everyone wanted to kick a yankee's ass. Six ,months after we moved there, my Dad died of pancreatic cancer. We stayed for a couple of years, long enough for a kid to develop a southern accent, then my mom wanted to move back to Mass to be near family. Same story, only in the reverse. Wrestled, football and martial arts. Also, might have attracted some attention from the local girls, which didn't exactly thrill their boy friends. When I was in 10th grade, I got into a fight with the toughest kid in school, Johnny Dutton, and I swear, at least 200 kids showed up.
I also have a fraternal twin brother who was a year behind me in school, looked nothing like me and was a real skinny kid. The black kids in Georgia hated him, and every time they beat his ass, I would stand shoulder to shoulder with him and make sure they never did it again
I graduated high school before I turned 18 and left for Marine Corps boot a week after. I turned 18 on the Island. There might have been a few altercations as a Marine. Whenever something happened, I was the first target. They always go for the toughest guy first, and usually not alone.

When I got out of the Marine Corps, I worked nights as a bouncer at a pretty active night club in Weymouth to earn extra money. Anyone remember the Bajabeach club? LOL. It wasn't exactly Road House with Patrick Swayze, but something happened nearly every night and more than a few nights guys that got tossed came back at closing.

I don't drink, hang in bars, and in my whole life have never walked into a bar just to order a drink. Not even in the Corps. Sorry for the long response, but you asked.

 

[ProGun]

I am also about the same age. When I was 12 I moved to DeKalb county Georgia. I was one of the biggest kids in the grade and everyone wanted to kick a yankee's ass. Six ,months after we moved there, my Dad died of pancreatic cancer. We stayed for a couple of years, long enough for a kid to develop a southern accent, then my mom wanted to move back to Mass to be near family. Same story, only in the reverse. Wrestled, football and martial arts. Also, might have attracted some attention from the local girls, which didn't exactly thrill their boy friends. When I was in 10th grade, I got into a fight with the toughest kid in school, Johnny Dutton, and I swear, at least 200 kids showed up.
I also have a fraternal twin brother who was a year behind me in school, looked nothing like me and was a real skinny kid. The black kids in Georgia hated him, and every time they beat his ass, I would stand shoulder to shoulder with him and make sure they never did it again
I graduated high school before I turned 18 and left for Marine Corps boot a week after. I turned 18 on the Island. There might have been a few altercations as a Marine. Whenever something happened, I was the first target. They always go for the toughest guy first, and usually not alone.

When I got out of the Marine Corps, I worked nights as a bouncer at a pretty active night club in Weymouth to earn extra money. Anyone remember the Bajabeach club? LOL. It wasn't exactly Road House with Patrick Swayze, but something happened nearly every night and more than a few nights guys that got tossed came back at closing.

I don't drink, hang in bars, and in my whole life have never walked into a bar just to order a drink. Not even in the Corps. Sorry for the long response, but you asked.

Makes sense! And sorry you lost your dad, rough at such a young age.

 

[fencer]

Makes sense! And sorry you lost your dad, rough at such a young age.

Thank you. It was toughest on my Mom. He was diagnosed with cancer in April and wasted away right in front of our eyes and died on the last day of school in June. Dad was born in 1921 and although I am bigger and stronger than he was, I doubt I have ever been as tough. He was a WWII Marine. He never whined or complained. He met his fate like a man and insisted I do the same. I have always refused to use his death as an excuse for anything and remind myself that a lot of kids had it much worse than I did.

I admit that it is hard for me to put myself in the shooters place in this case. I agree with posters that say he sure did draw and shoot pretty quickly. But it also appeared that he was about to get a beating. Right before he drew, the aggressor hitched up his shorts, and started towards the guy on the ground. There is no audio, but I doubt his girlfriend was encouraging him to help him up and bring him to bible school. I think she got her boyfriend killed and he deserved it.

 

[glockforlife]

Got this email from Andrew Branca:

Blog Post: A Journalist Who Understands Stand-Your-Ground

Hey folks,

It's so rare that I ever come across a journalist whose understanding of self-defense law isn't horrifically wrong that I feel obliged to point out the few examples that pop up. Jacob Sullum writing at the New York Post and a senior editor at Reason magazine gets it, as illustrated by his column: "No, the ‘Stand Your Ground’ law doesn’t protect Florida killer."

You can access that blog post here (for free!):

A Journalist Who Understands Stand-Your-Ground | Law of Self Defense on Patreon

This is very helpful to the discussion. Thanks.

 

[M1911]

IIRC, cops can shoot you in the back whilst you flee, because of some Tenessee court case. Or do they get special rulez? No, don't answer that if you wear a badge, IDGAF what your answer is.

You have completely misunderstood and misrepresented Tennessee v. Garner.

 

[NHCraigT]

UPDATE: White man in Florida 'stand your ground' case charged with manslaughter in black man's shooting death

 

[Frizzle Fry]

UPDATE: White man in Florida 'stand your ground' case charged with manslaughter in black man's shooting death

Dumb question here but why should we believe that article when it's full of very clear inaccuracies? Drejka was not "a foot" from the car; the door of the car opens and doesn't even come near touching him - is it a one foot wide door? The driver was not "terrified" or she would not have gotten out of her car. McGlockton did not "take three steps back" after Drejka pulls his gun.

Sorry; too weasely for my taste.

 

[Qwikdraw45]

Dumb question here but why should we believe that article when it's full of very clear inaccuracies? Drejka was not "a foot" from the car; the door of the car opens and doesn't even come near touching him - is it a one foot wide door? The driver was not "terrified" or she would not have gotten out of her car. McGlockton did not "take three steps back" after Drejka pulls his gun.

Sorry; too weasely for my taste.

Kind of moot at this point, since the State's Attorney is bringing it to trial. Seeing as how everyone on this board has been divided over whether or not it was legitimate, I think the jury will be in exactly the same position. The benefit of the jury is that the video will likely be blown up and slowed down, and they will be able to hear the testimony from both sides as to what actually was said (as close as people can remember). I think given the divided nature of viewers here, it will be difficult to get a full 12 to agree to convict. If not, then we'll just see more rioting and protests if Drejka is acquitted or can't be convicted due to hung juries.

 

[Paul455]

If you go looking for trouble, you will find it.

There are a lot of unstable people out there...."hurt people hurt people".

Getting into a fight means that even if you prevail, you will probably get hurt as well.

If you kill someone, and get cleared, the civil case will ruin your life.

Walk away and smile - you just dodged a "bullet"

From a 64 year old who has a little life experience.

 

[M1911]

If you kill someone, and get cleared, the civil case will ruin your life.

The criminal case alone may well ruin your life. Defending against a murder charge can cost in excess of $500k. Most don’t have the ability to mount that type of defense with destroying their net worth.

And then there is the impact upon your life that disclosure of your identity can cause — loss of job, mark of Cain, being hounded by the press, etc.

 

[Tinkermatic]

Round and round we go! Where this stops,
No body knows!

Not surprised they brought charges. As stated above, if there’s one thing this thread cleared up, it’s that nothing about this is clear cut.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

If you kill someone, and get cleared, the civil case will ruin your life.

Not in Florida. A win in the criminal case insulates one from a civil case. Note the lack of a civil case against the Z man.