Checklist on Carrying

[the_doctor]

Where is there a checklist that says where you can carry in Massachusetts and where you can not carry? There does not seem to be any available concise index.

I heard some tall tales, today. I would like to see if anyone has sources regarding those prohibitions.

thanks
bill

 

[pbearperry]

where can you carry

If you have a non restricted Class A license,you can carry just about everywhere in Mass.Exceptions are Federal buildings,public school property,The State House or anywhere else that is posted.

 

[the_doctor]

If you have a non restricted Class A license,you can carry just about everywhere in Mass.Exceptions are Federal buildings,public school property,The State House or anywhere else that is posted.

Well,

Help me out. Do you have a statute regarding the State House? A reg?

Where do people get the idea that they can not carry in the PO, a restaurant, a hair barber, etc?

 

[Scrivener]

Where do people get the idea that they can not carry in the PO, a restaurant, a hair barber [what other kind is there? ], etc?

Police dispatchers, gun store cowboys and the internet.

 

[the_doctor]

Police dispatchers, gun store cowboys and the internet.

Right.

So really, I am (1) forbidden from carrying in places where they officer or owner of the property prohibits the carrying of such weapons and would deny my person entrance to the property.

I am forbidden from carrying on school property (2). Yet, I can keep high capacity rifles in the trunk. I can keep a "regular" rifle unloaded on the back seat.

I can not carrying courthouses (3).

I can not carry in wildlife sanctuaries (4).

I can not carry in Nationals Park(5). National Forests or State Parks are allowed.

Did I miss anything? AS the object of my exercise is to make a complete list of places that I will never visit again in my life!

thanks
bill

 

[KMaurer]

Federal law generally prohibits carry on federal property, including all federal courthouses, and the secure areas of airports. Because of an ambiguous exception in the section relating to Post Offices that situation is, well, ambiguous.

Massachusetts law prohibits carry in schools.

As a general rule, both police stations and court houses will not allow carry beyond a certain point, but there is no law prohibiting it.

Signs posted by property owners are expression of their (or their legal counsel's) opinion. They carry absolutely no legal force. Any property owner can ask you to leave at any time, and it's generally a good idea to do so to avoid charges of trespass, particularly if you're carrying.

Ken

 

[vellnueve]

Schools are the only place in MA where you cannot carry by state law. Other places and jurisdictions will make their own rules.

 

[pdm]

If it's not prohibited by statue, you're only trespassing, correct?

 

[KMaurer]

If it's not prohibited by statue, you're only trespassing, correct?

Not unless (and until) they ask you to leave.

Ken

 

[pdm]

Not unless (and until) they ask you to leave.

Ken

Well, yeah, I should have been more specific on that.

 

[drgrant]

Right.

So really, I am (1) forbidden from carrying in places where they officer or owner of the property prohibits the carrying of such weapons and would deny my person entrance to the property.

Well, this depends on whether/how it's enforced. MA does -NOT- have legally binding
signage in the case of private property. MA is a "trespass standard" state, which means
that you can really only be charged if you refuse to leave the premises when asked by the
owner or their rep. I ignore any signs which aren't otherwise enforced by state/federal
law or "physical" security (eg, manned metal detectors, etc. )

-Mike

 

[RKG]

If you have a non restricted Class A license,you can carry just about everywhere in Mass.Exceptions are Federal buildings,public school property,The State House or anywhere else that is posted.

Public or private school.

 

[the_doctor]

Federal law generally prohibits carry on federal property, including all federal courthouses, and the secure areas of airports. Because of an ambiguous exception in the section relating to Post Offices that situation is, well, ambiguous.

Massachusetts law prohibits carry in schools.

As a general rule, both police stations and court houses will not allow carry beyond a certain point, but there is no law prohibiting it.

Signs posted by property owners are expression of their (or their legal counsel's) opinion. They carry absolutely no legal force. Any property owner can ask you to leave at any time, and it's generally a good idea to do so to avoid charges of trespass, particularly if you're carrying.

Ken

I read USC 18. It actually says hunting or other lawful purpose are acceptable. My opinion on the CFR is that it can not narrowly constrict the definitions in the statute. I don't think the CFR really has a lot to stand on. I would love for someone to challenge it.

Bill

 

[GaryO]

I was in the Framingham Post Office on Friday and it is posted no carry as soon as you walk in.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

I was in the Framingham Post Office on Friday and it is posted no carry as soon as you walk in.

That is a standard sign posted in just about every post office in the country. It conveniently omits the final clause in the section they quote (the one regarding "incident to lawful purposes"). That being said, although I have read articled by attorneys stating carry is legal, I an not aware of any case law of official opinion that confirms this interpretation will be accepted by the courts.

It's sort of like the MA school carry law - care to guess how many police actually know that MGL269-10j prohibits "carry on one's person"; that the courts have dismissed cases when arrests have been made when the gun was in a vehicle but non on the person of an LTC holder; and that the presence of a more limited prohibition in one section of the law not present in other sections of the same law containing broader prohibitions has been held to actually have meaning? The Umass PD certainly didn't bother worrying about that distinction when it announced a couple of arrests - one for an AR15 in the trunk of a vehicle which is in no way "carrying on one's person".

 

[Pilgrim]

see section d-3

 

[Rob Boudrie]

see section d-3

I am familiar with D3 - I just don't expect that federal LEO would accept a folded up copy of the law (I notice yours appears to be folded for a wallet) as negating their training that post office carry is prohibited for civilians - however, it would probably be an interesting avenue for defense at trial or negotiating position at plea bargain discussions.

Sometimes the courts issue decisions that seem to contradict common sense or a plain English reading of the law, so there is a chance a liberal judge could rule "self defense carry is not a lawful purpose for the requirements of this law".

It would be interesting for you to try to get the arresting officer to enter your folded up copy as evidence so that you could easily demonstrate that your intent was to meet the "other lawful purpose" test.

 

[KMaurer]

I read USC 18. It actually says hunting or other lawful purpose are acceptable. My opinion on the CFR is that it can not narrowly constrict the definitions in the statute. I don't think the CFR really has a lot to stand on. I would love for someone to challenge it.

Bill

+1 OTOH, neither my bank balance nor my currently unrestricted LTC-A want to be that test case.

Ken

 

[Coyote33]

Did I miss anything? AS the object of my exercise is to make a complete list of places that I will never visit again in my life!

National Parks? (Is the National Seashore one?)

 

[ZenShooter]

Yes, National Parks, all of them if marked as NPS property, as far as I know. Which makes for an interesting situation here in Salem, MA. If one walks down Derby Street in the downtown Salem shopping area, as you approach the Friendship and Pickering Wharf, large parts of both sides of the street are National Park property. The sidewalk on one side supposedly is also ("that's why we shovel it and the city doesn't," said one park ranger). One doesn't have to venture very far in either direction to be in violation of that law.

 

[clinotus]

I am forbidden from carrying on school property (2). Yet, I can keep high capacity rifles in the trunk. I can keep a "regular" rifle unloaded on the back seat.

Not so sure about that one.

 

[Chris]

The school prohibition is "on your person". There is an exemption for LEO.

Ron Glidden's book goes into this one in some detail.

 

[the_doctor]

The school prohibition is "on your person". There is an exemption for LEO.

Ron Glidden's book goes into this one in some detail.

The exemption is when you are ON-DUTY. I think that someone should make a citizen's arrest when they see a fellow off-duty on the school grounds.

Several other states allow CCW holders the federal exemption.

Georgia also defines a school zone but allows those not going to the school but on functions at other locations within the school zone to CCW.