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FFL Refuses Transfer Because Address on LTC not matching DL address

This guy is relentless. Curious if anyone here that is an FFL can comment. I have researched this topic enormously over the past week. Coupled with the fact that I have ALWAYS only ever used my Driver's License as the form of ID for a firearm purchase or transfer - dozens of firearms over the many years - Everything I read, every FFL I have spoken with, and both State and Federal officials that deal with firearms all concur that only a valid State issued DL is needed.

Below is a copy of the most recent email exchange between Mr. DiAngelis and myself. I was hoping my email would have been the end of it, but he felt the need to reply. He certainly is persistent in his stance, I'll give him that. So, is there something I am missing? Is he using an OLDER method for background checks? What's the deal here?


FROM ME: If you want to set your own store policy then fine. I can't argue with that. It sucks, but that's your right. But don't tell me that the FBI requires two forms of picture ID that match the address on the form 4473. You are making that up. I spoke to people at the Boston ATF Management Team, the MA State Firearm Records Bureau and several other FFLs in MA. All agree unanimously that you are flat out WRONG. A State Driver's License is all that is needed for the Federal background check.
cleardot.gif

FROM PETER DIANGELIS: You are such an IDIOT! Have you ever conducted a background check before? No, well the first question the FBI asks is "Does the applicant have two forms of Picture ID, and do they match the address provided on the form 4473"
f*** you! You stupid f***.
f*** OFF
 
Mountain_Dad said:
This guy is relentless. Curious if anyone here that is an FFL can comment. I have researched this topic enormously over the past week. Coupled with the fact that I have ALWAYS only ever used my Driver's License as the form of ID for a firearm purchase or transfer - dozens of firearms over the many years - Everything I read, every FFL I have spoken with, and both State and Federal officials that deal with firearms all concur that only a valid State issued DL is needed.

Below is a copy of the most recent email exchange between Mr. DiAngelis and myself. I was hoping my email would have been the end of it, but he felt the need to reply. He certainly is persistent in his stance, I'll give him that. So, is there something I am missing? Is he using an OLDER method for background checks? What's the deal here?


FROM ME: If you want to set your own store policy then fine. I can't argue with that. It sucks, but that's your right. But don't tell me that the FBI requires two forms of picture ID that match the address on the form 4473. You are making that up. I spoke to people at the Boston ATF Management Team, the MA State Firearm Records Bureau and several other FFLs in MA. All agree unanimously that you are flat out WRONG. A State Driver's License is all that is needed for the Federal background check.
cleardot.gif

FROM PETER DIANGELIS: You are such an IDIOT! Have you ever conducted a background check before? No, well the first question the FBI asks is "Does the applicant have two forms of Picture ID, and do they match the address provided on the form 4473"
f*** you! You stupid f***.
f*** OFF
Click to expand...

Why didn't you tell him he's famous? Lol

He's such an ass. Even if you disagree, you can't talk like that.

Also thanks for confirming that we were thinking of the same guy.

There has been a couple threads before about this guy as well

FYI @Joeldiaz
 
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Mountain_Dad said:
This guy is relentless. Curious if anyone here that is an FFL can comment. I have researched this topic enormously over the past week. Coupled with the fact that I have ALWAYS only ever used my Driver's License as the form of ID for a firearm purchase or transfer - dozens of firearms over the many years - Everything I read, every FFL I have spoken with, and both State and Federal officials that deal with firearms all concur that only a valid State issued DL is needed.

Below is a copy of the most recent email exchange between Mr. DiAngelis and myself. I was hoping my email would have been the end of it, but he felt the need to reply. He certainly is persistent in his stance, I'll give him that. So, is there something I am missing? Is he using an OLDER method for background checks? What's the deal here?


FROM ME: If you want to set your own store policy then fine. I can't argue with that. It sucks, but that's your right. But don't tell me that the FBI requires two forms of picture ID that match the address on the form 4473. You are making that up. I spoke to people at the Boston ATF Management Team, the MA State Firearm Records Bureau and several other FFLs in MA. All agree unanimously that you are flat out WRONG. A State Driver's License is all that is needed for the Federal background check.
cleardot.gif

FROM PETER DIANGELIS: You are such an IDIOT! Have you ever conducted a background check before? No, well the first question the FBI asks is "Does the applicant have two forms of Picture ID, and do they match the address provided on the form 4473"
f*** you! You stupid f***.
f*** OFF
Click to expand...
You have to kinda appreciate the oldschool cape cod ma.sshole factor here though.
 
Mountain_Dad said:
This guy is relentless. Curious if anyone here that is an FFL can comment. I have researched this topic enormously over the past week. Coupled with the fact that I have ALWAYS only ever used my Driver's License as the form of ID for a firearm purchase or transfer - dozens of firearms over the many years - Everything I read, every FFL I have spoken with, and both State and Federal officials that deal with firearms all concur that only a valid State issued DL is needed.
Click to expand...
Are you saying you presented your LTLC as "non-ID", or that these purchases/transfers were outside of MA?

cleardot.gif

FROM PETER DIANGELIS: You are such an IDIOT! Have you ever conducted a background check before? No, well the first question the FBI asks is "Does the applicant have two forms of Picture ID, and do they match the address provided on the form 4473"
f*** you! You stupid f***.
f*** OFF
Click to expand...
Before I read this, I was thinking - this guy may be overly scared, but it's within his rights not to accept legal advice, however correct, from a customer and seems to be an honest guy promptly returning the gun to the dealer who shipped it to him.

Then I read the above response. He may be an honest guy, but he certainly does not understand how to act like a professional. (assuming, of course, the quoted email is accurate)

The part about the background check question is interesting, since I have never been asked for a second ID when transferring or buying a gun - just my LTC.
 
Last edited:
Mountain_Dad said:
This guy is relentless. Curious if anyone here that is an FFL can comment. I have researched this topic enormously over the past week. Coupled with the fact that I have ALWAYS only ever used my Driver's License as the form of ID for a firearm purchase or transfer - dozens of firearms over the many years - Everything I read, every FFL I have spoken with, and both State and Federal officials that deal with firearms all concur that only a valid State issued DL is needed.

Below is a copy of the most recent email exchange between Mr. DiAngelis and myself. I was hoping my email would have been the end of it, but he felt the need to reply. He certainly is persistent in his stance, I'll give him that. So, is there something I am missing? Is he using an OLDER method for background checks? What's the deal here?


FROM ME: If you want to set your own store policy then fine. I can't argue with that. It sucks, but that's your right. But don't tell me that the FBI requires two forms of picture ID that match the address on the form 4473. You are making that up. I spoke to people at the Boston ATF Management Team, the MA State Firearm Records Bureau and several other FFLs in MA. All agree unanimously that you are flat out WRONG. A State Driver's License is all that is needed for the Federal background check.
cleardot.gif

FROM PETER DIANGELIS: You are such an IDIOT! Have you ever conducted a background check before? No, well the first question the FBI asks is "Does the applicant have two forms of Picture ID, and do they match the address provided on the form 4473"
f*** you! You stupid f***.
f*** OFF
Click to expand...
Not an FFL but I don't see where he is getting that from (I'm not fixing the crappy formatting below)

Question 26.a. Identification: Before a licensee may sell or deliver a firearm to anonlicensee, the licensee must establish the identity, place of residence, and age ofthe transferee/buyer. The transferee/buyer must provide a valid government-issuedphoto identification document to the transferor/seller that contains the transferee’s/buyer’s name, residence address, and date of birth. A driver’s license or anidentification card issued by a State is acceptable. Social Security cards are notacceptable because no address, date of birth, or photograph is shown on the cards.Identification documents such as a driver’s license or identification card issued withbinary, non-binary, or no sex designation may be used as an identification document.A combination of government-issued documents may be provided. See instructionsfor question 26.b. Supplemental Documentation.If the transferee/buyer is a member of the Armed Forces on active duty acquiring afirearm in the State where his/her permanent duty station is located, but he/she hasa driver’s license from another State, the transferor/seller must list the transferee’s/buyer’s military identification card in response to question 26.a., in addition to PCSorders as indicated in 26.c.
 
@Mountain_Dad

I've been buying firearms from FFLs since 1976. In MA until 2020 and in NH since then.

I have NEVER had to present anything other than my MA LTC (in MA) or NH DL (in NH). I also bought some long guns in NH as a MA resident and only had to provide my MA DL in those cases. I never had to present multiple forms of ID.

The guy is a f'g moron and has no business selling guns in any state!!! He should stick to hardware in plastic bubble packages.
 
Len-2A Training said:
@Mountain_Dad

I've been buying firearms from FFLs since 1976. In MA until 2020 and in NH since then.

I have NEVER had to present anything other than my MA LTC (in MA) or NH DL (in NH). I also bought some long guns in NH as a MA resident and only had to provide my MA DL in those cases. I never had to present multiple forms of ID.

The guy is a f'g moron and has no business selling guns in any state!!! He should stick to hardware in plastic bubble packages.
Click to expand...
Powderhorn used to take dl number. Which I found strange and they said they didn't know why. Mark just wanted it...
Beyond that I haven't either
 
MassPete said:
Be careful with this guy. He's apparently not too far from your home. If he finds out you posted his picture with his home address, things could escalate quickly. I would learn from it and be done.
Click to expand...
The dude would be making rounds to half if the gun owners around here. He's not liked in any circles
 
Rob Boudrie said:
Are you saying you presented your LTLC as "non-ID", or that these purchases/transfers were outside of MA?
Click to expand...

Not quite sure what you're asking.

I've lived in and purchased firearms in several different states. The driver's license is all that I have ever needed if a Federal NICS was required. In some states though, a CCW or LTC is accepted by the ATF as an alternative to NICS (e.g., North Carolina). In NC, FFLs want to see your CCW and a DL so they can skip the NICS. But in NC when you change your address the state immediately sends you a new CCW with your new address on it. MA does not do that, which I suspect is because the MA LTC is not accepted by the ATF as an alternative to NICS.
 
MassPete said:
Be careful with this guy. He's apparently not too far from your home. If he finds out you posted his picture with his home address, things could escalate quickly. I would learn from it and be done.
Click to expand...

I would eat him up and shit him out if he tries anything. Everything I have posted about him is readily accessible public information. Quick google searches.
 
Mountain_Dad said:
This guy is relentless. Curious if anyone here that is an FFL can comment. I have researched this topic enormously over the past week. Coupled with the fact that I have ALWAYS only ever used my Driver's License as the form of ID for a firearm purchase or transfer - dozens of firearms over the many years - Everything I read, every FFL I have spoken with, and both State and Federal officials that deal with firearms all concur that only a valid State issued DL is needed.

Below is a copy of the most recent email exchange between Mr. DiAngelis and myself. I was hoping my email would have been the end of it, but he felt the need to reply. He certainly is persistent in his stance, I'll give him that. So, is there something I am missing? Is he using an OLDER method for background checks? What's the deal here?


FROM ME: If you want to set your own store policy then fine. I can't argue with that. It sucks, but that's your right. But don't tell me that the FBI requires two forms of picture ID that match the address on the form 4473. You are making that up. I spoke to people at the Boston ATF Management Team, the MA State Firearm Records Bureau and several other FFLs in MA. All agree unanimously that you are flat out WRONG. A State Driver's License is all that is needed for the Federal background check.
cleardot.gif

FROM PETER DIANGELIS: You are such an IDIOT! Have you ever conducted a background check before? No, well the first question the FBI asks is "Does the applicant have two forms of Picture ID, and do they match the address provided on the form 4473"
f*** you! You stupid f***.
f*** OFF
Click to expand...
You should file a complaint with the BBB
 
appraiser said:
JIC case anyone missed it, the shop has been outed

DIANGELIS, PETER RAYMOND (6-04-001-01-6G-05192) - FFL Scope

DIANGELIS, PETER RAYMOND NORTH FALMOUTH HARDWARE AND MARINE 91 COUNTY ROAD, N FALMOUTH, MA 02556. 6-04-001-01-6G-05192 expires 7/1/2026.
www.fflscope.com
Click to expand...
I had a feeling this was the place. My folks live in Falmouth and I stopped in that place a few years ago to look around. He was a dick then and seems like an even bigger dick now.
 
Mountain_Dad said:
This guy is relentless. Curious if anyone here that is an FFL can comment. I have researched this topic enormously over the past week. Coupled with the fact that I have ALWAYS only ever used my Driver's License as the form of ID for a firearm purchase or transfer - dozens of firearms over the many years - Everything I read, every FFL I have spoken with, and both State and Federal officials that deal with firearms all concur that only a valid State issued DL is needed.

Below is a copy of the most recent email exchange between Mr. DiAngelis and myself. I was hoping my email would have been the end of it, but he felt the need to reply. He certainly is persistent in his stance, I'll give him that. So, is there something I am missing? Is he using an OLDER method for background checks? What's the deal here?


FROM ME: If you want to set your own store policy then fine. I can't argue with that. It sucks, but that's your right. But don't tell me that the FBI requires two forms of picture ID that match the address on the form 4473. You are making that up. I spoke to people at the Boston ATF Management Team, the MA State Firearm Records Bureau and several other FFLs in MA. All agree unanimously that you are flat out WRONG. A State Driver's License is all that is needed for the Federal background check.
cleardot.gif

FROM PETER DIANGELIS: You are such an IDIOT! Have you ever conducted a background check before? No, well the first question the FBI asks is "Does the applicant have two forms of Picture ID, and do they match the address provided on the form 4473"
f*** you! You stupid f***.
f*** OFF
Click to expand...
He is a MORON has previously stated. What the NICS check actually asks is

Do the name, date of birth, and place of residence in Section B on the ATF Form 4473 exactly match the valid government-issued photo identification (to include supplemental) document(s) provided to you AND do questions 21b through 21m have a “No” response?

This of course aligns with what I posted already in this thread

CrackPot said:
I am a FFL. Your FFL is a complete MORON. Of course, he is allowed to be a moron and have whatever stupid policies he wants.

First, federal law. You must provide two things to your FFL as part of completing a 4473. You must provide proof of identity and proof of residency. Proof of identify is a government issued picture ID with your name and likeness. That is ALL that is required for proof of identify. For proof of residency you must provide ANY government document that contains your name and your current address. This can by your LTC or DL but it can also be your car registration or a tax bill.

State law. You must provide a valid LTC that has your name and likeness and your pin. The address on the LTC will be the address you lived at WHEN THE LTC WAS ISSUED. There is no requirement that it be your current address and in fact they will not issue you an updated LTC with your new address. If the Dealer is paranoid, they can use your LTC# and pin and do a LTC validation to confirm that you have correctly updated your address in the system. This is NOT NECESSARY but they are free to check.

So in a perfect world, you provide your LTC which has your current address on it. It then meets ALL THREE requirements, the two federal requirements and the one MA requirement.

Lots of dealers want your DL also. This is a made up requirement and purely their policy, not the law.

For just a federal transfer, I have accepted a MA issued hoisters license. It has the current address and a picture of the person satisfying all federal requirements. The hoister license is issued every 2 years so sometimes is the one picture ID people have with their current address.


So out your FFL so others can avoid them. Have them transfer the gun to another FFL and never look back.
Click to expand...

Like many (most?) FFLs, he has his own ideas of what is correct and any deviation is unlawful, illegal, immoral, etc.

There are unfortunately zero surprises in this thread.
 
Mountain_Dad said:
Not quite sure what you're asking.

I've lived in and purchased firearms in several different states. The driver's license is all that I have ever needed if a Federal NICS was required. In some states though, a CCW or LTC is accepted by the ATF as an alternative to NICS (e.g., North Carolina). In NC, FFLs want to see your CCW and a DL so they can skip the NICS. But in NC when you change your address the state immediately sends you a new CCW with your new address on it. MA does not do that, which I suspect is because the MA LTC is not accepted by the ATF as an alternative to NICS.
Click to expand...
You seem to be in MA and stated you only produced a driver license.

If you made purchases in MA, youwould have needed an LTC/FID to buy a gun, so if you also presented your driving license that would be two forms of ID.

And MA LTCs do not meet the federal criteria to skip the NICS check, so the requirement to show them at purchase time is not optional.
 
Rob Boudrie said:
You seem to be in MA and stated you only produced a driver license.

If you made purchases in MA, youwould have needed an LTC/FID to buy a gun, so if you also presented your driving license that would be two forms of ID.

And MA LTCs do not meet the federal criteria to skip the NICS check, so the requirement to show them at purchase time is not optional.
Click to expand...
Limit the validity of the LTC to 5 years max (you can get to 6 right now because of timing and birthdays) and we would be brady compliant. But no...
 
Rob Boudrie said:
You seem to be in MA and stated you only produced a driver license.

If you made purchases in MA, youwould have needed an LTC/FID to buy a gun, so if you also presented your driving license that would be two forms of ID.

And MA LTCs do not meet the federal criteria to skip the NICS check, so the requirement to show them at purchase time is not optional.
Click to expand...

No, I have an MA LTC-A and produced both that and a drivers license. My original post for this thread explains what happened.
 
I did one transfer there a few years ago, an original Armalite AR-7. Figured would try a local place. As someone mentioned, it’s a hardware store, not a gun shop. Had to email the request to do the transfer, wouldn’t speak to me directly. When it arrived and went to pickup it up, received nothing but attitude. Needless to say I never went back, not even for any hardware item. He generally has a bad rep in the neighborhood.
 
wildwest said:
Not an FFL but I don't see where he is getting that from (I'm not fixing the crappy formatting below)

Question 26.a. Identification: Before a licensee may sell or deliver a firearm to anonlicensee, the licensee must establish the identity, place of residence, and age ofthe transferee/buyer. The transferee/buyer must provide a valid government-issuedphoto identification document to the transferor/seller that contains the transferee’s/buyer’s name, residence address, and date of birth. A driver’s license or anidentification card issued by a State is acceptable. Social Security cards are notacceptable because no address, date of birth, or photograph is shown on the cards.Identification documents such as a driver’s license or identification card issued withbinary, non-binary, or no sex designation may be used as an identification document.A combination of government-issued documents may be provided. See instructionsfor question 26.b. Supplemental Documentation.If the transferee/buyer is a member of the Armed Forces on active duty acquiring afirearm in the State where his/her permanent duty station is located, but he/she hasa driver’s license from another State, the transferor/seller must list the transferee’s/buyer’s military identification card in response to question 26.a., in addition to PCSorders as indicated in 26.c.
Click to expand...
Playing devil's advocate - I can see how an FFL might interpret this language in a way that would seem to require them to have a document with the proper address of the buyer.
That being said I would also think that the FFL would do the research and at least know his ass from his elbow.
 
Realtor MA said:
Playing devil's advocate - I can see how an FFL might interpret this language in a way that would seem to require them to have a document with the proper address of the buyer.
That being said I would also think that the FFL would do the research and at least know his ass from his elbow.
Click to expand...

But I have a DL with the proper address. Along with a whole bunch of other documents that the ATF clearly states I can use.
 
weakfish said:
I did one transfer there a few years ago, an original Armalite AR-7. Figured would try a local place. As someone mentioned, it’s a hardware store, not a gun shop. Had to email the request to do the transfer, wouldn’t speak to me directly. When it arrived and went to pickup it up, received nothing but attitude. Needless to say I never went back, not even for any hardware item. He generally has a bad rep in the neighborhood.
Click to expand...

Yeah. He was a complete A-hole the second I walked into the door. His mental health is definitely questionable - irrational and extremely angry about things that don't warrant such behavior. I hate to say it, but this guy is a bit of a red flag.
 
Mountain_Dad said:
Yeah. He was a complete A-hole the second I walked into the door. His mental health is definitely questionable - irrational and extremely angry about things that don't warrant such behavior. I hate to say it, but this guy is a bit of a red flag.
Click to expand...
a few of his Google reviews show this isn't an uncommon take on his 'tude
 

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