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Excellent point, id also throw in the fact that sometimes these A holes have vests. Rifle, armor and 30rd mags vs. my CCW, no thank you. If I have a clear way out I'm taking itLet me guess... never served in the .mil?
Forgetting about the legal ramifications, the likelihood of surviving an engagement with an adversary fielding an AR with 30 round magazines, with your micro compact 9mm are so remote that you will likely never face trial.
If you "are on the other side of the store" GTFO. You have almost no chance with your ccw. Sure, it's better than a sharp stick, but not by much.
A much more likely scenario is that a few people will be able to get out the exit, that you should have used, while the perp is engaged in turning you into a #2 pencil. Full of lead.
That headline is going to start with... " Man heroically gives his life, in an attempt to....pretend he is Rambo"
I think you watch too many movies.
Ha ha. This was closer to the point than 99.99% of other NES posts!This thread doesn’t have anything to do with self defense in the home. There is no duty to retreat in MA if you are inside your home.
I won't call you selfish. In fact I don't know what I'd do. On the rare occasions that I am ever in such a store with family, we do not stick together, which would complicate the situation, though not enough to make me start pretending to be John McLane. Fortunately, in WalMart there is low occupant density and much concealment and cover that can be exploited for evasion and retreat. The chances of being tempted to engage an active shooter seem infinitesimal on top of the infinitesimal chance of being there for such an event in the first place. Except as an academic legal topic, it isn't worth discussing.Call me selfish, but unless my family, my friends, or I am in grave danger, I'm going to find the nearest exit. In Massachusetts, the cost of even the most justified shooting can approach 6 and 7 figures, can jeopardize my job, my financial stability and my health, and can put me at grave risk. I'm not willing to face those kinds of costs for strangers.
To ask a follow up question; if you shoot the predictor do you think he will see it coming?To answer the op question, if you shoot the predictor, there is possibility you get shot by another cow individual who thinks you are the predator. Think that way too.
On several other gun sites I belong to, the tackleberrys bring this stuff up. They work these scenarios up that involve tactical rolls and precision shooting. Shooting around corners, etc.I reject your premise. You sound like you are fishing. We do NOT live in a "mass shooting world." Stop listening to the gun grabbers who hype everything up in order to advance their agenda of confiscation and total disarmament of the population.
Can not, they sell cheap shits at reasonable price, and their store have ammo ,and plenty of rooms to play run and hide lolStay out of WalMart?
At rush hours. If you go before 8 am on the weekends, there is no one there. Same thing after 9 pm.Stay out of WalMart?
I guess I was brought up a little different, I had a lot of Heroes growing up, mostly WWII Vets, my Dad my uncles, neighbors down the street, some were Korean war vets, When I joined the service my Heroes were some of the Sergeant's that were in Vietnam. Cowardice or retreat was rarely an option for them.
Everyone says this but in most of these everything will be over by the time the cops show up. I agree with you in the sense that i wouldn't want to be in a prolonged engagement waiting for cops to show up.Biggest issue that has been touched upon here is the responding officer reaction. In 2024 you're pretty likely to get shot even as the good guy...
Or more than likely watches too much f***ing television. "Television programming" has two different meanings and the more dangerous one is the one people don't think about.+1
Such a ridiculous premise made me think OP is either trolling or grossly immature. Perhaps both.
This post is so gay.Thank you all for another exhilarating intellectual exercise, which resulted in one sub discussion about the main gist, which was legality of the scenario, and a bunch of other tangents which had nothing to do with the OP.
To the poster who thinks I am "anti-gun"...I am hardly that! Just ask Derek, he knows I like 'em, and like them unreasonably large.
To the poster who posted the jury instruction on self-defense...Thanks for that, but they were dated from 2009. Is there anything available that is more current?
To the poster who asked if I was ever .mil. No, never had the pleasure to serve, sir.
I forgot that one bit about NES...If you make an OP that does not fit the paradigm of every readers's thought processes, they will disagree and de-evolve into calling it "gay".
I think that is what makes NES a great place for discourse.
OP you are an intelligent adult. You know how gun owners are treated in Mass.Thank you all for another exhilarating intellectual exercise, which resulted in one sub discussion about the main gist, which was legality of the scenario, and a bunch of other tangents which had nothing to do with the OP.
This is spot on, but I don't intend to walk around carrying my AR. If an LCP in the pocket gives me the slightest chance, I'll take it.OP you are an intelligent adult. You know how gun owners are treated in Mass.
I would suggest that if you have to contemplate the legality of using your firearm, then you would likely be better of not using it. Because none of us would stop for a millisecond to consider laws, if defending loved ones.
The reason I asked if you had served is that, those who have will tell you that engaging someone with an AR/ AK/ rifle with a 30 round magazine, with a pistol, is a great way to get dead.
On TV and in the movies, John Wick takes down five guys armed with rifles at the ready and then does an unnecessary judo role while reloading and putting two in the sixth bad guy's head.
AR's are so easy to shoot that even a newb can put rounds on target and rifle rounds are so much more effective than any hand gun round.
If you have no other choice, backed into a corner, sure, all bets are off and you do the best you can. But if you are forced to advance and engage a rifleman with a handgun, you better try to flank/ ambush him, because if he can see you coming you will not be down for breakfast.
To the poster who posted the jury instruction on self-defense...Thanks for that, but they were dated from 2009. Is there anything available that is more current?
A person is not guilty of any crime if he acted in proper defense of another. It is the Commonwealth's burden to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant did not act in proper defense of another. The defendant does not have the burden to prove that he acted in proper defense of another. If the Commonwealth fails to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant did not act in proper defense of another, then you must find the defendant not guilty.[91]
The Commonwealth may satisfy its burden of proving that the defendant did not act in proper defense of another by proving any one of the following three propositions beyond a reasonable doubt:[92]
[Note to Judge: Where the evidence, viewed in the light most favorable to the defendant, would permit the jury to find that the force used by the defendant in killing the victim was either deadly or non-deadly force, the defendant is entitled to instructions on the use of both deadly and non-deadly force in defense of another and the jury shall decide on the type of force used.[96]]
- The defendant did not actually believe that the other person was in immediate danger of death or serious bodily harm from which the other person could save himself only by using deadly force. You need not determine whether the other person actually believed himself to be in immediate danger of death or serious bodily harm; you must focus instead on whether the defendant actually had that belief.[93]
- A reasonable person in the circumstances known to the defendant would not have believed that the other person was in immediate danger of death or serious bodily harm from which the other person could save himself only by using deadly force. You need not determine whether a reasonable person in the circumstances known to the other person would have believed himself to be in immediate danger of death or serious bodily harm; you must focus instead on what a reasonable person in the circumstances known to the defendant would have believed.[94]
- A reasonable person in the circumstances known to the defendant would not have believed that the other person was justified in using deadly force to protect himself.[95]
Deadly or Non-deadly Force: Deadly force is force that is intended to or likely to cause death or serious bodily harm. Non-deadly force, by contrast, is force that is not intended to or likely to cause death or serious bodily harm.[97] If the defendant, based on the circumstances known to the defendant, had reasonable grounds to believe (1) that the other person was in immediate danger of harm from which the other person could save himself only by using non-deadly force, and (2) that the other person was justified in using non-deadly force to protect himself, then the defendant had the right to use whatever non-deadly means were reasonably necessary to avert the threatened harm, but he could use no more force than was reasonable and proper under the circumstances. You must consider the proportionality of the force used to the threat of immediate harm in assessing the reasonableness of non-deadly force.[98]
That is pretty much the bargain we all make.This is spot on, but I don't intend to walk around carrying my AR. If an LCP in the pocket gives me the slightest chance, I'll take it.
But seriously, though, mass shooters don’t all sort into the BMF category, and an AK or AR does not endow the others magically with the courage to face being shot at. That mall shooter who got stopped recently folded and retreated. I don’t remember them all, but I don’t think he was the first. I want to say it’s more like a coin flip than a miracle if your mass shooter turns out not to be a badass when anyone is shooting back at him.That is pretty much the bargain we all make.
And there is a chance, that if you pull an LCP on a guy with an AK, he may die laughing.
Or just feel sorry for you and let you go.
Just kidding man.