Center Fire vs. Rim Fire

[rapture]

I'm sure this is going to cause a huge debate, but that is not my intention. I have owned both centerfire and rimfire pistols, and have always found that the centerfire pistols performed much better. Maybe I just had bad luck with the rimfire pistols, but both rimfire pistols I owned had the exact same problem. Both pistols would repeatedly fail to eject the spent cartridge causing the gun to jam.
I tried several different types of ammunition in several different velocities including: CCI SV and CCI Blazers, but without luck. I was under the assumption that either the rimfire ammo lacked the power needed to force the slide back, or that the casing was expanding from the heat and getting wedged. I was constatly using a cleaning rod to pop out the old casings, which makes target shooting no fun, and a dangerous CCW.
As I stated, maybe I just had bad luck. The two rimfire pistols I owned were a used Jennings J22 (which was notorious for jamming), and a brand new Walther P22 (which I never heard anything about them jamming). I kept both pistols clean and well oiled, as well as the magazines. I also tried using the P22 with the 3.4" and the 5" barrels.
I am not ready to give up on rimfire pistols just yet. I think that they are definately usefull and certainly have a place in my collection. I don't want to go through this again, and lose faith in rimfire all together. I'm in the market for a new or used rimfire pistol, and would like some help in choosing one that won't give me headaches. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thank You,
Rapture

 

[Bugs100]

I have a Jennings too and their worthless, If the walther is clean it might be time to change the recoil spring.

 

[Len-2A Training]

You obviously did NOT read my prior posts on the P22!

I bought one and it jammed on much of the ammo we tried (~5 different brands of Hi-Vel). It does have a reputation for being ammo-finicky . . . I confirmed this with S&W/Walther Tech Supt.

I cleaned the gun but it didn't help. I then polished the feed ramp and set the gun aside to sell (never tried it after that).

A NES Member bought the gun and reported a few initial feed problems that smoothed out for him after a short time. Seems like polishing the feedramp might be a worthwhile task.

 

[rapture]

If the walther is clean it might be time to change the recoil spring.

The Walther was clean and it jammed since day one. Perhaps I got one with a bad spring? That might be possible. It was stolen from my apartment about a year ago while I was at work. They stole my entire 350 lb safe in broad daylight! I've been thinking about another P22 because I really liked that pistol but I'm afraid of going through all that again.

 

[dwarven1]

I'm in the market for a new or used rimfire pistol, and would like some help in choosing one that won't give me headaches. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Jennings is actually spelled "Jam-O-Matic". As for the Walther, I've read several complaints of the early models jamming - IIRC, LenS had one.

I've owned two Ruger Mark 1 pistols, and I love them. Absolutely great pistols. They can be fussy about ammo, but once you find what they like, they're very reliable. (Remington recently changed the shape of the hollowpoint bullet in their bulk packs, and as a result my Mark 1 won't feed them reliably at all - so I switched to Federal. No more jams.)

I understand that the Mark 2s and 3s are even better. Personally, I'm quite happy with my Mark 1. Inexpensive to buy, inexpensive to feed, accurate and extra mags are easy to find: what more could you want?

Anyway, that's my suggestion. Oh, and one other thing... don't use a .22 for a carry gun. I think that the round is just a little too lightweight for that purpose.

 

[KMaurer]

I've got a Ruger Mark II and a Ruger Single Six (with the interchangable.22 and .22wmr cylinders). No problems with either, except that the grips on the Single Six are too small to be confortable; by kids used to love it and I expect my granddaughters will in a year or two.

Ken

 

[PatMcD]

You can't go wrong with a Ruger .22. I have a 22/45 that has never jammed. With all .22's, you need to keep them clean. .22 ammo is the dirtiest stuff out there.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Ross,

My P22 was actually one of the later models that "fixed" the problem. I really think that the feed ramp just needed polishing on those guns. I seriously doubt that weak springs are the issue.

 

[hminsky]

I have found it depends critically on the ammo used. CCI Standard Velocity (*NOT* Blazer) works best in everything I have. Most other .22 ammo does not work nearly as well. I had some Winchester stuff that hardly works at all.

I only buy the CCI stuff in the blue box now, from Four Seasons. I think it is slightly smaller circumference than the other ammo, or maybe polished more, I don't know but it jams much less frequently in all my .22 rifles and pistols.

 

[Bugs100]

Len is right polish the ramp and if that isnt it change the spring.

 

[daceman63]

I've had nothing but great luck with a S&W Model 41 using CCI mini mags. Anything less I would have an occaisional ejection problem. I've competed with that for 6 years and never had an alibi. I've had misfires in practice...everyone does but it's been very reliable for me.

 

[rapture]

Len is right polish the ramp and if that isnt it change the spring.

That is one thing I did try. I never got to changing the spring though. That would have been the next logical step. Also, it wasn't my primary CCW. I use a Glock 22 .40cal for that. The Walther fit rather nicely in an ankle holster. Perfect for backup!

 

[bazfoo]

For the short time that I had a P22, it seemed to like CCI minimags. The extra oomph help cycle it. In general, though, my opinion on that gun is quite low.

For short money on a 22 that will make you smile, go for a Ruger MK I/II/III. Built like tanks, very reliable and a lot of fun to shoot.

Of course, if you have the money to spend, get a SW 41, although from what I've read, the recommended ammo is CCI Standard Velocity.

 

[daceman63]

Of course, if you have the money to spend, get a SW 41, although from what I've read, the recommended ammo is CCI Standard Velocity.

I've also read the CCI Standard, but my 41 performs flawlessly with the mini-mags. I've had issues with standard velocity and it was easier to use the mini-mags then send the 41 out for a diagnostic. I would start with the standard and if no issues then there is no need to change it up.

 

[rapture]

I went to Four Seasons today and looked at a used Walther P22 (I still have all my Walther holsters and accessories), and a used Ruger MKIII. I couldn't decide between the two, so I had to buy both! The true taste test will be tomorrow at the range. I'll keep you updated.

 

[M1911]

Maybe I just had bad luck with the rimfire pistols

Well, Jennings is a POS. And that's true of their centerfire pistols as well as rimfire.

Quality rimfire pistols (e.g., Ruger MkII, Browning Buckmark) work quite well. Note, however, that you are likely to get many more misfires with rimfire than centerfire.

 

[highlander]

I have a Ruger 22/45 very reliable but 2 things that seem common on the these pistols the front and rear sights always seem to work loose at least on the many I have come in contact with.F irst thing i did was loc-tite the front sight the push out the roll pin that holds the rear sight and give it just a little bend and put it back sight stay put
And yes I called Ruger on this and response was kinda ho hum

 

[rapture]

Took both pistols to the range today. On the Walther P22 once I got the rear sight lined up I shot 4 in the bullseye, 3 9's and 3 8's on a small silhouette at 10 yards. Great grouping. Out of 200 rounds of CCI Blazer I had 2 that stuck in the barrell. With the Ruger MKIII, I got 6 in the bullseye, and 4 9's on the same type target, same ammo and same distance. No misfires and no misloads. Incredible gun. Best shooting i have ever done. I've decided i'm keeping them both!
On a side note I had a good laugh. Someone, obviousley new, next to me with a rented SW1911 doing a spray and pray every round, on a large silhouette at 5 yards. He actually managed to hit the paper twice out of 100 rounds! I overheard him telling his friend that he didn't have fun cause he missed so much. His friend, obviousley not new, just turned around and left him there!

 

[Scrivener]

I've got a Ruger Mark II and a Ruger Single Six (with the interchangable.22 and .22wmr cylinders). No problems with either, except that the grips on the Single Six are too small to be confortable;

Roger that, although I don't have a major problem with the Single Six grips. I'm on my third Mark and learned long ago to avoid "bargain" ammo. No Blazers, Zappers, Thunderbolts, Lightings or any other cheap promo ammo. It might work in the revolver (although I had some Winchester promo garbage so bad you could see the bullets were misaligned on the case with the bare eye), but the autoloaders won't take them.

Winchester T22 is my cost-effective recommendation. About $18 a brick, available at pretty much any real gun store, and all my Rugers eat them up without a hitch. Remington target is a tad more and also works well.

 

[dreppucci007]

On a side note I had a good laugh. Someone, obviousley new, next to me with a rented SW1911 doing a spray and pray every round, on a large silhouette at 5 yards. He actually managed to hit the paper twice out of 100 rounds! I overheard him telling his friend that he didn't have fun cause he missed so much. His friend, obviousley not new, just turned around and left him there!

He only hit the paper twice?! Funny?...yes. You should've given him some pointers if you witnessed the whole thing. He obviously didn't know what the hell he was doing. Ignorance and carelessness are the two causes of firearm accidents. Hopefully that guy thinks first about taking a lesson or advice from people before he goes shooting again.

 

[rapture]

You should've given him some pointers if you witnessed the whole thing.

I thought about going over but his friend, who was obviousley not new, was trying to help him. The kid just wouldn't listen. His friend even tried pointing out that noone else in the range was doing anything like that but the kid wouldn't budge.

 

[Lugnut]

From my experience I'd certainly say that in general centerfire handguns seem to be significantly more reliable. I've seen tons of 22 misfires and hardly any centerfire misfires. My Ruger MkII (and several other 22s i've used) feeds worse than any other centerfire I've owned and is VERY sensitive to ammo.

That being said 22 target ammo is very inexpensive... but I'd NEVER use a 22 for CCW- not just because of reliability.. but I'm not convinced it's as effective as some of the common centerfire rounds.

The MkII has a place... but it's only for cheap target practice IMO.

 

[Moderator]

I have to Jennings that work ok and a Strearling that I have never used.

 

[Scrivener]

I had a Sterling in stainless. The external transfer bar was a thin stamping and, to me, suspect. Despite being touted as The Next Great Thing by the gun rags, I found the gun quite underwhelming. I sold it and have not used a rimfire for self defense since.

 

[Coyote33]

I have found it depends critically on the ammo used. CCI Standard Velocity (*NOT* Blazer) works best in everything I have. Most other .22 ammo does not work nearly as well. I had some Winchester stuff that hardly works at all.

I only buy the CCI stuff in the blue box now, from Four Seasons. I think it is slightly smaller circumference than the other ammo, or maybe polished more, I don't know but it jams much less frequently in all my .22 rifles and pistols.

That has got to be the dirtiest and least accurate ammo I've used. Just thought I'd throw that in to show that it really varies not only from brand to brand of gun, but even within types and the same exact model.

 

[Coyote33]

Regarding the Ruger and Browning. How come they are both 10 rounds? You'd think if they can fit in 15 rounds of 9mm in a handle/grip, that 20 of .22 would fit. It would sure make plinking more fun. Are there any .22 pistol which can take larger than 10 round clips? Something like the 20/22 banana clip makes going to the range seem more fun.

 

[Scrivener]

Regarding the Ruger and Browning. How come they are both 10 rounds? ... Are there any .22 pistol which can take larger than 10 round clips? Something like the 20/22 banana clip makes going to the range seem more fun.

What you are referring to as "clips" are, in fact, magazines.

Ruger does not make magazines with more than 10 rounds for mere civilians because old man Ruger told Congress no honest man needed more than that.

There is also the issue of rimmed cartridges (NOT "bullets") having a nasty tendency to jam in double-stack mags. They work better if kept in a straight line.

 

[Moderator]

I had a Sterling in stainless. The external transfer bar was a thin stamping and, to me, suspect. Despite being touted as The Next Great Thing by the gun rags, I found the gun quite underwhelming. I sold it and have not used a rimfire for self defense since.

You got money for yours? Lucky.

 

[Coyote33]

What you are referring to as "clips" are, in fact, magazines.

Ruger does not make magazines with more than 10 rounds for mere civilians because old man Ruger told Congress no honest man needed more than that.

There is also the issue of rimmed cartridges (NOT "bullets") having a nasty tendency to jam in double-stack mags. They work better if kept in a straight line.

I posted it before, but here it is again on clips and stuff:

Here are some references from a very quick google search:

http://www.cabelas.com/products/Cpod0012789.jsp
http://www.gunaccessories.com/Magazines/Ruger/Ruger.asp
http://www.cabelas.com/products/Cpod0012780.jsp
http://www.brasscatchers.com/ruger.htm
http://www.gunaccessories.com/Magazi.../AR-15_M16.asp
http://www.gunaccessories.com/Magazines/HK/HK.asp
http://www.1strateknives.com/daisybbpistols.html 6-shot rotary clip
http://search.ebay.com/9mm-clip

In short, they are selling clips. I don't see the problem in doing so, as everyone understands what it means. It is common parlance around here.

 

[Scrivener]

In short, they are selling clips. I don't see the problem in doing so, as everyone understands what it means. It is common parlance around here.

NO; they are selling magazines in ads written by and for those too lazy to learn the difference.

MAGS load ammo into the breech;

CLIPS load ammo into the mazazine.

The fact that you and others can't be bothered to acquaint yourselves with the correct terminology for the hobby you chose does not make your sloth correct.