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Carry guns with a micro dot mounted?

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ChevyGuy91

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Jose posted this article in an other thread, and rather then hijack a pretty serious thread, I thought I would start a new one.

Jose said:
I wonder how many here are going to disagree with this: http://www.warriortalknews.com/#tp
Click to expand...

I have read about these on the other forums, and it seems like some of the big name trainers use them, but I wanted to get the NES opinion on a set up like this on a Glock 19 (minus the threaded barrel);

IMG_0650.1.jpg


So what do you say? Natural progression with technology and totally worth it, or mall ninja's wet dream? I have never held or fired one, so I have no idea myself.
 
Simplicity and reliability trump everything. If it requires a battery, you can't rely on it without VERY rigorous maintainance. If you need it, what is your stress level gonna be when the gadget doesn't work. Are you prepared for that?

If you answer in the affirmative, then you don't need it.

If you answer in the negative, you shouldn't have it.
 
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Just introduces a new maintenance requirement(batteries.) Same as cleaning/lubrication or changing out ammo after a period of time.
Slowdive said:
Simplicity and reliability trump everything. If it requires a battery, you can't rely on it without VERY rigorous maintainance. If you need it, what is your stress level gonna be when the gadget doesn't work. Are you prepared for that?

If you answer in the affirmative, then you don't need it.

If you answer in the negative, you shouldn't have it.
Click to expand...
 
I think it's a natural progression. The red dot sight is commonplace on AR's, shotguns, etc these days... but I bet people got tons of shit back in the day when they were first putting red dots on their rifles... until people slowly realized that it actually made target acquisition faster. And with battery life like Aimpoint's 5+ years... there's just no downside to a red dot anymore.

The pistol, in relation to a rifle, is so small that the idea of putting a large red dot optic (from a few years ago) on top just didn't make any sense defensively. But now that we have a handful of robust, tiny red dots on the market... People are starting to put them on the pistols. Natural progression.
 
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The Trijicon Dual-Illuminated RMR does not require batteries and is water resistant

You still have your irons as a back up, there is no downside to having one
 
Thanks for the opinions, I kind of feel like I would like to try one myself. Maybe it is worth trying with a second slide, that way there is no permanent mod done to the gun. The RMR is the dot I had in mind, and I like the idea of having it with the suppressor sights so you can run either or if needed. I might throw it in the project hopper.
 
how do you mount it to the slide?

I have an RMR, and theres no way thats fitting on my glock as is.

theses are the mounts
RM37_0web.jpg


how do you get them on the slide?
 
Natural progression, and a M&P slide cut for a RMR is on my long-term todo list.

However, I've heard concerns that the dot is pretty difficult to track under recoil; with full-power defensive loads, especially in .45ACP, the gun can flip such that the dot can leave the field of view. That's a downside.
 
TheRoland said:
Natural progression, and a M&P slide cut for a RMR is on my long-term todo list.

However, I've heard concerns that the dot is pretty difficult to track under recoil; with full-power defensive loads, especially in .45ACP, the gun can flip such that the dot can leave the field of view. That's a downside.
Click to expand...

Doesn't really matter as you are not looking at the dot, you are looking at the target, dot goes up, dot comes back down. The problem come from a bad grip and index and the dot does not return to the POA
 
Slowdive said:
Simplicity and reliability trump everything. If it requires a battery, you can't rely on it without VERY rigorous maintainance. If you need it, what is your stress level gonna be when the gadget doesn't work. Are you prepared for that?

If you answer in the affirmative, then you don't need it.

If you answer in the negative, you shouldn't have it.
Click to expand...
1) Several brands of red dot sights are combat proven. Find them and avoid the hobbyist brands.

2) The battery life in selected, professional grade red dot sights is astronomical. Several Aimpoint models have battery lives measured in years. Your comment about VERY rigorous maintenance is nonsense.

3) Any reputable installation of RDS on pistols will also include usable iron sights that are properly co-witnessed. Just like rifles.

At the rate my near focusing ability is going, I see an RDS on my G17 in the near future.
 
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Supermoto said:
Natural progression. I would want the red dot melted in a little deeper so that the rear sight was still usable
Click to expand...

+1. I would like the pistol version of an AR setup, i.e. the ability to co-witness through a rear sight in case of failure.

The rifle crowd went through this same angst just a few years ago. For all "it's a toy" crowd, I'd have just two thoughts from that world:

1. I've never seen, in pictures or in person, a serious operator with an AR set up without some kind of a optical sight, be it Trij, Aimpoint, whatever.
2. I'd be interested in some real data on how often guys in real combat have had red-dots fail and been forced to transition to back-up sights. I'm guessing it's not very often
 
I've been testing a JPoint on my carry gun for the past 8 months or so. I decided to try the dovetail mount before I invested in the slide milling. Here is my personal experience so far:

The micro really should be melted in. It sits too high on a dovetail mount and even with shooting it a couple times a week for months, under stress training my natural point was still higher - meaning I had trouble finding the dot. B/c of the micro height, you have to bring the gun down slightly to pick it up.

Its unbelievably fast. Shooting on the move, awkward angles, etc are a lot easier. As Supermoto says, you don't look at the dot, you look at the target. When the dot hits the spot you pull the trigger. Making one hole is easy. Making accurate shots on the move is even easier.

No issues with either 40 or 9mm. I actually found it was easier to shoot the 40 accurately in my M&P compact. Even with the snappiness of the 40, as soon as the dot settles you can pull the trigger. Its faster for me than regular sights.

Concealment is a bit awkward. I carry a little past 3:00. This makes the micro stick out right by the hip bone. A - it prints a little. B - You feel it. As a lefty, this is typically right where my seatbelt is in the car. This at times was uncomfortable if I didn't shift. You also do feel it in your side and I'm constantly worrying about breaking the housing by sitting down wrong.

So overall I think its a worthwhile addition to a carry gun, given its melted into the slide and backup sights are still available. The speed and ease of use outweigh the other issues. I have not found that it has any effect on performance or reliability. Shooting PD ammo, WW box, and reloads all worked 100%.

Here is what it looks like with the dovetail mount.

mp_compact.jpg
 
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rlee said:
That's certainly true. Has the military looked at red dots on sidearms?
Click to expand...
Probably not as seriously as civilians.

Handguns are probably third or fourth on down the list on importance as a wepon to soldiers. Indirect fire and rifles are used far more than pistols.

OTOH, handguns are the primary weapon for police and private citizens so that is who is doing the bulk of the R&D on the idea it seems.

I bet the people who have been privately developing RDS pistols can teach the military quite a bit about this concept.
 
zerodown said:
mp_compact.jpg
Click to expand...

Very nice. I'd be concerned that there might not be enough room on the Compact slide for BUIS. I wonder if you could use the JPoint housing as a rear sight? Also, nice use of that awesome grip-tape. I'm going to have to order some more.

Your and Supermoto's explanation about dot-tracking makes sense, but I've just become used to tracking the front-sight all the way [hmmm].

Is height-over-bore a poa-poi issue with the non-melted mount? I think that might be a good way to try it out, although it seems like melting is only in the 200$ range.
 
I'm not against red dot's (or lasers) on principle, I own both. Nor am I anti-technology. I just don't see it for a CCW piece. In my mind , likely CCW defense scenario's (and CCW weapons) are different enough from HD or Military scenario's to make them harder to justify.

As another example:
Auto-loaders were a natural progression from revolvers, but I still use a revolver for CCW. I use an autoloader for HD.

Different use case, different tools. No right or wrong, just personal choices
 
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