About 40 guns stolen from Lowell home

[pipmaster1971]

Heard this on the news during my drive home. I too was stumped by the cops lack of logic.

 

[Mikel131]

Sorry I duped missed page 2 Nothing hear to see move on.

 

[Bill Katt]

FWIW: I was talking with a Chief of Police for a Ma. town this past Summer and he said that he would consider firearms stored in a closet with a locked "solid" door to be a to be properly stored in a locked container. It's just like the whole suitable person thing only with what I would consider to be a little more leeway as far as what the locked container can be.

 

[walkit]

Hey, if you choose to live in an antigun state, and put lots of $ into a highly controversial type and number of guns, your indiscetion and lack of concern about your freedom/risk is quite likely to bite you in the butt. Why stay there, giving tax money to your enemies, hmm? Why have more than a minimal battery there? Why aint anything else cached elsewhere, or stored in another state.

 

[Maxpower]

This story makes my stomach turn in a bad way. This guy was robbed, yet he is being treated like a criminal. Speechless.

 

[DickWanner]

Dick,

Is a closet a locked container per:

Chapter 140 Section 131L. (a) It shall be unlawful to store or keep any firearm, rifle or shotgun including, but not limited to, large capacity weapons, or machine gun in any place unless such weapon is secured in a locked container or equipped with a tamper-resistant mechanical lock or other safety device, properly engaged so as to render such weapon inoperable by any person other than the owner or other lawfully authorized user. For purposes of this section, such weapon shall not be deemed stored or kept if carried by or under the control of the owner or other lawfully authorized user.

I am a safe guy so I don't care but is has been asked on here pretty regularly and it would be good to know if I ever found myself in an away from home situation that I needed to store the firearm without a safe or trigger lock available.

That is the MGL, aka letter law. I am talking about court cases, aka case law, that have already given you some of the clarity you seek. As in a soft-sided case with a luggage lock through the zippers meeting the secure container requirement.

 

[enbloc]

.

 

[Masterguns]

I wonder how many times the neighbors watched him move long guns or pistol boxes from his house-to-his-car trunk...from his car trunk-to-his-house...everytime he went to the gun range?
Or how often his kid told his buddies;"you should see my dads bitchin' AR-15"

I move my guns in and out like I'm dumping bodies or trafficing coke.

These times require stealth ownership, IMHO

~Matt

this

granted the article only talks about the firearms being taken because "OH MY GOD THEY IS GUNS!!!!" so who knows if they went through the rest of the house stealing jewelry and what have you but its likely the guns were the main target

loose lips sink ships... or in this case get guns stolen

 

[el duderino]

whatever they can do to get guns out of the hands of seemingly law abiding citizens, treat them like criminals instead of the victim they are

when they say vault, it sounds like a heavily fortified room, solid door with multiple locks, quite possibly thicker walls instead of a walk in closet with a deadbolt on it. sounds like a lot more than most gunowners would do, id be willing to bet the majority of gunowners have yet to invest in a safe. once i have my own place, id like a room just like the one in the first tremors movie with wall to wall guns..
back to the story at hand.. i hope goal or the nra steps in to help this guy when the lowell police ultimately try not to return this guys ltc
think its time this guy left lowell though, he cant protect himself now and its obvious the police dont want him to

oh and they should start with who knows he has guns, as it sounds like they knew where they were going by breaking into the cellar and only taking guns as there is no mention of anything else being stolen. does this guy have kids who may have said something to their friends? maybe investigate the crime instead of investigating the homeowner..

 

[terraformer]

Easy, the Second Amendment is a PRIVILEGE in MA, not a right. They can do whatever the hell they want.

Not for long...

A Glock box with a padlock through the plastic holes sitting in a cooler in a back yard was determined by the courts to be a secure container as the law is written... if the description of a vault is anything close to our conception of a vault (rather than a closet), then he should have been left alone.

Let's hear about Comm2a, one of our esteemed attorneys, and GOAL jumping up and down on this police chief! We used to always hear about LARGO defending gun rights in MA, but I haven't heard anything about them in a long time.

The problem here is that this guy needs a lawyer to make this go away. It should go away. This guy does not need to be nor should he have to be a martyr for the gun owners of this state at the expense of his freedom. If they charge him and insist on prosecuting him we will gladly review his case and help out if it appears to be something that truly is worthy (which I am not doubting it is, only that with the years experience thus far I can tell you people lie about things on both sides of the fence). But his lawyer's first job is to make this go away and I believe here a lawyer can possibly do so. The chief is heated and a good lawyer can probably get him to back down from this quixotic joust.

Only after that is when we (Comm2A) can step in and offer help. We walk the lawyers through the case law, through the specifics of the allegations against their clients and tell them the best 2A defense available to them. Our lawyers then review the filings the defendant's lawyers make.

Also, we can't act outside the bounds of the ethics rules that the lawyers work in. I can't do on behalf of them what the lawyers can't ethically do themselves in other words. Thus, I can not call this guy directly nor can I ask anyone else to call him. I can call his lawyer so if the press reports mention a lawyers name, PM me the guys name and the link. If people know people who have been wronged, have them call us. Worse case we tell them we can't help them but generally I give their lawyers a packet of good info to work from specific to their case. You would be amazed at how few lawyers know 2A law.

When we work with defendants it is a different matter than the Hellers and the McDonalds and it is usually hidden and quiet. Plaintiffs we scream and yell about (though we have our reasons on keeping Hightower quiet which was unique to that case) these cases when we file them. The people who take them are gungho for a challenge against the system and they have no liability when taking these challenges so they can walk away at the end without any criminal record, etc. This is why they seek us out. They want to help the cause as well as themselves and to stop the abuses. With defendants, we aren't about to make martyrs out of people for our own selfish reasons. We provide help and assistance in hopes of helping them and the secondary goals are to have the case result in making it better for the next guy. That's the ethical thing to do.

Also, the state knows how to abuse this system and in cases where the evidence is weak they CWOF the guy or given them pre-trial probation. This is usually a no brainer (the CWOF can be dangerous however if the defendant gets the right one it is OK) for the defendant but when they do this, it is an agreement and part of that agreement is that they give up their right to challenge the prosecution in the future. So basically the state is buying off the victims by CWOF'ing them and basically setting them free. The cost to them is no conviction. The benefit to the defendant is no conviction. But the costs to us as a group are the ability for the next little hitler to do it again. Take Girard up in M-B-T-S. He CWOF'd and as a result he likely gave up his right to seek damages from the state for what they did. A CWOF is a contract and he signed it. One could say it was under duress but most judges won't buy that.

 

[C-pher]

yeah, i dont know how they do that. i never had a gun stolen. (knock on wood) I am guessing the guy jsut gave them the serial numbers, and the cops will check to see if he actually bought them. If he didnt, and they werent legal, he just wouldn't talk.

if they steal illegal drugs out of your car, do you call the cops?

How are they going to prove that he bought them? What if they were family guns that he got...what if he isn't from Lowell and he moved to MA with them?

I would like to know how they can think that somes aren't legal?

 

[swampy]

just like a cop to kick you when you are down.

 

[RichM]

Terra, thank you for taking the time to post a cogent, logical response to this travesty.

 

[glockstones]

I have always wondered what happened to "Innocent until proven guilty".

 

[swampy]

What if they didn't steal all his guns? Would the cops take the rest away? They'd have to if they revoke his license I suppose. It just doesn't make sense. He's going to feel the need to protect himself even more now that he's been violated. Good thing he wasn't raped...I can imagine what the cops might want to take from him!

i think you do have to report it. what if someone gets shot with your gun? and you never reported it stolen? you are in big trouble.

they dont just take your license away. This guys license was probably revoked till the investigation is over. They cant take your gun license away because someone broke into your house. (assuming you werent braking any laws)

 

[mass]

=Kamal Jain;1703434]Great — two blocks from my house.

What's your address, how many guns do you have and where do you store them?

 

[SheepDog_B]

quote:
Two gunmen allegedly shot up a New Year's party killing one woman and hospitalizing seven other people.
......

The article and police are full of fail.
Who the hell wrote this, a high school newspaper? Shot up... really?
Lowell is another Gotham City like Springfield.

+1 on More ammo this weekend!

 

[terraformer]

I have always wondered what happened to "Innocent until proven guilty".

They have pissed on the concept by abusing the rule of law.

 

[twogunwilly]

Welcome home, 2 kicks in the nuts coming up. That is just pitiful, poor bastard.

 

[dwarven1]

I wonder how many times the neighbors watched him move long guns or pistol boxes from his house-to-his-car trunk...from his car trunk-to-his-house...everytime he went to the gun range?

Two words: Attached garage.

 

[PaulD]

Hey, if you choose to live in an antigun state, and put lots of $ into a highly controversial type and number of guns, your indiscetion and lack of concern about your freedom/risk is quite likely to bite you in the butt. Why stay there, giving tax money to your enemies, hmm? Why have more than a minimal battery there? Why aint anything else cached elsewhere, or stored in another state.

Hey, how about if you:
a) learn to spell
b) not blame the gun owner like the police are doing
c) not make assumptions about people's lives and...
d) stfu

hmm?

 

[Masterguns]

Two words: Attached garage.

or...

"Well i'll see you later neighbor... just going to go to my guitar lesson now..."

 

[DoubleDoeHoe]

Hey, how about if you:
a) learn to spell
b) not blame the gun owner like the police are doing
c) not make assumptions about people's lives and...
d) stfu

hmm?

+This

 

[JackDaniels]

they dont just take your license away. This guys license was probably revoked till the investigation is over. They cant take your gun license away because someone broke into your house. (assuming you werent braking any laws)

That isn't necessarily true. An LTC, for example, is completely up to the Chief's discretion. You don't have the right to an LTC in MA. You only have the right to an FID card.

If its an LTC, they can take it away because the COP sneezed and you didn't say "God bless you".

 

[mac1911]

home built secure vault....hmmm unless they can prove they where not locked in his little vault where are the storage issues.

Seems to me police will look for and charge anyone and everone they can then let the DA or prosecutor sort it out.
There is nothing stopping the PD from revokeing the permit......

Can you protest or chalenge a revoke ????

sucks to have guns stolen, Im guessing its someone he knows or someone who knows who he knows. If they are not ARs or evil looking firearms or handguns whats not easily sold will be in the bushes down the street.....maybe

 

[terraformer]

The Lowell Scum, I mean Sun, Reported that he had built a vault in his cellar. I prefer to call that a secure room. That has already been decided to meet the standards of MGL Chap 140. The idea of the screwed up law was not to prevent theft, But to prevent access to the firearms by some one "Lawfully" in the home.

This is exactly the case. I forgot to point this out, but the law here is being over extended to cover something it wasn't meant to. It is why I think a lawyer can make this go away.

 

[Len-2A Training]

MGL does not mention the word "safe", only 'secure container'.

. . . as one OPTION. A gun lock suffices per MGL.

theres just not enough info available yet... why are they going after the homeowner instead of the CRIMINALS who actually stole the guns?

A: are they investigating him and revoking his license because the superintendant is a pompus ass?

B: or is it because his idea of "home made vault" is some plywood and a master lock?

just not enough info, hopefully we will find out more to this story

And since a mere trigger lock is sufficient to meet S. 131L (see wording below), plywood and a Master Lock is fine.

Chapter 140 Section 131L. (a) It shall be unlawful to store or keep any firearm, rifle or shotgun including, but not limited to, large capacity weapons, or machine gun in any place unless such weapon is secured in a locked container or equipped with a tamper-resistant mechanical lock or other safety device, properly engaged so as to render such weapon inoperable by any person other than the owner or other lawfully authorized user.

So laying on a tabletop, with a trigger lock applied is perfectly legal.

FWIW: I was talking with a Chief of Police for a Ma. town this past Summer and he said that he would consider firearms stored in a closet with a locked "solid" door to be a to be properly stored in a locked container. It's just like the whole suitable person thing only with what I would consider to be a little more leeway as far as what the locked container can be.

And THIS IS THE PROBLEM!!

MGL says one thing (and it's NOT geared to "anti-theft"), but police chiefs WANT secure to mean with multiple layers of security, preferably with a chainlock bolted to a concrete pad!

Legally there is no basis for their opinion. HOWEVER "suitability" allows them to punish anyone they want for not doing what they want, the law be damned. A perfect example of "abuse of power" but the legistraitors will do absolutely nothing to stop them and many judges are just as bad.

 

[Broc]

How are they going to prove that he bought them? What if they were family guns that he got...what if he isn't from Lowell and he moved to MA with them?

serial numbers. thats how you trace the gun. If a family member passed it down to him, then the gun might be under his family members name, but it is still a legal gun.

If he moved here from another state, then when he applied for a license, they ask you if you had a license in another state, and the number.

anyways, it is bullshit that they revoked his license.

maybe we should all donate some money and get him a good lawyer to sue the state and the local PD. That would be money well spent in this state.

 

[DickWanner]

. . . as one OPTION. A gun lock suffices per MGL.

Correct, but I was responding to the repeated use of the word "safe".

 

[Broc]

Hey, if you choose to live in an antigun state, and put lots of $ into a highly controversial type and number of guns, your indiscetion and lack of concern about your freedom/risk is quite likely to bite you in the butt. Why stay there, giving tax money to your enemies, hmm? Why have more than a minimal battery there? Why aint anything else cached elsewhere, or stored in another state.

moving to another state is not that easy.

people have jobs, kids, own homes...you cant just get up and leave. Thats why people stay in places like MA.