About 40 guns stolen from Lowell home

[glide]

I can't tell what is going on in Lowell. If you own guns legally they treat you like a criminal.

If you illegally own a sawed off shotgun and illegally store it, you get released on personal recognizance. Where you can feel free to murder someone before your trial starts.

http://www.lowellsun.com/todaysheadlines/ci_17006067

 

[Kamal Jain]

Great — two blocks from my house.

Guilty until proven innocent is the MO for most "law enforcement" in Massachusetts, if not much of the nation nowadays, especially if you're a gun owner. Granted, we don't really know the details of the situation, but it sure smells funny as reported. Leave it to the media to make things cloudy and sinister-sounding, either on purpose or through willful laziness.

 

[Synyster]

Love how they refer to them as assault rifles.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Do you have to report a firearm theft to the police in MA? Or are you required to just fill out an FA-10 to document it?

The reason I ask is because they are never going to recover the guns anyway. Even if they did, they would not likely return them to you. And on top of that you lose your license. I would rather just eat the loss and have the ability to rebuild my collection.

MGL C. 140 S. 129C

A seller shall, within seven days, report all such transfers to the executive director of the criminal history systems board according to the provisions set forth in section one hundred and twenty-eight A and in the case of loss, theft or recovery of any firearm, rifle, shotgun or machine gun, a similar report shall be made forthwith to both the executive director of the criminal history systems board and the licensing authority in the city or town where the owner resides. Failure to so report shall be cause for suspension or permanent revocation of such person’s firearm identification card or license to carry firearms, or both. Violators shall be punished by a fine of not less than $200 nor more than $1000 for a first offense and by a fine of not less than $1000 nor more than $5000 for a second offense.

This is the ONE TIME that I recommend you send a copy of the FA-10s CERTIFIED MAIL/RETURN RECEIPT to your police chief. You may well need it as evidence in the ensuing court case to get your LTC back after he revokes it do to your loss!

 

[Len-2A Training]

I show them the FA-10 which I sent into the CHSB. Not my fault they scanned it into the machine and didn't investigate further.

And what about those purchased by blue card pre-1998, or from dealers pre-1986, where CHSB has NO RECORDS? Or what if you moved in with them (NO FA-10s required)?

It's either poor use of literary license by the reporter or a witch-hunt by a police department hell-bent on revoking someone's "privileges" (you have NO RIGHTS in MA, other than the "right" to pay taxes and bend over when commanded)!

 

[glide]

Update:
The guy had built a VAULT in his basement. Granted this could be a 'vault' in the sense that he had a 'cache' of weapons. But it seems as though they were secured properly.

"The owner of the property discovered that the cellar of his home had been broken into and that his home-built secure vault in the cellar area had been compromised."

Now here's the kicker. According to the article the police are going OUT OF THEIR WAY to find something to charge him with.

"Lowell Police are reviewing all aspects of state and federal gun laws to determine if there are any violations. The gunowner's Massachusetts license to carry a firearm was immediately revoked by Superintendent Kenneth Lavallee."

How about you stop wasting your time reviewing the state's gun laws and maybe...I don't know, go out and look for the guns?

Read more: http://www.lowellsun.com/ci_17006977#ixzz1A6dmCdxb

 

[DickWanner]

Do you have to report a firearm theft to the police in MA? Or are you required to just fill out an FA-10 to document it?

The reason I ask is because they are never going to recover the guns anyway. Even if they did, they would not likely return them to you. And on top of that you lose your license. I would rather just eat the loss and have the ability to rebuild my collection.

Well you have to send a copy of the FA-10 to your CLEO so they're going to find out regardless.

 

[ateamrob]

man I cant believe how the home owners LTC was revoked without having all the facts. Unfreakinreal......

what an ass backwards system

Rob

 

[Squished]

This just doesn't make sense. The man was properly licensed, have everything properly stored, was the victim of a robbery, lost all his guns, and then they revoked his ability to replace his collection and protect himself in the future? on what grounds? I understand the chief can revoke, but how does being the victim of a robbery make you unsuitable?

 

[Gadsden]

man I cant believe how the home owners LTC was revoked without having all the facts. Unfreakinreal......

what an ass backwards system

Rob

Easy, the Second Amendment is a PRIVILEGE in MA, not a right. They can do whatever the hell they want.

 

[Zappa]

LOWELL -- Police are asking for the public's help to prevent guns, including assault rifles, from falling into the hands of criminals.

Hey dipshit, the guns were STOLEN, they're already in the hands of criminals.

 

[schnips]

"The gunowner's Massachusetts license to carry a firearm was immediately revoked by Superintendent Kenneth Lavallee."

This blew my f-ing mind!

Edit: a part of me is glad that for some reason I can't read the comments on that story

 

[BradM]

If the guy has a clean record, sounds like a good MA court case for Comm2A or GOAL based on the McDonald & Heller rulings.

 

[theGringo]

From the OP article:

Two gunmen allegedly shot up a New Year's party killing one woman and hospitalizing seven other people. Police have said the alleged shooters, Jameson Phoun, 20, and Sothy Voeun, 19, both of Lowell, are associated with a gang and did not have licenses to carry the two .22-caliber rifles they allegedly used in the attack.

Round up the usual suspects. No, wait ... that would be racial profiling. Let's just harass the shit out of a bunch of white guys.

 

[bullseye]

The owner of the property discovered that the cellar of his home had been broken into and that his home-built secure vault in the cellar area had been compromised.

Missing from the vault were about 40 guns. State Police Crime Scene Services responded to the address to process the crime scene.

Many were handguns of various calibers and others were rifles. It appears now that most were registered to the homeowner.

An inventoried list of all known weapons has been provided to all federal, state and local police.


Read more: http://www.lowellsun.com/ci_17006977#ixzz1A6x5d83V
It says the homeowners "homebuilt vault" in his cellar, was compromised. OK, so you build a room in your basement, perhaps a walk in closet type, and secure the door with mega lock. Thieves come in and use tools to break in and steal guns, which looks to be the case, now you folks in MASS. have to contend with, what is an approved safe? Or better yet, cops that make their own laws based on day of the week and other methods of interpretations of the law, and this guy was cooperating. It would be straight to the Gulag if he didn't.

 

[DickWanner]

It says the homeowners "homebuilt vault" in his cellar, was compromised. OK, so you build a room in your basement, perhaps a walk in closet type, and secure the door with mega lock. Thieves come in and use tools to break in and steal guns, which looks to be the case, now you folks in MASS. have to contend with, what is an approved safe? Or better yet, cops that make their own laws based on day of the week and other methods of interpretations of the law, and this guy was cooperating. It would be straight to the Gulag if he didn't.

MGL does not mention the word "safe", only 'secure container'.

 

[Gadsden]

If the guy has a clean record, sounds like a good MA court case for Comm2A or GOAL based on the McDonald & Heller rulings.

I DO hope the 2A organizations have the lawyers warming up in the bullpen for this one.

In other news, the thugs that robbed the poor bastard now know he is un-armed. Way to go, MA. Great example of why I don't live there.

 

[Masterguns]

Police are asking for the public's help to prevent guns, including assault rifles, from falling into the hands of criminals.

Read more: http://www.lowellsun.com/ci_17006977#ixzz1A73US0DQ

 

[dwarven1]

Lowell Police are reviewing all aspects of state and federal gun laws to determine if there are any violations. The gunowner's Massachusetts license to carry a firearm was immediately revoked by Superintendent Kenneth Lavallee.

Police are investigating whether the resident had legally obtained all the firearms, Richardson said.

Read more: http://www.lowellsun.com/ci_17006977#ixzz1A70t68qX

Un-freakin'-believable. I hope the gun owner has Scrivener's number... I'd love to see Scriv sicced on the Lowell PD. That Kenneth Lavallee is a jackass. Wonder what he does to a rape victim?

 

[red87930]

if his guns werent properly stored then they might have a case. i was told all handguns not "in service" are supposed to be stored in a locked container or safe. i guess the police dont consider his house was a "locked container." this is why i spent the time and money on a solid gun safe. many cops and most government officials dont want anyone to possess a gun except for them ==> just like hitler, castro, hussein, kim jon-il, clinton, etc....

The "that his home-built secure vault in the cellar area had been compromised" statement would lead me to beleive this person may have a storage issue on their hands. This may answer the multitude of question raised here about closets and homes being storage containers. Probably if it aint in a safe or locked purpose made container it will be judged not stored properly. If you have thousands of dollars worth of firearms why would'nt you invest in a safe. The cost of the lawyer could be several safes and you would still have your toys. Not saying I agree with all the storage laws but just to keep the dirt bags from collecting my stuff this would make sense to me.

 

[Masterguns]

The home made security (or whatever language they used) would lead me to beleive this person may have a storage issue on there hands. This may answer the multitude of question raised here about closet and homes being storage containers. Probably if it aint in a safe or locked purpose made container it will be judged not stored properly.

theres just not enough info available yet... why are they going after the homeowner instead of the CRIMINALS who actually stole the guns?

A: are they investigating him and revoking his license because the superintendant is a pompus ass?

B: or is it because his idea of "home made vault" is some plywood and a master lock?

just not enough info, hopefully we will find out more to this story

 

[RichM]

The "that his home-built secure vault in the cellar area had been compromised" statement would lead me to beleive this person may have a storage issue on their hands. This may answer the multitude of question raised here about closets and homes being storage containers. Probably if it aint in a safe or locked purpose made container it will be judged not stored properly. If you have thousands of dollars worth of firearms why would'nt you invest in a safe. The cost of the lawyer could be several safes and you would still have your toys.

A Glock box with a padlock through the plastic holes sitting in a cooler in a back yard was determined by the courts to be a secure container as the law is written... if the description of a vault is anything close to our conception of a vault (rather than a closet), then he should have been left alone.

Let's hear about Comm2a, one of our esteemed attorneys, and GOAL jumping up and down on this police chief! We used to always hear about LARGO defending gun rights in MA, but I haven't heard anything about them in a long time.

 

[red87930]

theres just not enough info available yet... why are they going after the homeowner instead of the CRIMINALS who actually stole the guns?

A: are they investigating him and revoking his license because the superintendant is a pompus ass?

B: or is it because his idea of "home made vault" is some plywood and a master lock?


I sure hope the revocation is not based on A and look forward to B bringing clarity to what is considered safe stroage. It is discussed on this thread quite a bit.

 

[MisterHappy]

This guy is boned. The non-shooting public has no conception of why anyone would need 40 guns. And, they will see that the revocation of the LTC is a good move by the cops - someone must be blamed, and since the thieves are long gone, it's the [former] owner.

So, in the eyes of most readingh the article, he's the bad guy.

The analogy of "revoking a driver's license becasue your car was stolen" won't wash, as cars are a good thing, but guns are icky.

Best case: even if he's not brought up on storage problems, he'll have to spend $$ to get the LTC back.

Remember - the charges are put in the paper and the guy's rep is ruined; they're dropped, and there's no mention anywhere.

 

[red87930]

A Glock box with a padlock through the plastic holes sitting in a cooler in a back yard was determined by the courts to be a secure container as the law is written... if the description of a vault is anything close to our conception of a vault (rather than a closet), then he should have been left alone.

Let's hear about Comm2a, one of our esteemed attorneys, and GOAL jumping up and down on this police chief! We used to always hear about LARGO defending gun rights in MA, but I haven't heard anything about them in a long time.

The Glock Box with the holes is a purpose built lockable storage container. I don't think it is all I would use but it should pass as you state it did. I hope they define what this persons vault was constructed of and wether it was just a locked closet. Again it will be great to get some clarity with case history in the books.

 

[economist]

That Kenneth Lavallee is a jackass. Wonder what he does to a rape victim?

He gets an injunction against them prohibiting sexual activity while conducting an investigation into whether they have ever engaged in prostitution?

 

[01bmf]

"Police are asking for the public's help to prevent guns, including assault rifles, from falling into the hands of criminals."

They were stolen. They are already in the hands of criminals, are they not?

 

[Palladin]

I expect nothing less from the Land of Lowell!!
PR for a sawed off shotgun, a Federal offense, and this poor prick has his LTC grabbed.

 

[DickWanner]

The Glock Box with the holes is a purpose built lockable storage container. I don't think it is all I would use but it should pass as you state it did. I hope they define what this persons vault was constructed of and wether it was just a locked closet. Again it will be great to get some clarity with case history in the books.

There already has been clarity through case laws, what more are you looking for?

 

[red87930]

There already has been clarity through case laws, what more are you looking for?

Dick,

Is a closet a locked container per:

Chapter 140 Section 131L. (a) It shall be unlawful to store or keep any firearm, rifle or shotgun including, but not limited to, large capacity weapons, or machine gun in any place unless such weapon is secured in a locked container or equipped with a tamper-resistant mechanical lock or other safety device, properly engaged so as to render such weapon inoperable by any person other than the owner or other lawfully authorized user. For purposes of this section, such weapon shall not be deemed stored or kept if carried by or under the control of the owner or other lawfully authorized user.

I am a safe guy so I don't care but is has been asked on here pretty regularly and it would be good to know if I ever found myself in an away from home situation that I needed to store the firearm without a safe or trigger lock available.