What is your "Long Range" Rifle Platform?

cathouse01 said:
If you want to see people who get into the weeds, just look at an issue of Very High Power, the magazine for the Fifty Caliber Shooters Association. They get into some math analyzing “yaw drag” and its impact on a bullet’s Ballistic Coefficient that is challenging for a math major. They look at two components for BC. Basic drag along the bullet’s axis when the bullet is pointed directly ahead and there is no wind. And then there is yaw drag caused by the bullet not actually pointing directly into the oncoming air flow due to wind and the bullet not being perfectly balanced along its center line. You can have what they call “Hyper Stabilized” bullets that will minimize yawing and its corresponding yaw drag. This is accomplished with CNC machined, long for caliber monolithic bullets and fast twist rates.

It really is in the weeds, but it does end up with useful info. It turns out that at very short range (300 yards or less), you don't care about yaw drag, or drag at all for that matter. What you want is pure accuracy, which means slow twists and stubby bullets. As you go further out, ballistics starts to matter more, and so drag (and yaw drag) start to matter more. At some point, the accuracy you gained with the slow twist is lost to poor ballistics. At ELR ranges, ballistics utterly dominate, so that's why really fast twists with really long bullets rule the day, and why it doesn't matter if your ELR rifle can shoot 0.25 minute groups. The things you do to get short range benchrest levels of accuracy can be counterproductive for ELR.
Click to expand...
Yup. That's why I asked; what game is this rifle intended for?
 
paul73 said:
why did you ask at all? just get to what you wanted to say, to speed it up.
Click to expand...
I asked because there are differing accuracy "needs" for different shooting competitions. If it's a comp that i participate in, or know something about, I could be of help. If it's not, then I would say so and sit back and try to learn something.
 
PatMcD said:
I asked because there are differing accuracy "needs" for different shooting competitions. If it's a comp that i participate in, or know something about, I could be of help. If it's not, then I would say so and sit back and try to learn something.
Click to expand...
i am always - almost always :) - for a constructive criticism, if it aims to help, but cannot take any more of 'confidence interval' things. :)

i am trying to set it up for an optimal performance in a 100-600yds range. with a potential PRS activity as a 'game'. running a ladder test is a pretty common thing in my opinion, but if there is a better way to get along with it - i am all ears.
it is a new caliber for me, and it has no factory ammo available. next steps?
 
paul73 said:
i am always - almost always :) - for a constructive criticism, if it aims to help, but cannot take any more of 'confidence interval' things. :)

i am trying to set it up for an optimal performance in a 100-600yds range. with a potential PRS activity as a 'game'. running a ladder test is a pretty common thing in my opinion, but if there is a better way to get along with it - i am all ears.
it is a new caliber for me, and it has no factory ammo available. next steps?
Click to expand...

I shoot out to 600 yards almost every weekend at either a Highpower Rifle or prone match of some kind. The unwritten standard for handloads/accuracy is "find a load that shoots MOA, and then load as much of it as you can" because the determining factor in these matches is the trigger puller, not what rifle or what load you use. X-ring is 6", 10-ring is 12", etc. So, a rifle that shoots into 1/4" would be awesome to have, it still will shoot a 7 if that's where the sights are when you pull the trigger.

I do not shoot PRS. how large are those steel targets?
Benchrest or F-class require far more accuracy than I am willing to load for, and that's where a deep dive into accuracy nodes and such things would pay off.
 
PatMcD said:
I shoot out to 600 yards almost every weekend at either a Highpower Rifle or prone match of some kind. The unwritten standard for handloads/accuracy is "find a load that shoots MOA, and then load as much of it as you can" because the determining factor in these matches is the trigger puller, not what rifle or what load you use. X-ring is 6", 10-ring is 12", etc. So, a rifle that shoots into 1/4" would be awesome to have, it still will shoot a 7 if that's where the sights are when you pull the trigger.
Click to expand...
i am willing to explore of how far 6 dasher will take me.
so far my goal is to get a consistent set of hits within a 1" circle at 300yds. if i find a load that does it well, consistently, i will consider that a win.

PRS steel targets from what i recall go in squares from 150mm to 400mm, a circle is 250mm. distances - from 100 to 1200 yds.
 
paul73 said:
but cannot take any more of 'confidence interval' things.
Click to expand...

I believe you are already calculating ES/SD for your ammo. So, you're more or less halfway there.

You are looking at ~1/3 minute accuracy based on the noted one inch diameter plate at 300 yards. For illustrative purposes, what is the probability of being able to hit that if your SD = 30FPS where everything else is perfect (some random load and ballistics at 1800FPS MV for 300 yards)?

Hit Probability Calculator

A free hit probability calculator for long range shooting.
bisonballistics.com bisonballistics.com
1654532624000.png

Shrink that to, say SD=20FPS, then

1654532686210.png

And, SD=8 FPS

1654532796400.png


If you don't care about confidence intervals, then why measure ES/SD? If you are looking for precision, ignoring probability will cause you to chase ghosts while, in reality, a miss may have been simply random chance.
 
vicorjh said:
don't care about confidence intervals, then why measure ES/SD?
Click to expand...
i cannot explain in one sentence how the round development cycle works. sorry.

ok, here:
each individual barrel has its own character and soul, and you proceed with that soul searching journey having bright light shining from your eyes and firm determination in your soul, to conquer the untamed beast and achieve this illusive ES/SD of 6/2 and be forever ecstatic since.

you guys trying to kill me today with your theoreticals. i cannot seriously talk here about spherical horses in vacuum, sorry. i just need to find time to go there and shoot that 80 rounds ladder to find a damn working node, finally.
 
paul73 said:
i cannot explain in one sentence how the round development cycle works. sorry.

ok, here:
each individual barrel has its own character and soul, and you proceed with that soul searching journey having bright light shining from your eyes and firm determination in your soul, to conquer the untamed beast and achieve this illusive ES/SD of 6/2 and be forever ecstatic since.

you guys trying to kill me today with your theoreticals. i cannot seriously talk here about spherical horses in vacuum, sorry. i just need to find time to go there and shoot that 80 rounds ladder to find a damn working node, finally.
Click to expand...

Yep, ok pointless.
 
vicorjh said:
Yep, ok pointless.
Click to expand...
so go ahead and say something that has a point, then. asking me of why measure ES/SD - what was the point of that?

there is nothing probability related nor random when you get progress shown in post 307, look at it. it is not a divine intervention that does it, it is only physics.
 
paul73 said:
so go ahead and say something that has a point, then. asking me of why measure ES/SD - what was the point of that?

there is nothing probability related nor random when you get progress shown in post 307, look at it. it is not a divine intervention that does it, it is only physics.
Click to expand...

No thanks. Laters.
 
Rockrivr1 said:
Thanks for the contribution so far. I've learned a ton and mostly learned that I know nothing about how to achieve accuracy! It was a good run! [wink]
Click to expand...
i am only learning as i go, there are plenty of way more experienced people here, but most have learned to keep their mouth shut.
 
paul73 said:
1654539588615-png.623985
Click to expand...
That's not helium...
 
50wt said:
The goal is to consume the most amount of components in the least amount of time to attain the 1moa target to post up here on NES.
Click to expand...
yep. an 1 moa with an SD of 30.

and anyone who shits on my ES11 SD4 better show his own better data first. i know some who has it, but it is not that many. as it takes certain effort to get there.

SD of 30 my ass. that was an insult.
 
Last edited:
paul73 said:
SD of 30 my ass. that was an insult.
Click to expand...

No, it was part of an example. But, you're so wound up about yourself trying to find something to whine about that it's impossible to have a conversation with you. Your cup is full. Good day.
 
vicorjh said:
No, it was part of an example. But, you're so wound up about yourself trying to find something to whine about that it's impossible to have a conversation with you. Your cup is full. Good day.
Click to expand...
climb off the high horse if you want to talk - if not - gallop along. it is a free world.
i always appreciate good knowledge when it is shared willingly. and have a very slim tolerance for bullshit on mondays. because mondays suck.
 
vicorjh said:
No, it was part of an example. But, you're so wound up about yourself trying to find something to whine about that it's impossible to have a conversation with you. Your cup is full. Good day.
Click to expand...
He isn't whining. He's just having fun working up his rounds and expressing himself on this forum. When you get deep in chasing numbers, it seems like you're chasing your tail sometimes, and he's sharing his journey. I don't see a problem. Even if it's some new obscure, probably ineffective cartridge.

I might find what he is doing a little excessive, for what I do anyways, but I am enjoying his progress. Maybe one day, I will get motivated to do the same.
 

Similar threads

What kind of Beretta 1934 is this?
Replies
3
Views
169
67ray
67ray
Rifle/ Pistol range
2
Replies
58
Views
1K
whacko
whacko
What not to do with your new gun.
2
Replies
42
Views
1K
Coyote33
Coyote33
Can you guys tell me what this is?
Replies
7
Views
508
LittleCalm
L
What are your silliest, most useless firearms.
4 5 6
Replies
177
Views
4K
Marty McFly
Marty McFly
Back
Top Bottom