What is your "Long Range" Rifle Platform?

[PatMcD]

Anybody who has an interest in building their own rig on a chassis system should look into what Eliseo has to offer.
I kind of forgot about it. But I have an R5 in 6BR. 700 action, PacNor barrel.

 

[Broc]

it is this:
View attachment 619044
Amazon product ASIN B01FVOQL84View: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01FVOQL84


it is not a precise science - but a 'safe' warm barrel zone is from 45 to 55 somewhat. or - 113F-131F.
about 55C+ you cannot hold the barrel anymore - so it is considered 'hot'. for an older broken in barrel with at least 500 rounds through it - it would not matter that much, but to get a brand new barrel and shoot 300 rounds through it non stop getting it above 100C - would be rather stupid.

sticker also helps you to see where barrel`s at, as some barrels start to move POI a bit as it gets warmer - my 20" larue is doing it.

I am learning a lot today. I like this.

I might start using it on some rifles.

 

[Broc]

By the way ... I was looking at some of the rifles I bought like 10 years ago and never touched (a bunch of Mauser I shot very little) and noticed my Swedish Mauser had some holes in the receiver I didn't remember.

Well ... I did some Googling and it turns out it might an M41

I will be posting some pics for confirmation from the pros this weekend.

Will be a sweet new "long" range rifle.

 

[Mesatchornug]

I am learning a lot today. I like this.

I might start using it on some rifles.

Same. Never would have thought to instrument the barrel for temperature, but if you're trying to be thorough, that seems like a great way to do it.

For reference, McMaster has similar:

McMaster-Carr

McMaster-Carr is the complete source for your plant with over 595,000 products. 98% of products ordered ship from stock and deliver same or next day.

www.mcmaster.com

 

[AHM]

wait at least 5 minutes between break-in shots" - that is quite a bullshit. or, well, for those who are retired and are on infinite (to them) time - sure, why not.
but it is pointless. you just want barrel warm, but not hot, that is all.

Why is that?

 

[paul73]

Why is that?

why is what? i meant - do not overheat. cold/warm is good for a new one, hot is not. good is good, bad is not.

 

[MaduroBU]

I have a "trash rifle" for practice: a Savage Axis with a 26" Shilen barrel on an MDT LSS with Vortex 6-24x FFP scope in 6.5 Creedmoor. It does about 0.5 MOA with 153 grain Berger Hybrid 153 grain VLDs.

My "real" long range gun is a New Haven Model 70 classic stainless with a Proof 29" barrel, a Williams extractor, DBM bottom metal, a Manners stock and a Leupold 4-24x52 VX6 in .300 WSM. It can push a 225 grain Hornady ELDM at 2730 FPS, which is enough for a mile supersonic (though I only have enough elevation to dial 1600 yards).

Proof Research carbon barrels are amazing....the M70 was a pig with a light Palma Bartlein, even with flutes. Now it handles like my great grandfather's M1894 (well... maybe not that well, but it's very nimble). Any gun with a long barrel benefits a ton from carbon fiber.

 

[MaduroBU]

I know range distances are limited in many areas, but I'm thinking of getting a new long range platform and am starting to look into the different options. I'd like to keep it in 6.5CM for now as I have a bunch of Match ammo in that caliber. From there I'd like to be able to extend out to 1000 plus yards. My gunsmithing skills and tools are limited, but am willing to try putting something together, but am not against a pre-built platform. For this I'm thinking of staying away from a RPR and go for something I can build up for PRS or other specific games were long range is the key.

I know I'll need to spend a good chunk on a scope, but I'll worry about that later once I have the rifle platform settled. Price wise is subjective at this point, but I'm not rich enough to dump $5K into a platform right at the get go.

So what do you have or what would you want if given the chance to buy/build your rifle?

I can give you some specifics about the cheap practice rifle that I built if you like. I've been appalled by how well it shoots vs far more expensive guns.

 

[Rockrivr1]

I can give you some specifics about the cheap practice rifle that I built if you like. I've been appalled by how well it shoots vs far more expensive guns.

Definitely! Always interested in accurate builds that will not break the bank!!!

 

[AHM]

why is what? i meant - do not overheat. cold/warm is good for a new one, hot is not. good is good, bad is not.

Why is hot extra-bad for a new barrel?

 

[paul73]

Why is hot extra-bad for a new barrel?

Same as why you have a break in period on a brand new engine before starting redlining it for fun.
You need to give steel time to settle for temperature and pressure. There are people who take break in barrels topic way more serious than I do - I only try not to overheat it much first 2-3 sessions I shoot it. YMMV.

 

[AHM]

Same as why you have a break in period on a brand new engine before starting redlining it for fun.
You need to give steel time to settle for temperature and pressure.

Barrel break-in smooths imperfections in the throat and bore.
(At some cost of also wearing the parts of the barrel that were already smooth).
But that's not some magical annealing process
that needs finer temperature control than normal use of the gun.

If there is some post-purchase heat treatment that occurs in the barrel,
I'd like to see where some metallurgist explains it.

 

[Rate_of_Twist]

Same as why you have a break in period on a brand new engine before starting redlining it for fun.
You need to give steel time to settle for temperature and pressure. There are people who take break in barrels topic way more serious than I do - I only try not to overheat it much first 2-3 sessions I shoot it. YMMV.

Would really love to see some actual evidence of these things - lots of gun industry voodoo and old timer speak like this isnt really applicable to modern manufacturing. Hell some of it never actually worked and is just fiddling with things for the sake of it. If I had to guess, if you buy a quality barrel from any number of shops out there, there is very very little to no need to do much special to it let alone watch temps.

Plenty of real good shooters on other sites spin on a new barrel, shoot the crap out of it with amazing accuracy and then spin it off when its toast. No need to make sweet love to it and check the barrel temp rectally every three minutes...

 

[paul73]

Plenty of real good shooters on other sites spin on a new barrel, shoot the crap out of it with amazing accuracy and then spin it off when its toast. No need to make sweet love to it and check the barrel temp rectally every three minutes...

if you treat it as a consumable - then it makes sense. my take is that truth is probably somewhere in between, as usual. if you express some moderation first 2-3 sessions it is not the end of the world, i would think.
or you can get a 1000 rounds and do what the video above shows, it is also an option.

 

[Rate_of_Twist]

if you treat it as a consumable - then it makes sense. my take is that truth is probably somewhere in between, as usual. if you express some moderation first 2-3 sessions it is not the end of the world, i would think.
or you can get a 1000 rounds and do what the video above shows, it is also an option.

I guess hard to disagree with that since I view a barrel as a consumable. 6mm creedmoor is 1500 rounds at best, so it is what it is. $450, spin a new one on and off I go. the $450 for the barrel is a fraction of ammo cost, so no big deal. No difference that tires on a track car, you bought them to do one thing well - full send and replace when toast

 

[LuvDog]

I tend to try and take it easy breaking in a barrel too. and not let it overheat. Heck, just for the fact that overheating it also causes impact to shift, and if I'm breaking in a barrel, I'm also sighting it in.

I agree its a consumable... but much like tires on a race car are a consumable, you warm up your tires before you got WOT... otherwise you'll end up off the track

 

[Broc]

I guess hard to disagree with that since I view a barrel as a consumable. 6mm creedmoor is 1500 rounds at best, so it is what it is. $450, spin a new one on and off I go. the $450 for the barrel is a fraction of ammo cost, so no big deal. No difference that tires on a track car, you bought them to do one thing well - full send and replace when toast

So, are you guys saying that if someone doesn't allow the barrel to get too hot the first 3 sessions, that it will last more than 1500 rounds?

I am trying to wrap my head around this.

 

[Rate_of_Twist]

So, are you guys saying that if someone doesn't allow the barrel to get too hot the first 3 sessions, that it will last more than 1500 rounds?

I am trying to wrap my head around this.

I don’t think heat means much personally, but that’s just me.

I follow this: Barrel Break-In

 

[paul73]

I don’t think heat means much personally, but that’s just me.

I follow this: Barrel Break-In

1. Load 1 round and fire it into the impact mound.
2. Repeat steps 1-2 for five (5) rounds.

just think of it - it is actually important to clear the bore after the FIRST shot, if it dislodged any material from rifling or walls - if it was never fired before. as it if did - second shot will scrape it.
what the hell good a 3 times repeated cycle of '5 rounds - clean' will do? why?

also, on most barrels i dealt with - after first shot, and then after 5 shots the third patch comes out perfectly clean. dunno what is it they shoot there to take 10 patches to clean it up.

 

[Rate_of_Twist]

1. Load 1 round and fire it into the impact mound.
2. Repeat steps 1-2 for five (5) rounds.

just think of it - it is actually important to clear the bore after the FIRST shot, if it dislodged any material from rifling or walls - if it was never fired before. as it if did - second shot will scrape it.
what the hell good a 3 times repeated cycle of '5 rounds - clean' will do? why?

also, on most barrels i dealt with - after first shot, and then after 5 shots the third patch comes out perfectly clean. dunno what is it they shoot there to take 10 patches to clean it up.

Huh? No sure what you’re saying, but it doesn’t seem like you read the whole thing.

Either way, not saying this is gospel, this guy makes great barrels that shoot lights out and this is a pretty simple method

 

[paul73]

Huh?

did you read that you follow?

 

[Rate_of_Twist]

did you read that you follow?

Upon opening the box and confirming that the Included Items are all present owners should put a loose, lightly oiled patch through the bore from breech to muzzle twice. Use a fresh patch each time.

1. Be sure that the bore is free from any/all obstructions.
2. Load 1 round and fire it into the impact mound.
3. Repeat steps 1-2 for five (5) rounds.
4. Using BoreTech Eliminator™ bore solvent clean the bore of the rifle with wet patches until it comes out clean. Lay out the patches in order of use in order to get a visual line-up of the dirty patches coming out of the bore.
5. Repeat Steps 1-4 two (2) times so that a total of 15 rounds have been fired and the bore has been cleaned three (3) times.

Not sure what you’re saying, but yours doesn’t line up

 

[bigblue]

I’d follow step zero and go from there. All indications I have read from bbl makers is that increased cleaning contributes more to bbl wear than it does to accuracy.

 

[LuvDog]

I’d follow step zero and go from there. All indications I have read from bbl makers is that increased cleaning contributes more to bbl wear than it does to accuracy.

I do a bit more cleaning and oiling when brand spanking new, just to make sure any debris from manufacturing isn't there, but then after that I agree that conservative cleaning is actually better for accuracy and longevity.

 

[40 Creedmoor fan]

a lot of talk about barrel break-in is such hogwash... The VAST majority of the "break-in procedures" are based on anecdotal evidence at best and musings of shooters who like to write books and articles.

The only thing worth considering breaking in a barrel is manufacturing debris.
If the barrel is hammer-forged, European-style, over a mandrel, the process produces NO debris. You can start shooting the barrel immediately.
If the barrel rifling is cut using broaches, it's possible some debris got pressed into the barrel as the broach is pulled through. Loose debris is washed out with cooling liquid during the cutting procedure. The pressed debris can be loosened by cleaning brushes. soaked patches won't loosen that kind of pressed-in debris. When dealing with this type of barrel, use a wire brush before the first shot and then after every shot or two for the first 10 shots. That should be plenty to dislodge any pressed-in debris.

I would avoid liquids in the barrel for a simple reason: liquids burn. This is why the first shot is usually "odd": the burning of solvents in the barrel adds to the conflagration from powder burning. Cold barrel is a myth! It's just solvents burning in addition to gun powder. If you don't put any liquids in the barrel and just use wire brushes(those are optional after the initial break-in) you won't have any "cold barrel" effects. Of course, if you have OCD and you must clean your barrel every time, go for it! Just be aware of the effects.

 

[paul73]

only thing worth considering breaking in a barrel is manufacturing debris.

which i kinda tried to state - the initial oiling, then a cleanup after the very first shot counts. then a cleanup after next 5 shots.
after that i would presume that all that could have been torn off from rifling edges was torn off already.

 

[40 Creedmoor fan]

which i kinda tried to state - the initial oiling, then a cleanup after the very first shot counts. then a cleanup after next 5 shots.
after that i would presume that all that could have been torn off from rifling edges was torn off already.

Good point on the initial cleaning of the barrel before the 1st shot. When cutting barrels, cooling liquids are used. these liquids have various formulations. some of them contain paraffin which can get stuck to metal surfaces and help metal shavings adhere to the barrel. Also, some manufacturers will use protective liquids to protect barrels from rust(why would stainless steel rust is beyond me)

 

[Mesatchornug]

why would stainless steel rust is beyond me

Because it's stain-less. Not stain-proof...

 

[40 Creedmoor fan]

Because it's stain-less. Not stain-proof...

great. Is that 410R barrel steel? Is your barrel exposed to water for years?

No offense but you're showing a picture of low cost water piping from China or something. How do you know it's stainless?

 

[Mesatchornug]

great. Is that 410R barrel steel? Is your barrel exposed to water for years?

No offense but you're showing a picture of low cost water piping from China or something. How do you know it's stainless?

Sorry I didn't take pictures of the rust on my stainless barrel for you. I can take one of my silverware, if you'd like. The simple reality is that stainless does rust. Especially in contract with other metals. It's just better than carbon steel.