Vietnam

[M60]

Sorry didn't include this in the original post. You can go to the New World Hotel casino. Small compared to US casinos, but they say it's OK. If you get bored there, can go next door to the Cat Walk (hostess bar, very $$$.) Cost about $50 USD for a drink and tip to waitress. If you are looking for souvenirs to bring back, can go to Saigon Square. If the weather is nice there are a bunch of rooftop bars to have a drink at or can walk over to back packer district to watch people. Cheap beer and food in that area.

$50.00 for a drink in Nam! That better come with 3 ladies to take turns holding the glass.

 

[LLF]

Datsun was owned by Nissan.
They were afraid the US would not
like their cars and didn’t want to tarnish
there good name around the world. So they
marketed their cars under a different name. Datsun.

Then along came Mitsubishi. Some ad man once suggested their slogan should be "From those wonderful folks who brought you Pearl Harbor".
To this day I refuse to buy a Japanese car.

 

[ReluctantDecoy]

There are so many beautiful places in the world and you pick that shit hole for a vacation?

Different, yes. Shit hole? That's a bit harsh. Maybe some like a little displacement instead of going to Club Med or Disney for an Instagram photo shoot. Some of the beaches are just as nice as well, plus a dollar stretches much further.

OP: It is a wild adventure. Keep an eye out for AK culture around town and in the Reunification Palace Museum.

 

[Yazz]

I'm not allowed to visit Vietnam. too beaucoup

Taiwan would be good for you!
LOL

 

[M60]

When Charlie spends his days, trying to ruin your days and that's all that Vietnam has shown you, trust me, it's a shit hole. Nothing a bit harsh about my assessment and I didn't reference Club Med, or Disney, as you suggested. Whatever you think is so great about that shit hole, there is much better elsewhere. One thing is for sure, no travel agent puts his/her best foot forward by suggesting vietnam as a top rated vacation destination.

 

[doxdsgn]

$50.00 for a drink in Nam! That better come with 3 ladies to take turns holding the glass.

Hot tok (“hair salon”) workers maybe can get the attention of three for $50. At the CatWalk, these are attractive, well trained hostesses. Closest description might be geishas.

 

[NHKevin]

Different, yes. Shit hole? That's a bit harsh. Maybe some like a little displacement instead of going to Club Med or Disney for an Instagram photo shoot. Some of the beaches are just as nice as well, plus a dollar stretches much further.

OP: It is a wild adventure. Keep an eye out for AK culture around town and in the Reunification Palace Museum.

View attachment 299864 View attachment 299865

You are seriously trying to justify Viet Nam as a viable vacation spot to someone that saw combat there? I wouldn't rule out going myself, but I never took incoming fire there - before my time.

 

[doxdsgn]

Have run into several former in country ex military going back to Vietnam. If they want to tell me about their experience OK, if not OK to.

 

[Navy Moose]

Taiwan is a wonderful place to visit. I spent three weeks there right after college. What struck me the most, was how pro-American the Taiwanese are. The pollution was terrible in the major cities. In the countryside, it was heaven on earth.

 

[Navy Moose]

Have run into several former in country ex military going back to Vietnam. If they want to tell me about their experience OK, if not OK to.

My first trip I ran into a group of former Marines who were holding a reunion in Hue. We are all near the Citadel, I didn't talk to them, I didn't want to interrupt their reunion. There is a small restaurant owned by a former SVAF firefighter I visited several times. I wore my U.S. Navy ballcap the first time and he told me he was stationed at Phu Bai AB. I met a few ex-pats who live in Hue, several served there.

 

[ReluctantDecoy]

You are seriously trying to justify Viet Nam as a viable vacation spot to someone that saw combat there? I wouldn't rule out going myself, but I never took incoming fire there - before my time.

I'm not trying to justify anything other than saying Vietnam is not a "shit hole". At least not as it exists today. His initial response was just that statement. Said nothing about him fighting during the war. That came in a later post. I was only replying to his first post.

And I get it. If I were getting shot at in a jungle fighting in a war, I guess I'd feel some of the same thoughts about returning. But that version of the country and that war was a long time ago. That's not what Vietnam is like today. So I'm not belittling M60's experience. Only he knew what that was like, and I'm sure it was hell. I'm only saying that Vietnam and today's Vietnam are two different things.

 

[M60]

I'm not trying to justify anything other than saying Vietnam is not a "shit hole". At least not as it exists today. His initial response was just that statement. Said nothing about him fighting during the war. That came in a later post. I was only replying to his first post.

And I get it. If I were getting shot at in a jungle fighting in a war, I guess I'd feel some of the same thoughts about returning. But that version of the country and that war was a long time ago. That's not what Vietnam is like today. So I'm not belittling M60's experience. Only he knew what that was like, and I'm sure it was hell. I'm only saying that Vietnam and today's Vietnam are two different things.

Most of the area that I knew as home in Vietnam, "as it exists today", is still so much of a shit hole, that tourists aren't suppose to visit /see the areas. To much ordinance still active there. Go ahead and visit my Vietnam. Sneak into my area while you are there, look around and see for yourself, that it is still there, as it was. You'll see for yourself and you'll agree that it's still the shit hole that it was when I was there. When you get home, if you get home, I'll buy you a drink and we can toast my Vietnam. It's still a shit hole. You really should know Vietnam, all of Vietnam, not just a small piece of it, first hand, before considering yourself qualified to advise people what it is, or is not. Talk to some of the ex pats while you are there and tell them you'd like to see my area of Vietnam, then be sure to follow their advise. I'll be happy to give you more details on the area for you to discuss with them. They are going to tell you to stay away.

 

[ReluctantDecoy]

Most of the area that I knew as home in Vietnam, "as it exists today", is still so much of a shit hole, that tourists aren't suppose to visit /see the areas. To much ordinance still active there. Go ahead and visit my Vietnam. Sneak into my area while you are there, look around and see for yourself, that it is still there, as it was. You'll see for yourself and you'll agree that it's still the shit hole that it was when I was there. When you get home, if you get home, I'll buy you a drink and we can toast my Vietnam. It's still a shit hole. You really should know Vietnam, all of Vietnam, not just a small piece of it, first hand, before considering yourself qualified to advise people what it is, or is not. Talk to some of the ex pats while you are there and tell them you'd like to see my area of Vietnam, then be sure to follow their advise. I'll be happy to give you more details on the area for you to discuss with them. They are going to tell you to stay away.

You assume I've never been to those parts, but I have. My ex's family live there still. There are still areas that are fenced off due to UXO's. Also saw lots of relics of war that were on display like this torture device (like below). They aren't trying to hide these things though. More of a "look at what we were once" type of deal.



It must have been hell, and again, I'm not trying to disrespect you or your experience. Just saying that even with all of that bad history, those "shit hole" areas are actually quite nice given the decades of healing, provided you aren't stepping on an UXO. Much of it is still third world, but there's something to be said about the quaint rural areas as opposed to the tourist traps.

 

[M60]

My first trip I ran into a group of former Marines who were holding a reunion in Hue. We are all near the Citadel, I didn't talk to them, I didn't want to interrupt their reunion. There is a small restaurant owned by a former SVAF firefighter I visited several times. I wore my U.S. Navy ballcap the first time and he told me he was stationed at Phu Bai AB. I met a few ex-pats who live in Hue, several served there.

You assume I've never been to those parts, but I have. My ex's family live there still. There are still areas that are fenced off due to UXO's. Also saw lots of relics of war that were on display like this torture device (like below). They aren't trying to hide these things though. More of a "look at what we were once" type of deal.

View attachment 300013

It must have been hell, and again, I'm not trying to disrespect you or your experience. Just saying that even with all of that bad history, those "shit hole" areas are actually quite nice given the decades of healing, provided you aren't stepping on an UXO. Much of it is still third world, but there's something to be said about the quaint rural areas as opposed to the tourist traps.

No disrespect taken. I'm just not sure that you've been to the DMZ. Lots of ordinance and booby traps, still undiscovered yet and still buried. It wouldn't be fun to be the one to discover them. If you have been to the DMZ, you already know that the area is unlikeable. That's why no one lived there, even before we got there.

 

[ridleyman]

I just got back last night from my trip. It was great. The food, sights and people were great. The beer from the region isn't so wonderful, however, as Tiger, 333, Saigon, and others aren't much better than cheap stuff here. Huda, from Hue, on the other hand, was quite tasty and had good body. Unfortunately, I couldn't get it anywhere else in country. Larue, from Danang was okay.

The people there are very friendly and welcoming, and even though I stayed in some places there that I wouldn't go near here would they be in a US city, I felt perfectly safe all the time. In fact, I was exchanging money in a bank once and an employee came out from behind the cage and dumped and stacked over $1 billion VD ($500,000 American) less than 10 feet from me on the floor. No guards, no guns, no cops. There is some crime, I understand, but not much.

Except for the humidity, and the peril of crossing the streets (and even dodging motor bikes on the sidewalk!), I loved it and strongly recommend visiting there. I stayed in nice and clean, yet not luxurious at all, places for less than $15/night. Many places are run by families and I felt very welcomed and included in daily life there. And I never got sick from the food.

In Hue I spent a day in the Imperial Palace and various tombs and pagodas in the area. A guide pointed out where the marine base was near the Ming Mang tomb outside of Hue. He described learning English as a little boy from some very kind US Marines. Apparently, it's a stone's throw from Laos. Btw, people in Vietnam don't like the Chinese so much, they trash talked them constantly, but they love the Americans! Marble Mountain in Danang, a Buddhist series of caves and temples built into the limestone hills, was stunning.

Please feel free to, on this thread or PM, contact me anytime and I'll be more than happy to recommend specific places to go and people to see.

 

[Darksideblues42]

I just got back last night from my trip. It was great. The food, sights and people were great. The beer from the region isn't so wonderful, however, as Tiger, 333, Saigon, and others aren't much better than cheap stuff here. Huda, from Hue, on the other hand, was quite tasty and had good body. Unfortunately, I couldn't get it anywhere else in country. Larue, from Danang was okay.

The people there are very friendly and welcoming, and even though I stayed in some places there that I wouldn't go near here would they be in a US city, I felt perfectly safe all the time. In fact, I was exchanging money in a bank once and an employee came out from behind the cage and dumped and stacked over $1 billion VD ($500,000 American) less than 10 feet from me on the floor. No guards, no guns, no cops. There is some crime, I understand, but not much.

Except for the humidity, and the peril of crossing the streets (and even dodging motor bikes on the sidewalk!), I loved it and strongly recommend visiting there. I stayed in nice and clean, yet not luxurious at all, places for less than $15/night. Many places are run by families and I felt very welcomed and included in daily life there. And I never got sick from the food.

In Hue I spent a day in the Imperial Palace and various tombs and pagodas in the area. A guide pointed out where the marine base was near the Ming Mang tomb outside of Hue. He described learning English as a little boy from some very kind US Marines. Apparently, it's a stone's throw from Laos. Btw, people in Vietnam don't like the Chinese so much, they trash talked them constantly, but they love the Americans! Marble Mountain in Danang, a Buddhist series of caves and temples built into the limestone hills, was stunning.

Please feel free to, on this thread or PM, contact me anytime and I'll be more than happy to recommend specific places to go and people to see.

Did you grab some Pho Tai or Bahn Mi from a street cart?

 

[teaser452]

Geez Rob, I didn't think any knowledgeable person thought we were defeated in Vietnam. I was part of the Third Marine Division, in the northern most part of South Vietnam, when .gov pulled us out of Vietnam, so I know a bit about that time and place in history. The Vietnam conflict (we never declared war), was not popular with the American voter. Every American mother wanted their sons and daughters to be returned home. Presidents like to cater to voters and to be popular. To that end, the U. S. completed removal of the last of our troops from Vietnam in 1975. I'll tell you two things about that first hand. First, the troops didn't want to leave Vietnam without final and complete victory. Part way through my first tour of duty, I signed up for a second, back to back tour of duty in Vietnam. I still have a copy of the paperwork that I signed, to substantiate what I've just said. I wanted to be there. While I was there we won every battle, skirmish and fire fight that we were in. Every one of them, so it's very hard to sell the we lost concept to me, or the rest of Third Marine Division that was there. Last, Ho Chi Minh blew his load on the 1968 TET offensive. He sent 60,000, well trained, well outfitted and well armed NVA troops down the Ho Chi Minh Trail to destroy South Vietnam. The first line of defense, for South Vietnam, at that time, was the Third Marine Division, that was deployed along and around the DMZ. The Third Marine Division killed approximately half of Ho Chi Minh's 60,000 TET troops right there on and around the DMZ. That's a kill ratio of 10 to 1, for you NES numbers crunchers. It was later written that the initial battles took such a toll on the NVA, that ultimately, the TET offensive was a failure, for North Vietnam. The NVA never regained its former effectiveness, and for the most part, the conflict was over for them, long term. This is what was later written, by the North Vietnamese General in charge of Ho Cho Minh's TET Offensive.Then by popular demand, the POTUS ordered the removal of all U.S. troops from South Vietnam. Summary, never tell a member of the Third Marine Division, that was there, and lived through it and saw first hand what took place, that we were defeated, because that's pure bullshit.

The TET offensive will go down in history as one of the greatest military defeats in the known history of the world. And it wasn’t us getting defeated.

Although, if you were watching the media broadcasts you would have thought we were getting our asses kicked.

I wasn’t born til ‘74, but during the second gulf war, the media was at it again. Saying that our military was ‘bogged down’ outside of Baghdad. And that the situation in the ground was a ‘morass’ and the media just loved Baghdad “they’ll never take the airport” Bob. Despite American tanks in the background, on the strip.

We won Vietnam. Our politicians and the corrupt media lost it. The media is worse, if that’s possible, today.

 

[teaser452]

One thing I find interesting about this thread and Vietnam vets in general. So many here and ones I know in real life have been back to Vietnam. And they all say the same thing. Great people.

I know a ton of Afghan and Iraq vets. Not one of them has ever even whispered the idea of going back for vacation.

That’s says a lot about the people of Vietnam. And about the people in Iraq and Afghanistan.

 

[ridleyman]

Did you grab some Pho Tai or Bahn Mi from a street cart?

I ate so much pho and banh mi, much of it street food, and I drank way too much beer! Now I have to face real life again, alas!

 

[Deleted member 67409]

One thing I find interesting about this thread and Vietnam vets in general. So many here and ones I know in real life have been back to Vietnam. And they all say the same thing. Great people.

I know a ton of Afghan and Iraq vets. Not one of them has ever even whispered the idea of going back for vacation.

That’s says a lot about the people of Vietnam. And about the people in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Tet was 51 years ago. "Going back" wasn't an option until the 90s, so around 20-30 years after the war. Maybe some Iraq/Afghan vets will go back once they have grey or white hair. Or no hair.

Its going to depend on how Iraq and Afghanistan turn out over the next decade or two. As Iraq sits on a lake of black gold, it has the possibility of getting its shit together and stabilizing. Iraq would honestly make a nice tourist destination: 6000 years of civilization, the Tigris and Euphrates, desert, mountains, and a decent infrastructure (well, I know they had highways and airports, not sure how those are doing currently). Do I think Iraq is going to have a fully-functioning republic with representative democracy? No, but if you get someone in control over there who runs it well and without too much visible brutality (like the Vietnamese communists run Vietnam), it'd be stable enough to visit.

I don't think Afghanistan is going to change though. Its always been an insular, intentionally-isolated place. Which is a shame because it has a wealth of relatively-unknown history, like Bactria. You might be able to fly into Baghdad or Basra one day on a commercial airline. Kabul or Herat? No.

I wonder if the French ever return to Vietnam.

 

[Rat187]

if you get someone in control over there who runs it well and without too much visible brutality (like the Vietnamese communists run Vietnam), it'd be stable enough to visit.

It's the unacknowledged invisible brutality: death camps that still ran 20 years after the war where millions of ARVN, Viet Minh, and Catholics perished with communist revolutionary efficiency & zeal....FU communists

I wonder if the French ever return to Vietnam ?

As tourists, yes

 

[Rat187]

We All Gave A Shit....

a letter written to me @ 1991 and reposted to our website

Dear Bob:

I read with interest your letter to the editor and account of the action your unit was involved in near Bien Hoa. I became quite emotionally affected, as I was caught up in that same action - and your account brought back some memories long ago buried in my mind. Suppose it would be best if I could share with you my recollections of that fateful day. You are the first person, other than my crew, that I’ve found who was there and had some idea of the events that day. Possibly I should start by telling you how and why our fire team became involved in your unit’s "ballgame."

I was Razorback 33 and was flying with Razorback 3_? (Al Cornell) leading a light fire team working alone in the pineapple fields, just west of Saigon (DUC HOA or MUC HOA area). We had made a few attacks on bunkers when we received a call from a USAF FAC flying an 01 Birddog over your area of operations. He told us that the operation was in trouble - he spotted our smoke/explosions - and requested our assistance to help in a re-supply effort. We immediately broke off and headed for your area at top speed, following his directions - soon seeing smoke rising from your LZ and surrounding paddies. Upon over flying your LZ and adjacent rice paddies, we saw a number of burning helicopters, 5 or 7, it’s difficult to remember. I do remember telling the team that "those guys must have been ambushed." I thought of command detonated mines or artillery rounds in the LZ, something such as that. Upon arriving, the FAX was telling a TOP TIGER ship to wait for my team, as we would accompany him in to re-supply. My plan was to suppress the dike area boundary to the east of the LZ, as it was heavily vegetated, or hit wherever we drew fire on approach. The TOP TIGER ship set up a left base into the rice paddy, landing to the north - without waiting for my team to join up on him. We, the FAC and me, hollowed for him to stop - not go in - yet he continued! Just as he approached the ground, centered in the paddy, he was hit and the ship rolled over. I couldn’t tell if he was hit by a mine or went over as the result of other fire. One thing stuck in my mind - no one was getting out - I saw no one crawl out of the wreckage and no one went in after them. The aircraft was not on fire, so I wanted to get them out of the wreckage - before it burned. We told our wing ship to cover us, we were going in to get them out - granted in hindsight, not very smart - yet we didn’t want them to burn.

We went in, took a close look at the TOP TIGER bird, saw the infantry troopers flat on their stomachs across the area, some pointing to the east dike. As we took this in, our ship took hits, my starboard pod of 24 rockets (we had a "HOG") was set ablaze and my starboard door gunner took a round through his neck - sending him through the air and almost out the left side. A round had also hit the oil reservoir, as you may remember it was positioned just aft of the firewall and on the right side of the engine. The pressure reservoir split open with a resultant immediate loss of oil pressure. I could see we were next in order of burning ships, and our concern shifted from the TOP TIGER bird to our door gunner. I didn’t know what his condition was, but he was alive and knew we had only seconds left to get him out. Full power/pitch was pulled as we pointed our bird straight for the line of black pajama clad VC lined across the dike firing at will at us some 25 yards away.

The rockets wouldn’t fire, so I raked my hand across the center console to hit the toggle switch, safety wired off, to activate the explosive bolts mounting the rocket pods to the aircraft. They did blow the pods broke off as we climbed out and over the VC. To this day, I don’t know if or how many of the bastards we took with us - I can only hope all was not in vain in that some of them bought it! We turned back west, along the waterway just North of the LZ and made it about two clicks before going in, no further damage to our ship, but our engine was gone - (that engine will run for a short while without oil!) and we wanted our wingman to get our door gunner to the hospital ASAP.

Well, that’s what I saw of that day - the General officer - a BG landed at our ship to see how we made out - then took off to go back and orbit over the area where he then took fire and was hit, along with his aide, the same two you wrote about. That wasn’t very smart of him as well. Shortly after, I went to your base at Tay Ninh. It was there where I bought your officers club a round of drinks after entering covered. I couldn’t tell it was a club! It was also there where I learned from your pilots some more of the story. I was told that the Command and Control had not allowed your guns to hit the area prior to assault - supposedly there were no "enemy" and the LZ was cold. As usual, I was told that the "counterpart" wouldn’t approve suppression of the LZ. Again, if factual - dumb as dirt! How many times has that occurred? I’ve often wondered how many were killed needlessly in the action of that day. I learned a lesson I never forgot on that one - thereafter and on the following tour in Viet Nam as a gun driver, C&C and as the Commander of the 162d Assault Helicopter Company, I never bought that line of bull - always, always, always shot up everything in sight on our assaults - Vietnamese like it or not!! One thing for sure - never an ambush, no burning helicopters in the LZ!

Well, I’ve said a little - "coming out of the closet", I suppose as the result of your writing. Also please don’t construe my commends to cast a negative light on the efforts of the TOP TIGER aircraft commander, whoever he was, as I hold all my comrades in highest esteem. Just another case of "maybe it didn’t have to happen that way". Why he didn’t wait will only be known to him and God. So much has been held up inside of me these past 20 years. I’m sure you understand……

Sincerely,

Ken

Bumping this on the anniversary of this Aug 7, 1967 Rat Eff....Looks like all our company's got deleted for 67-68 in the last few years. What a loss Tequila and Brats...lol