oregon militia seizes building

The problem is both sides are not being honest. That's about the only truth we can garner out of all this. While you're busy misquoting me, note that I said I didn't really have a good reason not be believe they're just redneck shit starters. In other words, maybe the are maybe they aren't. I'm not there on the ground and I'm not taking either side's narrative as gospel truth.

All that aside, I know which side I'm more likely to be sympathetic to and it ain't Uncle Sam and his goons. Yet still, I'm not sold, not by a long shot, on the shit the Bundy's and Hammond's are selling.

I wasn't trying to quote you directly. It's a 300+ post thread, things just roll around in my head.

Furthermore, I'm fully behind the Hammonds. It's the Bundy's that I don't trust and quite frankly believe them to be government snitches and provocateurs
 
Mike Vanderboegh seems to be the most repeated elder of the Militia movement.

He , and all 3% spokesmen, see to believe this is a federal set up mixed with LDS extremism of the Bundies.

But he is both warning , and , calling for localized violence of independent militias if the Feds kill these people.

Google : no more Free Wacos.

Was doing some reading today - and it looks like Vanderboegh's take on what is going on - is shared by other people:

https://disqus.com/by/subotaibahadur/

1) the Hammond family has disavowed any connection with those seizing the building.
2) in my post yesterday about the Hammond ranch incident, I noted that some of those present were the same ones who were apparently government provocateurs at the Bundy Ranch.
3) that identity has been confirmed.
4) there are reports that they are bringing children into the building. I know people who have been involved in defending ranches/ranchers. I know the parameters that they operate under. There is no way that children would be brought into such a situation. It would not be done. If true, this confirms my suspicion that this is a false flag by the government, and that they want another Waco.

Never underestimate the evil of the enemy, nor forget it.

In reference to this case, I have some information that needs to get out. This morning I was at a breakfast meeting that includes members of the Colorado Oathkeepers who have successfully responded to defend ranches from Federal attack in the past. The facts of the Hammond case are as stated. And there are people gathering at the Hammond ranch. HOWEVER, the Hammond family has announced that they DO NOT want a standoff or any efforts to defend them. They have apparently chosen to trust the courts.

Stewart Rhodes, head of Oathkeepers, has told them to stand down as they are not wanted and the Oathkeepers are NOT there. As have most reputable Constitutional Conservatives. There ARE people there who claim all sorts of backgrounds and memberships in various militia groups, however their history is such to indicate that they may be working for the government. If something starts there, I am assuming it is a false flag event until proved otherwise.

Subotai Bahadur


Based on all the stuff I've been reading - and also based on the fact that these "events" (you know - random shootings at schools - or at Christmas parties - and "white militia" events) - all seem to very "coincidentally" happen right when the political left is gearing up for more gun control .................

I'm raising my false flag until events prove otherwise.
 
how are you getting internet service out there at that federal building with the bundy's to be posting on NES still????

oh thats right, your not there... your on the internet.

Shut up with that shit. Neither are you, neither am I, neither is ANYONE in this thread. Grow up and get over it and maybe add something productive to the conversation before the mods lock the thread because you all are too busy measuring each other's cocks
 
Shut up with that shit. Neither are you, neither am I, neither is ANYONE in this thread. Grow up and get over it and maybe add something productive to the conversation before the mods lock the thread because you all are too busy measuring each other's cocks

Im in the basement of the building using my ipone to get on the internet, its very peaceful in here, lots of singing of campfire songs and dancing, people hugging and wearing obama stickers...oh wait Im at the cambridge T Station, never mind, my bad
 
If these guys have anywhere near the numbers they claim to have, there's no way the .gov can go full Waco on them. The odds of all 150 guys being in that tiny building are somewhere around 0. That means there are a bunch of guys on their team *somewhere else*. Who wants to be first through the door of a building supported by overwatch?

I also think these guys are just using the Hammond deadline as a rallying point. Their agenda is bigger than just the Bundys or the Hammonds. So the Hammonds distancing themselves is a matter of self preservation and shouldn't detract from their mission (although the media is certainly playing it that way).

- - - Updated - - -

<snip>

Based on all the stuff I've been reading - and also based on the fact that these "events" (you know - random shootings at schools - or at Christmas parties - and "white militia" events) - all seem to very "coincidentally" happen right when the political left is gearing up for more gun control .................

I'm raising my false flag until events prove otherwise.

Not trying to be argumentative, but when was the last time the left wasn't gearing up for more gun control?
 
That's what passes for news at the NYT these days? The author could have turn d that into something really interesting and insightful with a little work. Pathetic.

Seriously. Since when is journalism just copying and pasting random tweets? Then of course there are the myriad factual inaccuracies or at least historical understatements. I guess maybe Randy Weaver was a dangerous mixture of white and separatist.
 
I also think these guys are just using the Hammond deadline as a rallying point. Their agenda is bigger than just the Bundys or the Hammonds. So the Hammonds distancing themselves is a matter of self preservation and shouldn't detract from their mission (although the media is certainly playing it that way).

The Bundy's are the ones who orchestrated this cluster eff
 
That's what passes for news at the NYT these days? The author could have turn d that into something really interesting and insightful with a little work. Pathetic.

-what that article fails to mention is that anytime a white person opens there mouth, they're considered racist. i laugh when i see that black lives matter shit. all lives matter. what makes a black life worth anymore than a white life or vice versa. there's still a projected white guilt onto every white person such that you could be talking about tires and because they have a white sidewall, you're racist.

-going back to the above dick measuring contest, the hammond's arent involved in the "stand off." they are or will be reporting to serve their sentences.

-the BLM seems corrupt as sh1t

-and finally, if the back story is indeed true, the BLM is corrupt as sh1t. oops already said that. I can understand the Bundys' disdain for them. i have a guess how the story will end but i hope the BLM gets what's coming to them
 
True. Kind of reminds of of the Carl Drega stuff. Gov't pushed and pushed and pushed until the dude snapped and went ape shit on everyone. Seems like the local gov't nitwits actually enjoyed ****ing with the guy and giving him a hard time. They weren't laughing for long. On the other hand, Carl was a bit off the reservation.

Some people just want to be LEFT ALONE.

Yeah - maybe they're a bit whacked - but so what, all they're really asking for is to make their way in life the way they want to - and not be screwed with. I've known a few people like this over the course of my life - and while they may be a bit whacked - they are also pretty much harmless if you just leave them the **** alone.

But we also have a government - that is largely filled up with people who just simply CANNOT leave people alone. It's filled with people whose mentality is filled up with thoughts about how they're so great and helping all of us - because they're out there screwing with people.

It's not just the police that are like this - it's a good part of the bureaucracy that is filled with these people too. They're also bullies - and bullies - like attack dogs who see somebody running - can't stop themselves when they come across certain types of people.

Many of these "I just want to be left alone" types - seem to trigger the bully/ahole types that make up a good part of our government.

That's how you end up with Carl Drega type situations.

One of the better accounts I read about the Carl Drega situation - was by Vin Suprynowicz - who I mentioned here before:

http://www.backwoodshome.com/the-ballad-of-carl-drega/

The Ballad of Carl Drega is a great book for a cold winter’s day because what you read will set your blood to boiling. It is a volume every soccer mom, environmentalist, feel-good, knee-jerk do-gooder and politician should study because it will open their eyes to the reality of what fifty-plus years of socialist intervention and government expansion have done to this once proud land and the values for which it once stood.

You will read about Dr. Steven M. Beresford’s landmark lawsuit against the IRS and about how environmentalists use the power of government to force farmers and ranchers off their land.

You’ll learn how Sandra Dykes’ children were taken away from her after she resisted the advances of a male social worker.

You’ll come to know many unfortunate people as you read this book, people who have been marginalized, oppressed, lied-to, cheated, illegally punished, ignored, threatened, and even killed by their own government.

And if you believe the Second Amendment means what it plainly says, and that the NRA exists to prevent your gun rights from being abridged, you’ll want to lock your firearms away in case you lose your temper when you read the truth about how the NRA is, and always has been, a gun-control organization.

Justice Louis Brandeis said, “The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well-meaning but without understanding.”

After reading The Ballad of Carl Drega, you will understand in great detail exactly what Justice Brandeis meant.

There's been a few people commenting in this thread as if they don't know that this type of shit has been going on for a LONG time. If you think the stuff going on out in Oregon is "new" - you'd do well to inform yourself a little better and start reading up about some of the shit that went down in the 1990's.
 
bc no one from here is going. It's just keyboard commandos.



Your second point is equally flawed. No one did shit after any other gov't massacre. If the feds slaughter everyone out there, that will be the end of it....just like Waco, just like Ruby Ridge.

I would be stupid to head out there.

That whole thing has false flag written all over it - and there's numerous people saying as much in a number of sites I've looked at.

If you have to travel all the way across the country to get involved in shit - you're doing it wrong.
 
Some people just want to be LEFT ALONE.

Yeah - maybe they're a bit whacked - but so what, all they're really asking for is to make their way in life the way they want to - and not be screwed with. I've known a few people like this over the course of my life - and while they may be a bit whacked - they are also pretty much harmless if you just leave them the **** alone.

But we also have a government - that is largely filled up with people who just simply CANNOT leave people alone. It's filled with people whose mentality is filled up with thoughts about how they're so great and helping all of us - because they're out there screwing with people.

It's not just the police that are like this - it's a good part of the bureaucracy that is filled with these people too. They're also bullies - and bullies - like attack dogs who see somebody running - can't stop themselves when they come across certain types of people.

Many of these "I just want to be left alone" types - seem to trigger the bully/ahole types that make up a good part of our government.

That's how you end up with Carl Drega type situations.

One of the better accounts I read about the Carl Drega situation - was by Vin Suprynowicz - who I mentioned here before:

http://www.backwoodshome.com/the-ballad-of-carl-drega/



There's been a few people commenting in this thread as if they don't know that this type of shit has been going on for a LONG time. If you think the stuff going on out in Oregon is "new" - you'd do well to inform yourself a little better and start reading up about some of the shit that went down in the 1990's.

Yeah, lot of people who haven't boned up on the conflict and what is really going on and the roots of it. Even though a lot of people have been kind enough to post links to information about it.

Also way too many people calling 'keyboard commando' and talking about hot pockets.
 
Some people just want to be LEFT ALONE.

Yeah - maybe they're a bit whacked - but so what, all they're really asking for is to make their way in life the way they want to - and not be screwed with. I've known a few people like this over the course of my life - and while they may be a bit whacked - they are also pretty much harmless if you just leave them the **** alone.

But we also have a government - that is largely filled up with people who just simply CANNOT leave people alone. It's filled with people whose mentality is filled up with thoughts about how they're so great and helping all of us - because they're out there screwing with people.

It's not just the police that are like this - it's a good part of the bureaucracy that is filled with these people too. They're also bullies - and bullies - like attack dogs who see somebody running - can't stop themselves when they come across certain types of people.

Many of these "I just want to be left alone" types - seem to trigger the bully/ahole types that make up a good part of our government.

That's how you end up with Carl Drega type situations.

One of the better accounts I read about the Carl Drega situation - was by Vin Suprynowicz - who I mentioned here before:

http://www.backwoodshome.com/the-ballad-of-carl-drega/



There's been a few people commenting in this thread as if they don't know that this type of shit has been going on for a LONG time. If you think the stuff going on out in Oregon is "new" - you'd do well to inform yourself a little better and start reading up about some of the shit that went down in the 1990's.

There is nothing in the world that upsets a liberal like seeing anyone who personifies the kind of self sufficiency that this country was founded on.
Folks like ranchers are the poster child for it.
Therefore must be crushed into submission.
 
Most people have a short memory. Outside of people like us, I think most people have no idea what Ruby Ridge was and most think Waco was umm like that time when like that crazy creepy rapey church started a gun fight with the FBI. Most people have no idea who the real aggressors were in that case.

If you read comments on various sites right now there's people praising the ATF and saying they should go full retard Waco on Oregon.

There's a big difference between short term memory - and long term ATTITUDE.

You can have late stage Alzheimers - and still have a bad attitude and total distrust of the government.

It's the ATTITUDE piece of this puzzle that so many Americans have spent big money on to get a seat for the nationwide Failbus tour.
 
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If these guys have anywhere near the numbers they claim to have, there's no way the .gov can go full Waco on them. The odds of all 150 guys being in that tiny building are somewhere around 0. That means there are a bunch of guys on their team *somewhere else*. Who wants to be first through the door of a building supported by overwatch?

I also think these guys are just using the Hammond deadline as a rallying point. Their agenda is bigger than just the Bundys or the Hammonds. So the Hammonds distancing themselves is a matter of self preservation and shouldn't detract from their mission (although the media is certainly playing it that way).

- - - Updated - - -



Not trying to be argumentative, but when was the last time the left wasn't gearing up for more gun control?

Point taken. But that is my point - if you follow this long enough - there is a PATTERN.

There's always an "event" that VERY conveniently "occurs" - just when they start up their next major push on gun control.
 
I don't have my CNBC ticker to follow the play-by-play, but riddle me this, is it too early to determine that the A Team at the refuge is a bunch of Bundy disciple malcontents (whom the Hammonds told to get bent) trying to incite "Go Time" or is this a government initiated smoke screen to facilitate further tightening the noose around 2A?

In other news, nice to see the NRA throwing gas on the fire, I mean hat in the ring. Nice ad on Fox.
 
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These things do evoke changes though. Look at the way the .gov handled the browns vs how they handled randy weaver. Because the backlash from reacting poorly causes a price to be paid. (for example, the OKC bombing). If the .gov handles this poorly it'll breed the next McVeigh or whoever, or even other movements. This whole Bundy thing is also dangerous for them because it is a lot more difficult for the .gov to write off the family as "wackjobs" like they could do with Koresh or Randy Weaver. The default media/gov narrative is "well, we'll marginalize them in public perception by telling everyone about the whacky things that they believe in, that way nobody will give a shit about them if we have to kill them." The problem here is it's going to be pretty difficult for the government to spin "farmers/ranchers trying to earn a livelihood" into something illegitimate and wacky.

-Mike

This combined with a HUGE uptick in distrust toward the government in all segments of society.
 
Seriously. Since when is journalism just copying and pasting random tweets? Then of course there are the myriad factual inaccuracies or at least historical understatements. I guess maybe Randy Weaver was a dangerous mixture of white and separatist.

You ought to go read up on Randy Weaver a little bit more.

He was painted as a racist - and that was largely done so they (the govt.) - could screw him over.
 
As much as I like him, gotta add Cruz to that tool shed if he made that statement.


I like Cruz but I think he's wrong on this one.
I don't recall king George being voted out.
That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness

 
The founders were hypocrites who didn't share a united vision.

There were different factions within the founders of this country. Some of them basically wanted big government.

Looks like they won.

But they got there by a conspiracy - which took out the Articles of Confederation:

http://www.garynorth.com/public/7833.cfm

The Wikipedia article on this consolidation of Federal debt is accurate in its discussion of Hamilton's motives.

Hamilton's economic plan had multiple goals. First, the debts and honor of the nation would be secured. Hamilton felt that the Federal government would not be able to borrow money from anyone in the future if these debts were not paid. By selling bonds to pay the debt, bondholders would have a direct financial interest to help the new United States government survive and thrive. Creditors who purchased the bonds could use them as collateral for loans, stimulating the economy even more.

The plan would also create a bureaucracy of agents across the country who would be tied to the Federal government instead of the individual states. Assuming the debts of the states would likewise couple financial elites in those states to the national government and less so to state governments, thereby reducing the risk of secession. Hamilton's scheme was called "debt assumption plan," and it was a radical idea in 1790.

Hamilton's Report supported ideas of war debt assumption, redemption of Confederate securities at face value, and funding of new national securities as a permanent national debt. Hamilton reasoned that creating a large financial structure, which wealthy citizens would support and belong to, would enhance the revenue and fiscal system of the national government and bring prosperity to the Federal government. He also reckoned that failure to establish the creditworthiness of the Federal government would weaken the United States, and called a permanent, reasonably-sized public debt "the powerful cement of our Union."

Hamilton's statements at the time were quite frank about all this.

When Madison and Jefferson opposed the plan, Hamilton bought them off by promising to support the swamp today known as Washington D.C. as the nation's Capitol. This was done at a private dinner with only the three in attendance. Jefferson later wrote about it.

Here was the outcome:

The Treasury Department quickly grew in stature and personnel, encompassing the United States Customs Service, the United States Revenue Cutter Service, and the network of Treasury agents Hamilton had foreseen. Hamilton immediately followed up his success with the Second Report on Public Credit, containing his plan for the Bank of the United States --- a national, privately-operated bank owned in part by the government, which became the forerunner of the Federal Reserve System. In 1791 Hamilton released a third report, the Report on Manufactures, which encouraged the growth and protection of manufacturing.

By 1791, Hamilton had created a vast Federal debt and the nation's first central bank, owned privately.

He had planned it from the beginning. That was why he promoted the Constitution. This was why he wrote most of The Federalist Papers.

The anti-Federalists predicted accurately what was coming in 1787. It came.

There was a conspiracy in Philadelphia in 1787. It was successful. I have written a book on this: Conspiracy in Philadelphia. You can download it for free here.

To understand the expansion of Federal power in 1788, consider this. In 1786, the Federal government's total army was 1,200 men. It was too small come to the rescue of the state of Massachusetts in putting down Shays' rebellion. This was a rebellion by rural counties against the state government's decision in 1786 to pay off state debts in silver, collected from the counties. The governor and most of the members of the legislature had bought these debts for pennies in fiat currency. Now they were about to get very rich at the expense of rural taxpayers, who had little silver. A lot of counties revolted.

That was the trigger that got George Washington to attend the Convention, which he had previously refused to agree to attend. He had been completely misinformed about the motives of the protest. A former general of his sent him letters that concealed the politics of the revolt. Read my article on this revolt: "John Hancock's Big Toe."

In 1794, Washington personally led an army of 13,000 to crush a tax revolt in Western Pennsylvania. This was the first and last time a President ever led troops into action. Because so few men volunteered, the Federal government imposed a draft. This was the whiskey rebellion.

The revolt was against Hamilton's 1791 tax on whiskey -- a tax used to raise revenues to pay off Federal debts at face value -- debts that the holders had purchased for pennies. If this sounds like a replay of Shays' rebellion and its outcome, that's because it was, but on a far larger scale.

Centralized power? I guess so.

What Hamilton didn't do, Federalist Party Supreme Court Chief Justice John Marshal did do, 1801-1836. Among other things, he wrote the opinion for McCulloch v. Maryland (1819), which authorized the privately owned Second Bank of the United States to exercise a government-granted monopoly over the monetary system.

In only one fiscal year, 1836, has the U.S. government ever been debt-free.
 
A reliable source has intimated Pablo Escobar has been hired on consignment to trench a tunnel for the fellas so when the Feds eviscerate the grid, there will be no dental records to claim .gov victory.
 
Black Lives Matter blocks highways, airports and shopping centers? Legitimate protests!

Left wing activists occupy the Wisconsin Capitol? Legitimate protests!

Occupy Wall Street hippies take over public areas? Legitimate protests!

Right wingers occupy an empty federal building in the middle of nowhere? TERRORISTS!!!!!
 
Reading (well, skimming) the past few pages here, it seems clear to me that EITHER the Bundys are Jim Jones reincarnated or the .gov is doing a MASTERFUL job of guerrilla internet warfare.

Based on the fact that the Hammond daughter third from the right in the "family" portrait is HOT, I'm going with the warfare option.
 
There were different factions within the founders of this country. Some of them basically wanted big government.

Looks like they won.

But they got there by a conspiracy - which took out the Articles of Confederation:

http://www.garynorth.com/public/7833.cfm
Yup, that's part of what I was referring to. The other part is that even those who were in favor of more freedom (Jeffersonians) were not even in their application
 
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