Horrible
NES Member
Rubio is a tool. This is public land. No laws have been broken.
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oregon militia seizes building
- Thread starter just jim
- Start date
Rubio is a tool. This is public land. No laws have been broken.
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Finalygotabeltfed
They did at Kent State.Ever hear of Bonus Army when US Troops under the command of Gen Douglas MacArthur attacked WW1 veterans and their families encamped in Washington protesting to get a promised veterans bonus early at the height of the Great Depression ? 2 dead 1017 injured including women and children.
Nothing new here, and remember Shay's Rebellion right here in Mass? Gen Washington led the campaign. 4 killed, many wounded and two hanged after the rebellion was over.
Happened before, will happen again.
Native Americans weren't US Citizens in the 19th Century but were frequently protected by US Treaties and thus protected by the US Govt. Now the Sand Creek Massacre was executed by the Colorado Militia not Federal, equivalent to today's National Guard, Wounded Knee was carried out by Federal a troops.
My open question is when are some of you folks who have been preaching aggressive resistance to the .gov packin' your ruck picking up your AR or AK and heading to Oregon? I've gone thru this whole thread. Is this the new Lexington, is the timing right, or will this just end up being another Waco? Seems to me there are some desperate people out there who are doing what many of you have advocated for years. I'm asking seriously and respectfully. Is this the new shot heard round the world ?
That is not even close to being a "Lexington" scale event and a shot hasn't been fired.... yet, but my guess is that its not going to be the guys occupying the federal land that will fire first it will be the feds per their usual M O. Time will tell.
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Finalygotabeltfed
Their case is about their private land that the government has been trying to screw them out of for 40+ years.
All branches of govt. are extremely corrupt and they make rules and hand down judicial decisions that favor them and that allows them to enrich and empower themselves more and more. It is basically impossible to be treated fairly unless it is an instance that will make the govt. look good and benefit them in other ways too.
Horrible
NES Member
Absolutely correct. But, I believe that Rubio is referring to the protesters. Maybe I mis-read his quote.
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Hate to say it, but I agree with you! Nobody, with the obvious exception of the Federal govt, has used force or violence.
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They burnt public land, not private.
Though it is possible that the BLM has been trying to seize land from ranchers for mineral mining, fracking, etc.
I read somewhere that Bundy's land was being eyed for stuff like that.
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this and they were accused of poaching deer on the public land and setting fires to hide it. Who knows if true or not. Wouldn't be surprised either way. The other fire they claim to have set as a controlled burn with BLM's approval but somehow there's no proof of that.
As a general rule of thumb I'll give the benefit of the doubt to the citizens over the gov't every time, but I'm not entirely convinced that the Hammond's and Bundys aren't simply a bunch of shit starting rednecks looking for a fight.
Someone has to be right? It won't be the folks of MA that put the .gov over their knee with a wooden paddle...
Horrible
NES Member
Not sure either, but seeing how the Federal govt pushes the little guy around (esp those NOT in a protected group or class) and selectively enforces minor laws against some while ignoring capital crimes against others, its not that difficult to believe Hammonds/Bundy's side of the story.
With a lawless Administration currently in power, the idea of the Feds having broken several laws wouldn't surprise me or anyone else.
True. Kind of reminds of of the Carl Drega stuff. Gov't pushed and pushed and pushed until the dude snapped and went ape shit on everyone. Seems like the local gov't nitwits actually enjoyed ****ing with the guy and giving him a hard time. They weren't laughing for long. On the other hand, Carl was a bit off the reservation.
true but in this case I don't think it's going to be the gov't bent over anything.
How many EPA officials got thrown in the slammer for this?
http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/10/us/colorado-epa-mine-river-spill/
I dare say their little 3 million gallon spill did FAR more damage than a couple of farmers letting a burn get out of hand a bit....
ToddDubya
NES Member
They certainly have the look of shit starting rednecks
NYT is doing a piece "What if the Oregon activists were black or muslim"
That ought to give an interesting perspective.
That ought to give an interesting perspective.
Is is irrelevant if the Hammonds/Bundy are thugs or saints.
These types of cases put personal stance to the test. Hammonds/Bundy will be portrayed and crazy red necks by MSM trying to sway you over, and as freedom loving joe sixpack by alt' outlets - trying to sway you over.
The public opinion battle is far more important than any other gun fight you can imagine.
These types of cases put one's personal stance to a test, regardless of the facts, are you for .gov or are you for the people.
the minor details are really for idiots here.
Who burnt what, when, how many sheep were involved and how many flies were circling the sun at a given time. Seriously, who gives a damn.
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Impossible.
If they were such, they would have been given for free what others are fighting for.
But even then - they would only be standing up to the evil white man.
These types of cases put personal stance to the test. Hammonds/Bundy will be portrayed and crazy red necks by MSM trying to sway you over, and as freedom loving joe sixpack by alt' outlets - trying to sway you over.
The public opinion battle is far more important than any other gun fight you can imagine.
These types of cases put one's personal stance to a test, regardless of the facts, are you for .gov or are you for the people.
the minor details are really for idiots here.
Who burnt what, when, how many sheep were involved and how many flies were circling the sun at a given time. Seriously, who gives a damn.
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Impossible.
If they were such, they would have been given for free what others are fighting for.
But even then - they would only be standing up to the evil white man.
The EPA said: "We will take full responsibility water contamination."
Then came football, end of story.
yep, Bread and Circuses
Firstly, anyone who is genuinely planning on heading out there probably won't post so here.
Secondly, the Feds have the moral obligation to see that this ends peacefully. Why people are so pissed at what the Bundy's have done on Oregon is because now they have put us in a position where it's time to nut up or shut up. They're forcing the governments hand, whatever that action may be. If this turns into a government initiated slaughter of Americans, other patriot groups will be obligated to act and it WILL be the next Lexington whether we agree with what the Bundy's have done or not. If it turns violent, the Bundy's will have boxed us in with our own principles.
bc no one from here is going. It's just keyboard commandos.
Your second point is equally flawed. No one did shit after any other gov't massacre. If the feds slaughter everyone out there, that will be the end of it....just like Waco, just like Ruby Ridge.
Link?
I suggest you read "no more free wacos"
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BTW can we all STFU with this "keyboard commando you ain't gonna do nothing herp-a-derp" nonsense? Namely because those calling names and shit talking others are just as guilty. But also because we're supposed to be on the same team here. This BS division among the gun community needs to come an end ASAP.
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If we can come together on the fact that the gov has BLATANTLY violated to constitution on multiple accounts when it comes to the BLM et. al. And if we can't agree that these ranchers are getting hosed and having their livelihoods destroyed in the name of the EPA and its agenda then we may as well all hand our guns in now.
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I'm pretty sure there were people from here that went out to the Bundy's. I don't think any NES'ers have gone to this but they could have.
I'd have to take your word for it.
These things do evoke changes though. Look at the way the .gov handled the browns vs how they handled randy weaver. Because the backlash from reacting poorly causes a price to be paid. (for example, the OKC bombing). If the .gov handles this poorly it'll breed the next McVeigh or whoever, or even other movements. This whole Bundy thing is also dangerous for them because it is a lot more difficult for the .gov to write off the family as "wackjobs" like they could do with Koresh or Randy Weaver. The default media/gov narrative is "well, we'll marginalize them in public perception by telling everyone about the whacky things that they believe in, that way nobody will give a shit about them if we have to kill them." The problem here is it's going to be pretty difficult for the government to spin "farmers/ranchers trying to earn a livelihood" into something illegitimate and wacky.
-Mike
Most people have a short memory. Outside of people like us, I think most people have no idea what Ruby Ridge was and most think Waco was umm like that time when like that crazy creepy rapey church started a gun fight with the FBI. Most people have no idea who the real aggressors were in that case.
If you read comments on various sites right now there's people praising the ATF and saying they should go full retard Waco on Oregon.
I agree but the Brown situation would have gone south sooner or later. While they showed a lot more restraint than they did at Ruby Ridge they were frothing at the mouth with itchy trigger fingers the whole time. .
The Bundy's and everyone else are being called "extremists" already in the media and according to the comment sections, a lot of people are swallowing that line of BS. I even see semi mainstream sites calling them terrorists. So the smear campaign is in full effect. Might not be able to shoot them all and call them whackjobs today, but give it a few more news cycles.
I'd say if the gov't learned anything it's how to better cover their ass, no behave themselves any better.
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they make up half the electorate is the point.
Because the MSM is trying to convince people that the Hammonds are "red neck shit starters" and people believe it. Yes even some of you on this thread are shockingly repeating the BS about deer poaching and almost killing wildland firefighters. Has anyone read the back story on this? What REALLY happened and how long it's been going on? I suggest you do so before regurgitating the MSM's propaganda
The problem is both sides are not being honest. That's about the only truth we can garner out of all this. While you're busy misquoting me, note that I said I didn't really have a good reason not be believe they're just redneck shit starters. In other words, maybe the are maybe they aren't. I'm not there on the ground and I'm not taking either side's narrative as gospel truth.
All that aside, I know which side I'm more likely to be sympathetic to and it ain't Uncle Sam and his goons. Yet still, I'm not sold, not by a long shot, on the shit the Bundy's and Hammond's are selling.
Horrible
NES Member
Especially the part about how the Hammonds had permitted water rights granted by the state of Oregon that were upheld by Oregon courts when the BLM and FWS had challenged these rights. BLM & FWS began illegally constructing a fence around the Hammond's water source in 1994!
Sections (b) & (c)
http://theconservativetreehouse.com...st-to-hammond-family-persecution/#more-110497
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