No Fly Lists Ruled Unconstitutional

[Mesatchornug]

it sounds like these no-fly lists are static, i.e. it's a bunch of first/last name combos, not passport id or SS# (not that those are available in little Brazil for a few pesos) Would changing your name simply defeat the procedure? ... or better yet, change your name to Bill Clinton ?

Actually, a related question, what does legally changing your name would entail, any chance to get off PP list or SO list or have your record of firearm ownership be gone in the police records? My bet is all of the above.

Don't you have to list (past) aliases on the 4473?


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[Boris]

Don't you have to list (past) aliases on the 4473?

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that doesn't change the issue on how lookup is done, if people are looked up on first/last name, then jim bob isn't the same as james bob, which seems to be the case since people with the same names get blacklisted.

actually, the simple defense for this would be to discover mechanism of blacklisting and try to blacklist everyone. When no one can fly, the list becomes useless.

 

[Rider]

it sounds like these no-fly lists are static, ...

Imagine how much effort would be required to periodically go through every single name on the list, open the record associated with the name(ha! I kill me sometimes!) and review whether or not the name should still be on the list. This is the whole reason why a giant unaccountable bureaucracy is bad. It's giant, it's unaccountable, and it's a bureaucracy.

I know that isn't lost on you; I'm just sayin'.

 

[strangenh]

Just change your name to: Cleared To Fly

 

[Spanz]

Welcome to 2016 people, where this decision from 2014 clearly had an impact on the no fly list ballooning from 20k to 100k people.

 

[JackOfAllTrades]

Perhaps I am missing something, but the right to appeal being on the list is not due process.

If a process for getting off the list is considered due process, then we should be able to revoke the driver's license of everyone who leaves the liquor store and gets into their car... so long as there is a process for them to prove that they weren't driving drunk.

The due process part is supposed to involve producing some evidence and you having a chance to argue your case... before you are punished, not after.

Heck, even in the case of a restraining order, you get a notification and there is a hearing.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

so long as there is a process for them to prove that they weren't driving drunk.

Actually, to match no-fly, it would have to be a process for them to convince their accuser they were not drunk.

The due process part is supposed to involve producing some evidence and you having a chance to argue your case... before you are punished, not after.

Due process also includes the right to have your case heard by an independent finder of fact, not your accuser.

Heck, even in the case of a restraining order, you get a notification and there is a hearing.

Yes, but the punishment starts immediately - prior to the (so called) hearing.

 

[Varmint]

Currently, what happens when somebody on the list tries to fly? Are they arrested on the spot or just denied a flight and sent on their way?

They are just turned away and given a list of Arizona F&F gun shops.

 

[rali]

"a way to appeal it" is no guarantee that even if you can prove 100% you shouldn't be on there, that you can get yourself off. I don't now why people trust our government with this kind of shit. Our founding documents may not have foreseen this exact circumstance, but they sure as hell foresaw the underlying problems the government could create!

I never said it was, I never said I did and I am sure they did.

Not clear whether you were trying to call me out or simply expanding on the theme. I'll assume the latter.

R

 

[Cabinetman]

As far as I'm concerned, if you're on the NFL, you should also be denied a passport during application. That would certainly get someone's panties in a bunch.

I wonder if that judges ruling back in 2014 had said somthing different like "all 7.62 x 39 ammunition is to be banned", if it would have been followed to the letter immediately. Seems like the liberals in this country pick and choose what they are going to enforce and what they will simply ignore.

Rome