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your rights as an american citizen and having the ability to defend yourself and your family--or hanging out with a bunch of dipshit rabid antis who will happily strip your rights from you under the guise of "public safety", empty your wallet in the interest of "the greater good", and ultimately end up jailing you anyway because you are still a "right-wing nutjob conservative"?

Yeah but "it's for the children"

BRB, gotta go puke now, I can't believe how often that argument is used
 

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Matter of principle, I wouldn't go. Let your wife hang out with her friends. Then sit her down afterward & both of you try to figure out why she'd waste time on arseholes who would compromise her safety and deny her rights. Remember. Friends don't let friends hang out with liberals.
 

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I'll admit to not reading most of this thread. There have been many threads on this before both on NES and on DefensiveCarry.com (which is a forum dedicated to CCW issues). Change the names and places, but the story is always the same.

Here's my take on the situation:

- It's YOU that they don't trust with a gun in a case like this. Given that fact, personally I would opt-out and let the Wife go without me. Even better if she makes the point that the host/hostess does not trust YOU and that is why you aren't there! Lay the guilt trip back where it belongs.

- As Derek says, life's too short to spend it dealing with idiots. I wouldn't waste my time arguing my case with them, I'd just avoid them.

- Almost all my Wife's "friends" are dyed in the wool moonbats that hate/fear guns. We don't discuss guns with them ever. They have no idea what we own, what we carry, if we carry, etc. Asking is just as rude as asking someone's bra size or color of their underwear, etc. If you have to make a point with a nosy person that sort of response will likely end the questioning.

- Adm. Grace Hopper said it best "It's easier to ask forgiveness than to ask permission"! It's been my motto ever since I met that wonderful and brilliant lady. Don't ask permission to possess your guns in the presence of others!! Would you ask them if it's OK to possess a condom in your pocket when you're in their presence? It's nobody's business but yours and don't invite debate/arguments by following Adm. Hopper's advice.


Carry on! [wink]
 
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I would politely decline on principle, and inform them of that. I would however, also acknowledge that it is "their home, their rules" and they set the terms for visitors. To go armed after saying you would not seems wimpy and if you are discovered will make you and your wife look cowardly.
You win the most by standing on principle. Especially with your wife.
Out of all the suggestions, I agree with this one the most.
 

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You know, the next time my sister asks me not to talk politics when she and I visit my dad, I guess I'll tell her to stuff it. I am going to talk about whatever I want to talk about regardless of how she feels about it. I'm just exercising my rights.
 

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We don't live alone in this world. We have to respect other's rights and wishes.
If they know you carry and ask you not to at their house, you must respect their wishes by either not carrying or by not going. To do otherwise is forcing yourself and your rights down their throats over their rights on their property.

You become the moonbat.
 
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You know, the next time my sister asks me not to talk politics when she and I visit my dad, I guess I'll tell her to stuff it. I am going to talk about whatever I want to talk about regardless of how she feels about it. I'm just exercising my rights.
We don't live alone in this world. We have to respect other's rights and wishes.
If they know you carry and ask you not to at their house, you must respect their wishes by either not carrying or by not going. To do otherwise is forcing yourself and your rights down their throats over their rights on their property.

You become the moonbat.
i know you're being sarcastic, but you still contradict yourself. you say in post #1 that you would tell her to stuff it and speak because it's your right; in your logic you are not allowing her to infringe on your rights so you will not stay silent.

in post #2 you say that you must respect the rights of your "friends" on their property by sacrificing your own rights.

wat.

the way it works with me is that if you don't want me carrying? too bad, i'm going to do it, and you won't know it. if you don't want to talk politics? fine, i won't do it in the interest of being civil, but if you start spewing bullshit then it's on and you will be corrected.
 

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You know, the next time my sister asks me not to talk politics when she and I visit my dad, I guess I'll tell her to stuff it. I am going to talk about whatever I want to talk about regardless of how she feels about it. I'm just exercising my rights.
Not the same at all. She is the one being rude demanding to control what you are wearing under your clothes along with telling you that you cannot be trusted with something you carry all the time. She doesn't need to know, nor does she have any business demanding to. Comparing that to polite conversation intentionally misstates the issue.
 
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The friend has taken a stand and so must you. I would not go and would tell her why. If she and the wife don't like it ,well tough crap. I would endure the argument, had a zillion of those and head to the range or go fishing for the day. JMO
 
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Not the same at all. She is the one being rude demanding to control what you are wearing under your clothes along with telling you that you cannot be trusted with something you carry all the time. She doesn't need to know, nor does she have any business demanding to. Comparing that to polite conversation intentionally misstates the issue.
Frankly, it's the same damn thing. She's being rude to tell me I can't talk politics with my dad. BTW this isn't a hypothetical; I go through this all the time with her. Most of the time I don't talk politics around her. When I decide it's more advantageous to my mental well being than it will be injurious to our relationship to do so, I do.

I think it's just about respect, honoring other's wishes and rights and being civil towards friends (and family) regardless if it's about guns, politics, religion, or whathaveyou.

And anyone has a right to say: No shoes, no shirts and no guns in my house. Or whatever. And you don't have a right to come in clothed, shod and totin'.
 
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Frankly, it's the same damn thing. She's being rude to tell me I can't talk politics with my dad. BTW this isn't a hypothetical; I go through this all the time with her. Most of the time I son't talk politics around her. When I decide it's more advantageous to my mental well being than it will be injurious to our relationship to do so, I do.

I think it's just about respect, honoring other's wishes and rights and being civil towards friends (and family) regardless if it's about guns, politics, religion, or whathaveyou.

And anyone has a right to say: No shoes, no shirts and no guns in my house. Or whatever. And you don't have a right to come in clothed, shod and totin'.
WHY does the subject even come up?

No shoes, no shirts are visible things that others can physically see with no effort on their part.

CCW is just that, CONCEALED . . . and nobody should know what is UNDER your clothes unless they are going to frisk you/everyone upon entry to their property! Now if the frisker is really cute, I'd insist on "equal rights" to frisk her back . . . she'll either drop the subject or you might have a fun time, win-win in either case. If the frisker isn't cute or my type, I'd tell her to get a job at TSA and leave regardless of what I'm carrying or not (and I wouldn't return there ever)!
 

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WHY does the subject even come up?

No shoes, no shirts are visible things that others can physically see with no effort on their part.

CCW is just that, CONCEALED . . . and nobody should know what is UNDER your clothes unless they are going to frisk you/everyone upon entry to their property! Now if the frisker is really cute, I'd insist on "equal rights" to frisk her back . . . she'll either drop the subject or you might have a fun time, win-win in either case. If the frisker isn't cute or my type, I'd tell her to get a job at TSA and leave regardless of what I'm carrying or not (and I wouldn't return there ever)!
Ha ha... well, being that my sister is eligible for Social Security...

I don't know why you're limiting the discussion to concealed carry. I'd guess that most of the folks here saying/thinking they'd "go anyway, screw'em" would say if they wanted to open carry they could/should/would do that too.

After all, "in the days of the wild west, the only people who carried concealed were the bad guys."
 

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And anyone has a right to say: No shoes, no shirts and no guns in my house. Or whatever. And you don't have a right to come in clothed, shod and totin'.
I piss and shit on conditional invitations. If you have to check your dick at the door, for whatever reason, consider going elsewhere. Next time they will demand that you wear a pink thong and give a BJ to Barry's cardboard cutout on your way in.

Be a ****ing man. When you trade your core beliefs for a chance to hang around hippies and libtards, you are no better than a whore ... probably worse, because a whore gets paid and you just wasted your time.
 

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Ha ha... well, being that my sister is eligible for Social Security...

I don't know why you're limiting the discussion to concealed carry. I'd guess that most of the folks here saying/thinking they'd "go anyway, screw'em" would say if they wanted to open carry they could/should/would do that too.

After all, "in the days of the wild west, the only people who carried concealed were the bad guys."
Old ignorance or new ignorance is still ignorant. I have no doubt that many people concealed who weren't "bad guys" and you never heard anything about it.
 

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It wasn't well thought out or articulate, it was just me labeling your behavior, but not necessarily you. Perhaps you are confused and in a weak moment. So here's some food for thought.

Ask yourself this: would you cover up a tattoo around your friends without prompting on their behalf? Now think about this:

1. This action would be the result of you making assumptions about your friends
2. This action would also be the result of you assuming that your tattoo could be taken as offensive
3. This action also would be assuming that your friends would not accept you for who you are

All of these things are true to your actions of turtling with your 2nd amendment rights around your "friends." Before even asking them whether you carrying would be offensive to them, and subsequently sparking healthy conversation between people who you consider friends (as all friends should be able to do) you make assumptions that what you're doing is "bad," that it can be taken as offensive to your friends, and that they subsequently don't accept you as yourself as they are rejecting your desires/ideals.

Why not ask for permission to carry on their premises? Why not start a healthy conversation about it with them? At the very least you'll better learn their stance on the issue and their reasoning. At the very best, you'll initiate a long conversation where both participants listen to each other and learn a thing or two, because friends listen to each other. And you've stated that you believe them to be cut from that same cloth.

Now ask yourself this: are they really your friends? And why are you afraid of talking with them about these issues? Are they irreproachable?

Or are you a acting like a bitch and conforming to assumptions that you've made about your friends in order to fit in with them? Notice- I haven't called you one yet. I've only referenced your actions as likable to that of one, dude.
My point is that I am of the opinion that people should be able to exercise their second amendment right. They have a different opinion. I want my opinion respected so I respect theirs. I don't allow ANYONE to tell me I can't carry where I have the legal right to. It is their home and or property so I respect their wishes as I would expect them to in my home. I almost never start a discussion about firearms but if I feel compelled to join one I make my points in a respectful manner. I have had some successes and I've been unable to convince some people despite my best efforts. There is an old saying that you can't argue with ignorance. In all those cases people just want to believe any rhetoric that seems to make their point. They truly want to believe a gun free utopia can exist. You and I know it can't. It is not my civic responsibility to try and make everyone I come in contact with see things my way. I never try to force my opinion down anyone's throat.

At these events some of the people are my friends and some are group members I'm just acquainted with. There are frequently discussions about firearms and firearms law. In reality the mix is actually in favor of people who own guns or don't mind people who do. I've taken some of the members to the range shooting much to the displeasure of the groups owner. It's your opinion that I waive my second amendment right at the door. My opinion is that I am respectful of opinions different than mine and I'm not going to try to make everyone see it my way. Being considerate to other people in their home "in my opinion" doesn't mean I'm acting like a bitch. It means I'm a considerate person.
 

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I piss and shit on conditional invitations. If you have to check your dick at the door, for whatever reason, consider going elsewhere. Next time they will demand that you wear a pink thong and give a BJ to Barry's cardboard cutout on your way in.

Be a ****ing man. When you trade your core beliefs for a chance to hang around hippies and libtards, you are no better than a whore ... probably worse, because a whore gets paid and you just wasted your time.
I said, "you must respect their wishes by either not carrying or by not going."

Which is the same that you said, only without the piss, shit, dick, pink thong, BJs, ****ing man, libtards, and whore.
 

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I'd show up with it and if someone says anything I say "Yes I was asked not to bring it, but I declined".

Screw them. It's your right to carry, even the state thinks it's ok for you to carry. I might even tell them that.

Oh and my friends would never ask me not to carry because they know I'd bring two instead of one.
 

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My point is that I am of the opinion that people should be able to exercise their second amendment right. They have a different opinion. I want my opinion respected so I respect theirs. I don't allow ANYONE to tell me I can't carry where I have the legal right to. It is their home and or property so I respect their wishes as I would expect them to in my home. I almost never start a discussion about firearms but if I feel compelled to join one I make my points in a respectful manner. I have had some successes and I've been unable to convince some people despite my best efforts. There is an old saying that you can't argue with ignorance. In all those cases people just want to believe any rhetoric that seems to make their point. They truly want to believe a gun free utopia can exist. You and I know it can't. It is not my civic responsibility to try and make everyone I come in contact with see things my way. I never try to force my opinion down anyone's throat.

At these events some of the people are my friends and some are group members I'm just acquainted with. There are frequently discussions about firearms and firearms law. In reality the mix is actually in favor of people who own guns or don't mind people who do. I've taken some of the members to the range shooting much to the displeasure of the groups owner. It's your opinion that I waive my second amendment right at the door. My opinion is that I am respectful of opinions different than mine and I'm not going to try to make everyone see it my way. Being considerate to other people in their home "in my opinion" doesn't mean I'm acting like a bitch. It means I'm a considerate person.
I am glad you are more involved in conversing about it than you lead me to believe in your first post. You appeared to be so passive that you made preemptive decisions without anyone ever taking issue with you carrying on their property.

There is a big difference between doing things without being asked in the hopes of "making someone feel better" and what is simple courtesy: being asked to comply with someone's wishes in their home and then you complying with them. Your first post did not specify your actions as one or the other. If you're being courteous, cool. If you're doing things to neuter yourself without anyone asking you to, then you have some issues in my humble opinion.

This does not change my opinion of associating with people that are so insecure that they must ask you to not carry around them.
 
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Old ignorance or new ignorance is still ignorant. I have no doubt that many people concealed who weren't "bad guys" and you never heard anything about it.
Probably true.

But you didn't address the issue of why limiting the discussion to concealed carry. What if you're an open carrier, and they invite you and ask you to leave your gun at home? You have just as much a right to open carry as you do to CC, soo, how is the situation any different?

1st response: Well they wouldn't be my friend in the first place. Check.
2nd response: Well they wouldn't be respecting me as a friend. Check.
3rd response: Well, I have a right to carry anyway, and if they don't like it... Check.

To those who would sneak their gun in concealed, my mother used to say: "Character is what you do when you think nobody is looking." OK, she wasn't original. But the point is that YOU will know what you did, that you violated your friend's wishes. What does that say about you?
 
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To those who would sneak their gun in concealed, my mother used to say: "Character is what you do when you think nobody is looking." OK, she wasn't original. But the point is that YOU will know what you did, that you violated your friend's wishes. What does that say about you?
it says that i'm willing to do what it takes to protect myself, my family, and my friends. even if they are not. i am perfectly comfortable with rustling someone's butthole if it's for this reason.

am i supposed to feel guilty that i man up and take the steps necessary to make sure the people i care about are protected? i don't have pussy anti friends so their safety is not my business, but the safety of those i love is--and i intend to keep them safe.
 

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Probably true.

But you didn't address the issue of why limiting the discussion to concealed carry. What if you're an open carrier, and they invite you and ask you to leave your gun at home? You have just as much a right to open carry as you do to CC, soo, how is the situation any different?
I didn't address your strawman because that wasn't the question asked by the OP.

Honestly, I hadn't thought about whether I would view OC vs CCW the same way in this regard.
 
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Unless you are going to be frisked I don't see where there is an issue?
+1 = Concealed means that no one should know unless you tell them.

I have some friends that know I carry frequently, but not all the time. The subject has come up (are you carying now?) before and I've asked them... Well, have a look and see if you can tell. I can't tell you how many times they have mistaken the bump in my shirt, created by my iPhone case, for my concealed piece. To date, no one has accurately determined if I am carrying, or where the pistol is located on my person.
 

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it says that i'm willing to do what it takes to protect myself, my family, and my friends. even if they are not. i am perfectly comfortable with rustling someone's butthole if it's for this reason.

am i supposed to feel guilty that i man up and take the steps necessary to make sure the people i care about are protected? i don't have pussy anti friends so their safety is not my business, but the safety of those i love is--and i intend to keep them safe.
I understand what you're saying. But does that attitude mean that you'll do whatever is best for you in every circumstance, so you really can't be trusted? (I AM NOT SAYING THAT, I'M ASKING) Yousay it's all about protecting yourself/family, but at the end of the day lots of things can be put in that category. Hey, I'm hungry and you don't need that Rolex...

Is it worth the tiny risk of going to a party unarmed to respect your friend's rights/wishes? If it's that dangerous there, perhaps you shouldn't go at all for that reason?

Just thinking out loud.
 

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That's a very cool answer.
oh? K? [laugh]

Not sure what you mean by that, but having had a moment to think, I would say this, the mode of dress for a given event is a complex issue for a lot of people. People get overly worked up about what other people wear to things (like a thong to a funeral). It is what it is, so I would have to say that whatever the answer about OC, it gets into a broader issue of social courtesy of "appropriate dress".

Since, I generally care less about what other people do with themselves than most people seem to, I am not the best person to ask about where the line would be on "appropriate apparel" WRT OCing a firearm.

CCW avoids all those issues.

Generally I would say that if there wasn't so much hoplophobia people wouldn't think twice about a nice dressy leather belt and holster. Since you brought up "olden times", they generally did not back then, in fact in various societies at various times, weapons have been worn regularly as part of formal dress...

p.s. this being a casual affair it shouldn't matter though...
 
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I understand what you're saying. But does that attitude mean that you'll do whatever is best for you in every circumstance, so you really can't be trusted? (I AM NOT SAYING THAT, I'M ASKING) Yousay it's all about protecting yourself/family, but at the end of the day lots of things can be put in that category. Hey, I'm hungry and you don't need that Rolex...

Is it worth the tiny risk of going to a party unarmed to respect your friend's rights/wishes? If it's that dangerous there, perhaps you shouldn't go at all for that reason?

Just thinking out loud.
there are probably people who would be HORRIFIED if they knew i had a gun on my person in their presence, all i cay say to that is: SUCK IT. i don't care. i ate dinner with a hardcore anti the other day and they had no idea i had a gun, and i was fine with it, in fact i relished it a bit knowing how pants-shittingly afraid of guns they are for no reason and yet they were enjoying their dinner right next to one.

to address your first point... mother****ers don't want to end up in that category, period. and i don't wear watches. i will protect the people i love, period. the second part of the first paragraph is not that i am scared, paranoid, or that an area is dangerous. my carry guns are like my cell phone wallet, and keys. i do not leave the house without them. and again, i don't have pussy anti friends so a lot of times it's show and tell with a firearm, when i have friends over that i haven't seen in awhile the first thing we have is show and tell for the new shit since the last time i've seen them.

the bottom line is that if someone does not support the second amendment they are no friend of mine so all of the hypothetical scenarios thrown at me will most likely never take place.
 

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oh? K? [laugh]

Not sure what you mean by that,
I meant that it was very cool to see someone actually say "I don't know, I haven't really thought about that yet".

oh? K? [laugh]

Not sure what you mean by that, but having had a moment to think, I would say this, the mode of dress for a given event is a complex issue for a lot of people. People get overly worked up about what other people wear to things (like a thong to a funeral). It is what it is, so I would have to say that whatever the answer about OC, it gets into a broader issue of social courtesy of "appropriate dress".

Since, I generally care less about what other people do with themselves than most people seem to, I am not the best person to ask about where the line would be on "appropriate apparel" WRT OCing a firearm.

CCW avoids all those issues.

Generally I would say that if there wasn't so much hoplophobia people wouldn't think twice about a nice dressy leather belt and holster. Since you brought up "olden times", they generally did not back then, in fact in various societies at various times, weapons have been worn regularly as part of formal dress...

p.s. this being a casual affair it shouldn't matter though...
Good answer overall, too.
 

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my carry guns are like my cell phone wallet, and keys. i do not leave the house without them.


the bottom line is that if someone does not support the second amendment they are no friend of mine so all of the hypothetical scenarios thrown at me will most likely never take place.
I guess you won't be getting on a plane, or going to the statehouse tomorrow.

Well technically I guess you can take your carry guns out of the house with you and just check them unloaded into the plane's belly. The statehouse is still out.
 

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I guess you won't be getting on a plane, or going to the statehouse tomorrow.

Well technically I guess you can take your carry guns out of the house with you and just check them unloaded into the plane's belly. The statehouse is still out.
Just because the government abuses its power doesn't have any bearing on behavior in polite company.

In fact, given that there are recognized religions which dictate dress that includes weapons, the state's policy is in violation of 1A. That it also violates my evidently unrecognized religion of worshiping pizza, civil rights, equality under the law, etc... as rights granted by a vaguely defined creator doesn't matter since we don't have to get into whether my "religion" is sufficient since there already is an example.

Their policy also violates 4A for lack of PC and/or exigence. SCOTUS is very wrong on this and some states agree. This whole concept of "places of nuisance" is a violation of due process as it was intended.
 
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