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Natick Mall Firearms K9

Unrelated to the Mall, but related because someone mentioned gun powder residue.
Back in the old days of freedom and unrestricted travel, precovid, I traveled a lot.

I was on an early flight one Monday morning, going out of Logan to Germany.
I had spent the previous night reloading, I had been on the Dillion 650 and hand loaded some 308.

I was randomly flagged for the finger swab, I asked what it looked for.

"Highly sensitive device, it can detect if you been near explosive or gun power in the last 48 hours"

[rofl]Needless to say, but I was heading to the gate a few moments later.

So as long a bad guy doesn't shower or wash their hands, we safe.
 
There is a lot of Rube Goldberg thinking going on here.

Has anyone considered this could be a bluff from the mall to make everyone think that they have "the situation" under control?

This is really about making the hoplophobes think they are safe.

I am really skeptical that anyone will ever be sniffed off of the premises.
Yeah. 100% Like mentioned earlier, I really doubt the mall is spending the $100k+ on this paw patrol.

I do also think it could actually be somewhat effective at deterring a weak loner who wants to hurt people because nobody likes him.
 
Im guessing if the person with the dog has a gun, hes probably sworn LE. Arent sworn LE required to carry when on duty. BUT, how could he have a firearm if the dog is trained to detect one ? Wouldnt that drive the dog nuts ? Now another ques. Years and years ago i worked as an armed security guard for a company. I was also sworn is as a Ma. Constable. Are constables considered sworn LE ?
 
It is not illegal to not notice the sign. It is not illegal to be present in the mall while armed

IF they for ANY reason told you to leave and you don't, then they will arrest or refer you to Natick PD for arrest.

If you leave when asked, you aren't getting arrested, probably. Or not legitimately arrested anyway
Real question.

The one instance of trespassing I was direct involved in required that the “trespasser” be properly served. This is done in writing and gets served by a constable.
Sure the 2 LEO’s who were also personal friends told the offender to leave and she did even after lying to their faces (I had the proof she was told in writing) but it did not matter. No serve, no offense, no charges.

How is the above different from a sign or dog posted on private property where the public is being invited to enter versus a private property posted at the entrance to same?
 
Some of you need more hobbies so you stop wasting time coming up with ideas of how to mess with a dog.

I try to stay away from malls because I don't like crowds of idiots but sometimes I do go to the Natick one. I always carry. If the dog sniffs me out, I'll leave so I don't get trespassed. That's it, end of story - it's literally as simple as that.
I go a mall every time I need something there I can't get conveniently and cheaper online. I do use the Wegmans at Natick Mall, but never enter zombieland (the part outside Weggies).
 
Im guessing if the person with the dog has a gun, hes probably sworn LE. Arent sworn LE required to carry when on duty. BUT, how could he have a firearm if the dog is trained to detect one ? Wouldnt that drive the dog nuts ? Now another ques. Years and years ago i worked as an armed security guard for a company. I was also sworn is as a Ma. Constable. Are constables considered sworn LE ?
Lens's answer would be "Yes, but the MA LE establishment is very reluctant to concede such is the case".

"Highly sensitive device, it can detect if you been near explosive or gun power in the last 48 hours"
In the early days I got flagged once, never since. The exxplisive/deflagratory components in small arms ammo are few and well defined, so the machines are likely able to tell the difference.

Im guessing if the person with the dog has a gun,
Probably unarmed, and if not and LTC would suffice. Interesting strategy - confront person with gun. If the person is a mall shooter or a hoodie out of his crib, armed assault it likely. If the person is an LTC holder the chances are she/he/it poses a threat is at the tail end of a tail end of a normal distribution. It's like losing your keys at night and looking under the lamp rather than the area where you dropped them because the light is better.
 
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Remember, this Rule banning firearms is intended to discourage lawful CCW, NOT aimed at gangbangers and criminals.
Just look at the Braintree Mall and recent "Incidents" with it's "minority" shoppers. Way back in the day, 70's/80's/90's, it was very safe because WHY?
I remember taking my daughter to the Cinema there to see Home Alone, it was a mob scene.
Gosh darn those darkies ruining everything again
 
Spray some doe urine on your shoes and see if the dog tries to hump you. Jack.
Forget doing it to yourself. Dribble some doe scent, fox scent, coyote scent all around the mall.


"THESE FURRY FRIENDS ARE TRAINED TO DETECT FIREARMS AND HERE TO KEEP YOU SAFE"

OK, so they detect firearms. Done. OK.

Now, what are they doing to "keep you safe"?
 
Im guessing if the person with the dog has a gun, hes probably sworn LE. Arent sworn LE required to carry when on duty. BUT, how could he have a firearm if the dog is trained to detect one ? Wouldnt that drive the dog nuts ? Now another ques. Years and years ago i worked as an armed security guard for a company. I was also sworn is as a Ma. Constable. Are constables considered sworn LE ?
Security can be armed with LTC and no police powers. That's likely in these cases. Some police dogs are trained to find guns, so they are obviously trained in some specific way.
 
Real question.

The one instance of trespassing I was direct involved in required that the “trespasser” be properly served. This is done in writing and gets served by a constable.
Sure the 2 LEO’s who were also personal friends told the offender to leave and she did even after lying to their faces (I had the proof she was told in writing) but it did not matter. No serve, no offense, no charges.

How is the above different from a sign or dog posted on private property where the public is being invited to enter versus a private property posted at the entrance to same?
A mall IS private property.

A sign at the front door is not notice and has no binding power. At least in Mass.
 
A mall IS private property.

A sign at the front door is not notice and has no binding power. At least in Mass.
So it’s the same as trespassing at the house.
Big nuttin burger.
Got it.

I was only wondering if the same private property could be treated as drunk driving on private property that the public has open access onto.
 
Yeah. 100% Like mentioned earlier, I really doubt the mall is spending the $100k+ on this paw patrol.

I do also think it could actually be somewhat effective at deterring a weak loner who wants to hurt people because nobody likes him.
Agreed, I think this thing is just to put a bump in the way of a Ritalin boy who someone called a bad name once and now his feelings are hurt.
 
Security can be armed with LTC and no police powers. That's likely in these cases. Some police dogs are trained to find guns, so they are obviously trained in some specific way.
Once again, liability rears its ugly head. That dog is some type of shepherd or shepherd mix. Dogs like that make insurance companies nervous. Unless the dog is owned by a LE agency, is certified and in the custody and control of a sworn LEO, many insurance companies will hike premiums or even cancel homeowners insurance altogether. I am surprised that whatever insurance company is covering this mall is allowing a security dog on the premises. It costs a lot to obtain a suitable dog and train it to detect explosives, act as a patrol dog, etc. Most rinky-dink security companies will be put off by the price tag. That dog probably has no training at all, except basic obedience.
 
If you "look and act" like a cop, a lot of people will think you are and act obediently towards you. Mall security wish they were "bail enforcement agents" YouTubers like Patty Mayo who makes $200K a month
 
Once again, liability rears its ugly head. That dog is some type of shepherd or shepherd mix. Dogs like that make insurance companies nervous. Unless the dog is owned by a LE agency, is certified and in the custody and control of a sworn LEO, many insurance companies will hike premiums or even cancel homeowners insurance altogether. I am surprised that whatever insurance company is covering this mall is allowing a security dog on the premises. It costs a lot to obtain a suitable dog and train it to detect explosives, act as a patrol dog, etc. Most rinky-dink security companies will be put off by the price tag. That dog probably has no training at all, except basic obedience.
A lawsuit against the dog's owner would go a long way to stopping this. Wonder how it does with other dogs, such as a seeing eye dog?


Patty Mayo who makes $200K a month
How does one get into this?
 
Be a successful YouTuber. It helps if you are attractive, interesting, well spoken, and have something unique that will allow you to attract 2M followers.

In other words, most people have no chance.
Illegal in MA as well. Only sworn LE can make arrests. The state bail commissioner sets bail. She could legally track a bail-jumper to MA, then call the local police or a MA constable to pick up the fugitive. MA is very strict about this.
 
Be a successful YouTuber. It helps if you are attractive, interesting, well spoken, and have something unique that will allow you to attract 2M followers.

In other words, most people have no chance.
Try 10.3 mil now. The latest vests say "Fugitive Apprehension Task Force" LOL. The skits are fake. Most people know it but it's ridiculous entertainment. Brilliant of that guy to capitalize on the hole in the market when COPS and Live PD left.
 
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So it’s the same as trespassing at the house.
Big nuttin burger.
Got it.

I was only wondering if the same private property could be treated as drunk driving on private property that the public has open access onto.
Any LE with info on whether you can legally drive drunk on your own property? What about a consenting neighbor? Off road in the deep woods?

Have I finally found my calling?

(I have no idea what the answer is, also no practical need for the info but I, too, an curious)
 
It's all theater, and liability.

I doubt you could even contingency fee counsel to take your case if you were killed or injured because a mall had a no gun policy. There was one case where a licensed gun carrier intervened in a jewelry store robbery and an innocent killed. The family sued the mall for not having "no guns" signs posted. There is another case where Krogers was sued by the family of someone killed by a criminal who obviously would not have entered with a gun.

Simon Properties thanked Eli Dicken after his heroic performance in food court follies, even though it had a no gun policy ..... and has not (as far as I know) repealed that policy.

I would not be surprised if those doggies are on duty as part of some promotional or introductory pricing to "get the word out" about the company providing the service. They are getting national coverage and it may get to be part of a push to make this a new normal, perhaps to the point where shootees will start suing malls that do not rent the dogs.
 
Any LE with info on whether you can legally drive drunk on your own property? What about a consenting neighbor? Off road in the deep woods?

Have I finally found my calling?

(I have no idea what the answer is, also no practical need for the info but I, too, an curious)
I’m no LEO but if the public has access like a shopping plaza or other similar entry way then yes, it’s different.
You ain’t getting busted for DD while on your property.
We bring road sodas all the time on the private dirt roads that are owned by the paper companies. I’ve not heard of any issue but we hardly get hammered as you still need to get home.
 
If they operate like any big box store loss prevention/security, which I know that they do because I worked in loss prevention on multiple levels and in several large stores attached to malls, they wont tell anyone that the dog alerted on you, they will hang back and radio someone in their camera room to follow you around on their cameras while they wait for PD to arrive then they will join up with PD and have them confront you for them. Mall security and store LP agents don't do hands on security or confront anyone anymore unless absolutely necessary.

If the dog walks up to you from behind or you think it alerts on you, you probably won't be confronted, but your best bet, if your carrying, is to leave mall property if it does because you will be greeted by a police officer shortly after. Also, huge news flash but no mall or retail security agent has to physically follow you to your car to see your license plate or the car that you get into. I can personally attest to the fact that even the cameras at the, all but abandoned and outdated, Eastfield Mall can read plates and ID people across the street at McDonald's, and Chicopee Wal-Mart AP can watch people all the way across the shopping center at Home Depot and read plates and ID people over there and all the way out to Memorial Drive where they can see it. Some of the newer stores have 4k PTZ cameras with 20x optical zoom and digital zoom on top of it, and now lots of them also have the parking lot security trailers with extra cameras on masts that have people watching the parking lot full time. Even the stanley sliding doors at the entrances to most places get you on about 8 different camera views in the entrance vestibules on your way in & out. There is almost nowhere in any shopping mall you can't be seen and ID'd on camera at any given time.

I have personally had to deal with working in stores and on properties that have "no weapons" policies and have had to deal with people obviously carrying weapons that patrons of the store noticed and complained about or people obviously stealing or up to no good that had weapons, we never confronted them without police at our side, and often we would wait for them to go outside and the police would confront them outside on the sidewalk. Most people working in security are going to be pro gun or aspiring to be police officers, they aren't going to be worried about the average dude walking with his family that's concealed carrying that prints a bit, they are looking for ghetto goblins and bangers with extended mags poking out of their sweatpants and other stupid shit. Under no circumstances would we ever confront or attempt to stop a shoplifter or someone visibly carrying a weapon, we had to call PD and let them handle it, and that's including having the PD help us serve the person with a no-trespass notice.

If you want to steal from any big box store, openly carry a large straight knife while wearing a covid mask and get in and out before the PD can get there and your all set, leave the store on foot and get picked up out of sight and never come back. LP won't touch it with a ten foot pole because of the visible knife and the PD won't bother unless your making a career out of it or it's a huge dollar amount.
 
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