Moved to NH, but my MA LTC hasn't expired yet...is it still valid?

[Glockster30]

I believe you are incorrect on this. It might have been indirect, but when we did our DLs they asked us if we wanted to vote as well. Since we both checked yes (can't wait to vote for a Republican who can win!) we had to prove citizenship via birth certificates. The process to get a DL in Texas is much more thorough than in MA. We also had to show ID to vote in the primaries, but that's a different story.

It appears that he is incorrect.

https://www.sos.state.tx.us/elections/forms/id/poster-11x17-aw-voter.pdf

 

[gerrycaruso]

I don't understand how it can still be valid if it's a Ma resident license and you're no longer a Ma resident.

 

[Joeldiaz]

I don't understand how it can still be valid if it's a Ma resident license and you're no longer a Ma resident.

Because the law says it remains valid until expiration. As long as you report the move within 30 days as required by law, you’re fine.

 

[gerrycaruso]

OK. It makes no sense but I guess it's just his good fortune.

 

[Joeldiaz]

OK. It makes no sense but I guess it's just his good fortune.

Lots of things about MA gun laws don’t make sense, don’t question it too much

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Because the law says it remains valid until expiration. As long as you report the move within 30 days as required by law, you’re fine.

+1

My challenge for any of the "It's invalid I tell ya" types to produce a law or court decision saying so has been unmet, but there are plenty of proofs by assertion with non-sequitors like "yeah, then I assume you'd like to be the test case".

 

[gerrycaruso]

This state is so oppressive, I'm glad to see any gun owner give them a big FU on the way out.

 

[KBCraig]

Are you sure about this?

I believe you are incorrect on this. It might have been indirect, but when we did our DLs they asked us if we wanted to vote as well. Since we both checked yes (can't wait to vote for a Republican who can win!) we had to prove citizenship via birth certificates. The process to get a DL in Texas is much more thorough than in MA. We also had to show ID to vote in the primaries, but that's a different story.

From the Texas SOS:

VoteTexas.gov » How to register or update your registration information

Registering to vote for the first time:​

To register to vote in Texas, simply complete a voter registration application and return it to your county election office at least 30 days before the upcoming election date. To complete an application, you may:

• Complete an application using the SOS ONLINE VOTER REGISTRATION APPLICATION. Simply fill in the required information, print, sign and mail the completed application directly to your county election office;
• Request a PRINTED APPLICATION. Our office will mail a postage-paid voter registration application to the address provided; OR
• Contact or visit your local VOTER REGISTRAR to complete the voter registration process.

 

[KBCraig]

It appears that he is incorrect.

https://www.sos.state.tx.us/elections/forms/id/poster-11x17-aw-voter.pdf

Read that again and tell me where it says proof of citizenship is required.

A certificate of citizenship is one of the forms of ID that is acceptable, but it's not required.

 

[Glockster30]

Read that again and tell me where it says proof of citizenship is required.

A certificate of citizenship is one of the forms of ID that is acceptable, but it's not required.

Article 6, Section 2 of the Texas Constitution states:

THE TEXAS CONSTITUTION ARTICLE 6. SUFFRAGE

Sec. 2. QUALIFIED VOTER; REGISTRATION; ABSENTEE VOTING. (a) Every person subject to none of the disqualifications provided by Section 1 of this article or by a law enacted under that section who is a citizen of the United States and who is a resident of this state shall be deemed a qualified voter; provided, however, that before offering to vote at an election a voter shall have registered, but such requirement for registration shall not be considered a qualification of a voter within the meaning of the term "qualified voter" as used in any other Article of this Constitution in respect to any matter except qualification and eligibility to vote at an election.
(b) The Legislature may authorize absentee voting.
(c) The privilege of free suffrage shall be protected by laws regulating elections and prohibiting under adequate penalties all undue influence in elections from power, bribery, tumult, or other improper practice.

Does the above say citizen proof is not required? I read it as you need to be a citizen to vote.

 

[KBCraig]

Article 6, Section 2 of the Texas Constitution states:

THE TEXAS CONSTITUTION ARTICLE 6. SUFFRAGE

Does the above say citizen proof is not required? I read it as you need to be a citizen to vote.

Of course you need to be a citizen to vote legally. That's not the question.

The question was whether you must prove citizenship when you register to vote in Texas.

The answer: no, you don't.

Texas did require proof in certain counties for a while, and stopped after it became obvious it wouldn't survive in the courts.

 

[Glockster30]

Of course you need to be a citizen to vote legally. That's not the question.

The question was whether you must prove citizenship when you register to vote in Texas.

The answer: no, you don't.

Texas did require proof in certain counties for a while, and stopped after it became obvious it wouldn't survive in the courts.

You originally stated:

"... but Texas does not require proof of citizenship to vote."

Under Section 13.001 of the Texas Election Code1, to be eligible to register to vote2 in Texas, a person must:

1. Be 18 years or older on election day,
2. Be a United States citizen,
3. Be a resident of the county where the application is submitted,
4. Not be finally convicted of a felony or, if so, have completed the terms of the jail sentence, probation or parole, and
5. Have not been declared by a court exercising probate jurisdiction to be either totally mentally incapacitated or partially mentally incapacitated without the right to vote.

Unless it's been removed or altered, under Section 13.001 of the Texas Election Code1, to be eligible to register to vote in Texas, a person must be a US citizen.:

1. Be 18 years or older on election day,
2. Be a United States citizen,
3. Be a resident of the county where the application is submitted,
4. Not be finally convicted of a felony or, if so, have completed the terms of the jail sentence, probation or parole, and
5. Have not been declared by a court exercising probate jurisdiction to be either totally mentally incapacitated or partially mentally incapacitated without the right to vote.

This clearly contradicts what you are stating, do I'm done with this!

Voter Registration

 

[M1911]

You originally stated:




Unless it's been removed or altered, under Section 13.001 of the Texas Election Code1, to be eligible to register to vote in Texas, a person must be a US citizen.:

1. Be 18 years or older on election day,
2. Be a United States citizen,
3. Be a resident of the county where the application is submitted,
4. Not be finally convicted of a felony or, if so, have completed the terms of the jail sentence, probation or parole, and
5. Have not been declared by a court exercising probate jurisdiction to be either totally mentally incapacitated or partially mentally incapacitated without the right to vote.

This clearly contradicts what you are stating, do I'm done with this!

Voter Registration

While Texas law requires that you be a citizen to register to vote, what he is pointing out is that Texas does not appear to require you to show proof of citizenship when you register.

Yes, you must be a citizen but Texas doesn’t require you to prove that.

 

[Glockster30]

While Texas law requires that you be a citizen to register to vote, what he is pointing out is that Texas does not appear to require you to show proof of citizenship when you register.

Yes, you must be a citizen but Texas doesn’t require you to prove that.

I still have to disagree somewhat with him. When filling out the voter registration form, it asks if you are a US citizen (yes or no) in addition to under penalties of perjury it states that if a person lies, they are subject to some possible stiff fines and potentially a year in prison. What I don't know is what happens if a person answers no wrt to the "are you a US citizen question." Since it doesn't straight out ask for a birth certificate, I think that we're splitting hairs here if this is what he means. Although it does ask for the last 4 digits of your SS#.

Voter Registration Application​

En Español
Important: You must know your county of residence in order to fill out the form which begins on this screen.

• Before going forward, you can find out if you are already registered.
• The application form will appear after you answer the question(s) below.

Are you a United States Citizen?YesNo
Will you be 18 years of age on or before election day?YesNo
Application Type:NewChangeReplacementAre you interested in serving as an election worker?YesNoApplicant Information

First Name:	Middle Name (if any):	Last Name (Include suffix if any (Jr, Sr, III)):	Former Name: (if any)
Date of Birth: (mm/dd/yyyy)	Gender (optional) Select... Male Female	Telephone Number, Include Area Code: (Optional)
Texas Driver's License No. or Texas Personal I.D. No. (Issued by the Department of Public Safety):
If no Texas Driver's License or Texas Personal Identification, give last 4 digits of your Social Security Number: XXX-XX-
I have not been issued a Texas Driver's License/Personal Identification Number or Social Security Number

Residence Address: Street Address and Apartment Number. If none, describe where you live.(Do not include P.O. Box, Rural Rt. or Business Address)

County: Select... ANDERSON ANDREWS ANGELINA ARANSAS ARCHER ARMSTRONG ATASCOSA AUSTIN BAILEY BANDERA BASTROP BAYLOR BEE BELL BEXAR BLANCO BORDEN BOSQUE BOWIE BRAZORIA BRAZOS BREWSTER BRISCOE BROOKS BROWN BURLESON BURNET CALDWELL CALHOUN CALLAHAN CAMERON CAMP CARSON CASS CASTRO CHAMBERS CHEROKEE CHILDRESS CLAY COCHRAN COKE COLEMAN COLLIN COLLINGSWORTH COLORADO COMAL COMANCHE CONCHO COOKE CORYELL COTTLE CRANE CROCKETT CROSBY CULBERSON DALLAM DALLAS DAWSON DEAF SMITH DELTA DENTON DEWITT DICKENS DIMMIT DONLEY DUVAL EASTLAND ECTOR EDWARDS EL PASO ELLIS ERATH FALLS FANNIN FAYETTE FISHER FLOYD FOARD FORT BEND FRANKLIN FREESTONE FRIO GAINES GALVESTON GARZA GILLESPIE GLASSCOCK GOLIAD GONZALES GRAY GRAYSON GREGG GRIMES GUADALUPE HALE HALL HAMILTON HANSFORD HARDEMAN HARDIN HARRIS HARRISON HARTLEY HASKELL HAYS HEMPHILL HENDERSON HIDALGO HILL HOCKLEY HOOD HOPKINS HOUSTON HOWARD HUDSPETH HUNT HUTCHINSON IRION JACK JACKSON JASPER JEFF DAVIS JEFFERSON JIM HOGG JIM WELLS JOHNSON JONES KARNES KAUFMAN KENDALL KENEDY KENT KERR KIMBLE KING KINNEY KLEBERG KNOX LAMAR LAMB LAMPASAS LASALLE LAVACA LEE LEON LIBERTY LIMESTONE LIPSCOMB LIVE OAK LLANO LOVING LUBBOCK LYNN MADISON MARION MARTIN MASON MATAGORDA MAVERICK MCCULLOCH MCLENNAN MCMULLEN MEDINA MENARD MIDLAND MILAM MILLS MITCHELL MONTAGUE MONTGOMERY MOORE MORRIS MOTLEY NACOGDOCHES NAVARRO NEWTON NOLAN NUECES OCHILTREE OLDHAM ORANGE PALOPINTO PANOLA PARKER PARMER PECOS POLK POTTER PRESIDIO RAINS RANDALL REAGAN REAL RED RIVER REEVES REFUGIO ROBERTS ROBERTSON ROCKWALL RUNNELS RUSK SABINE SAN AUGUSTINE SAN JACINTO SAN PATRICIO SAN SABA SCHLEICHER SCURRY SHACKELFORD SHELBY SHERMAN SMITH SOMERVELL STARR STEPHENS STERLING STONEWALL SUTTON SWISHER TARRANT TAYLOR TERRELL TERRY THROCKMORTON TITUS TOM GREEN TRAVIS TRINITY TYLER UPSHUR UPTON UVALDE VAL VERDE VAN ZANDT VICTORIA WALKER WALLER WARD WASHINGTON WEBB WHARTON WHEELER WICHITA WILBARGER WILLACY WILLIAMSON WILSON WINKLER WISE WOOD YOAKUM YOUNG ZAPATA ZAVALA	Address:	City:
State:	Zip:
City and County of Former Residence in Texas:

Mailing Address: Street Address and Apartment Number. (If mail cannot be delivered
to your residence address)

Address:

City:

State:

Zip:

I understand that giving false information to procure a voter registration is perjury, and a crime under state and federal law. Conviction of this crime may result in imprisonment up to one year in jail, a fine up to $4,000, or both. Please read all three statements to affirm before signing.

• I am a resident of this county and a U.S. Citizen;
• I have not been finally convicted of a felony, or if a felon, I have completed all of my punishment including any term of incarceration, parole, supervision, period of probation, or I have been pardoned; and
• I have not been determined by a final judgment of a court exercising probate jurisdiction to be totally mentally incapacitated or partially mentally incapacitated without the right to vote.

Please verify your data is correct before you "Submit."

 

[M1911]

I still have to disagree somewhat with him. When filling out the voter registration form, it asks if you are a US citizen (yes or no) in addition to under penalties of perjury it states that if a person lies, they are subject to some possible stiff fines and potentially a year in prison. What I don't know is what happens if a person answers no wrt to the "are you a US citizen question." Since it doesn't straight out ask for a birth certificate, I think that we're splitting hairs here if this is what he means. Although it does ask for the last 4 digits of your SS#.

Asking if you are a US citizen (even under threat of perjury) is different than requiring proof of citizenship. One requires that you assert that you are a citizen; the other requires that you present a document (e.g., birth certificate, passport, etc.) that proves you are a citizen. They are both trying to get to the same place, but they aren’t the same. That is the distinction that he was making.

 

[Glockster30]

I got interrupted and didn't finish my response. While the last 4 digits of your SS# doesn't state you are a US citizen, it is another confirmation that you are who you say you are. Even the MA Voter registration form doesn't state that you need to show proof that you are a US citizen when registering, but you are still signing under even stiffer penalties. Consequently, I'm not sure why he even made his original statement that sounded like any schmuck could vote.

https://www.sec.state.ma.us/divisions/elections/download/voter-registration-forms/voter-registration_English.pdf

 

[KBCraig]

I got interrupted and didn't finish my response. While the last 4 digits of your SS# doesn't state you are a US citizen, it is another confirmation that you are who you say you are.

Having a SSN doesn't prove citizenship, though. Everyone who legally works in the US has a SSN, even if they're a lawful permanent resident (non-citizen green card holder) or non-resident like a J1 visa holder.

Thanks @M1911 for understanding what I said, which isn't difficult to understand (except for some): being legally qualified to vote, and proving that you are, are two different things.

The law says you have to be a citizen to vote. It doesn't require that you prove that you are.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

I still have to disagree somewhat with him. When filling out the voter registration form, it asks if you are a US citizen (yes or no) in addition to under penalties of perjury it states that if a person lies, they are subject to some possible stiff fines and potentially a year in prison. What I don't know is what happens if a person answers no wrt to the "are you a US citizen question." Since it doesn't straight out ask for a birth certificate, I think that we're splitting hairs here if this is what he means. Although it does ask for the last 4 digits of your SS#.

It is similar to the difference between the police running a criminal record check when you apply for an LTC vs. them asking you to sign under penalty of perjury stating you do not have a record.
(actually, they do the 2nd but, unlike TX voting, they require proof as well)

 

[Glockster30]

Having a SSN doesn't prove citizenship, though. Everyone who legally works in the US has a SSN, even if they're a lawful permanent resident (non-citizen green card holder) or non-resident like a J1 visa holder.

I already stated that in post #106. Thanks for repeating it though.

Thanks @M1911 for understanding what I said, which isn't difficult to understand (except for some): being legally qualified to vote, and proving that you are, are two different things.

The law says you have to be a citizen to vote. It doesn't require that you prove that you are.

Maybe if you were more clear about what you originally stated, it would have been understood better.

 

[peterk123]

Because the law says it remains valid until expiration. As long as you report the move within 30 days as required by law, you’re fine.

I don't know why, but I thoroughly enjoyed not telling massachusetts that I moved.

 

[G4Y4HK]

MA cucks you harder than CT. With a CT license, when you move out of state to a free state, your CT LTC just becomes a non resident one. You just have to notify them and change your address in the online portal within 48 hours.

 

[Garys]

I did just to see what happens. I'm mulling over whether or not to send a copy to chief down here.

I don't know why, but I thoroughly enjoyed not telling massachusetts that I moved.

 

[KBCraig]

Maybe if you were more clear about what you originally stated, it would have been understood better.

Please tell me what was unclear:

You have to provide proof of residence, but Texas does not require proof of citizenship to vote.

 

[OMM 0000]

On the website where you file EFA10s, you can GENERATE FIREARMS LICENSE VALIDATION. It lets you print out a page that says for the next 24 hours that license is "valid". After I moved to VT, every time I went back to MA I printed one out and brought it with me, just in case. My LTC expired in July on my birthday, so it was valid for about a year after we moved.

Just tried this, very cool! Has my NH address. Also doesn’t mention restrictions.

Note, when I sent my letters I said I am moving to NH. Didn’t specify address - F them. Presumably they got that from my DL.

I also would have expected my NR LTC to trigger the resident to expire. Guess not.

 

[Glockster30]

Please tell me what was unclear:

I already told you why. Now, go away!

 

[M1911]

That’s enough.

 

[Kicker96FS]

How did this turn from a mass LTC to NH question to voting in Texas?
Who cares what the price of bacon in Chicago is?

 

[gerrycaruso]

Being angry all the time is too much work. The phrase "lighten up Francis" comes to mind.

 

[Garys]

You've been on NES since early 2009 and you have to ask that?

How did this turn from a mass LTC to NH question to voting in Texas?
Who cares what the price of bacon in Chicago is?

 

[Garys]

FWIW FRB received my change of address on Monday. I verified my license using the EFA10 portal and it shows as valid with my TX address. I know that the PD received the letter Saturday.

Only question now is if they will mail me a new LTC with my TX address.

Stay tuned.