Updated: Is it Possible to Re-apply for LTC in another city MA?

[Agnotology]

Best of luck on Dedham.

 

[BigTimber]

All well and good, but you were arrested and then you said you weren’t. That is a lie. You do understand that right?

It’s amazing how many people do mental gymnastics with that. Being into firearms for 30 years I’ve had a lot of folks approach me and ask me about getting their license. My first question is always have you ever been arrested? A few of them have said yes but I’m planning on saying no because I was told this, I was told that, it was in another state, it was 20 years ago, I got a QWOF, I was a minor...my reply is always the same, don’t do that, no matter what you’ve heard they will know.

 

[Spartan65]

Best of luck on Dedham.

For real, bad town.

 

[FPrice]

This thread has...

 

[milktree]

Question #4 trips up a lot of people. When I applied for my LTC I believe it read "have you ever been charged with a felony?".
I had indeed been charged with a "felony" many years ago, I went to court, paid a fine, and the charges were dismissed. Had I fought the charges and been convicted I could have served up to a year in jail which constitutes a felony.

Are you sure about that? A felony has to be named as a felony, it's not just "over xxx in jail"

There are misdemeanors that have longer potential sentences, like first time DUI in Mass. It's a misdemeanor, but because the federal prohibited person statute says "a felony, or other crime with a potential penalty of over two years..." you'd be a prohibited person even without an actual felony. Crap like this in Mass. is where the term "misdefelony" comes from.

 

[nstassel]

Had I fought the charges and been convicted I could have served up to a year in jail which constitutes a felony.

This is absolutely not the definition of a felony in Massachusetts. Any crime for which a may be sentenced to State Prison is a felony. All other crimes are misdemeanors.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

However - every weapons permit application I've filled out since has had two questions -
1) Have you ever been arrested?
2) Has your weapons permit in this state or any other ever been denied or revoked? If so, why?

Some non-Massachusetts applications use a wording that does not require an affirmative answer to arrests for which there is no conviction or pending charge. But in MA, non-conviction/dismissed or not guilty, still reportable.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

This is absolutely not the definition of a felony in Massachusetts. Any crime for which a may be sentenced to State Prison is a felony. All other cringes are misdemeanors.

Except for misdafelonies, where the quicky federal definition is 18 USC 922 applies.

 

[Chevy 2 65]

Two words: Legal Counsel.

You will have to answer YES to the "ever been denied" question. This is not always an obstacle, but you are in a tough spot since you were denied by a MA chief for cause, and you will be asking the new chief to go against a decision by a member of the brotherhood - VERY difficult.



You need a gun attorney like Langer, Tassel or Guida. If the attorney doesn't understand the term "misdafelony" (not the issue in your case) you are in the wrong office.

If there was an expungement under the law of the state in which you were arrested (unlikely since you mentioned nofile, but not expungement) you answer may have been legally truthful under the doctrine of "legal fiction". An expungement likely did not happen, since the record was still there, and expungements don't just happen without an application by the arrestee or convict, and are only available in some states/circumstances.

This you need a gun attorney like Langer, Tassel or Guida and util complete

 

[HorizontalHunter]

If this question were part of the application now, you would also face a decline

As @allen-1 said above. The words matter. You have said that your Application was rejected, declined, and denied. These words have different meanings when it comes to this. If you were denied you will now have to report that denial on every firearms permit going forward in any state in the country where you want/need

 

[Rob Boudrie]

As @allen-1 said above. The words matter. You have said that your Application was rejected, declined, and denied. These words have different meanings when it comes to this. If you were denied you will now have to report that denial on every firearms permit going forward in any state in the country where you want/need

Inaccurate.

Not all states ask if you have had a permit denied or revoked. Furthermore, some states don't ask "have you been arrested" but about convictions and pending charges. I've even seen questions like "have you been convicted of two or more .... offenses within the past N years". The wording on some state's firearms permit applications seems designed to not compel the applicant to disclose record information that is now a disqualifier, but could be considered prejudicial. This tends to be more common in states where due process for gun owners is a thing.

 

[robjax]

Post #2 said all that needed to be said. That’s the best advice you’re gonna get and most likely your only chance of having any success in your endeavor.

 

[Matt_SERE]

Inaccurate.

Not all states ask if you have had a permit denied or revoked. Furthermore, some states don't ask "have you been arrested" but about convictions and pending charges. I've even seen questions like "have you been convicted of two or more .... offenses within the past N years". The wording on some state's firearms permit applications seems designed to not compel the applicant to disclose record information that is now a disqualifier, but could be considered prejudicial. This tends to be more common in states where due process for gun owners is a thing.

Have you ever heard of, or seen, any state ask about UCMJ arrests? Not separations/discharges. Military arrests?

 

[Broc]

gun owners are their own worst enemies. He misread the question or he forgot. Without even thinking for 5 seconds I just gave you 2 plausible reasons that he gave wrong info. But hey what the hell. Let's convict him of being a liar right here and now.

ETA there are other people here that have said that the question can be confusing. Are they liars too?
He even stated in the OP that he thought he didn't have to disclose it. Wouldn't a lie at least require that he knew he was hiding something he was supposed to disclose?

He didn't forget because he told us he didn't forget. The question is pretty clear.

I feel bad for the OP, but the only way to make the question clearer is to break it into two questions (the way it should be).

Screenshot of the Dedham application:


Anyway, this is probably not very hard for a good attorney to clean.

 

[fred6052000]

As @allen-1 said above. The words matter. You have said that your Application was rejected, declined, and denied. These words have different meanings when it comes to this. If you were denied you will now have to report that denial on every firearms permit going forward in any state in the country where you want/need

 

[rogersmithiii]

Someone told me that reapply to Dedham (my new town that I moved) and see what they say. But this time I will answer "yes" and provide all the documents.

The initial application attempt is in the system. The second department is going to see the attempt, and either be pissed, or more concerned. It’s going to make the situation even worse.

First. Get an attorney who does firearms. You’re in deep shit, even if you don’t know it.

 

[fred6052000]

This is absolutely not the definition of a felony in Massachusetts. Any crime for which a may be sentenced to State Prison is a felony. All other crin

Mr. Tassel, I’ll contact you for my LTC issue. I’m waiting to receive the letter in my mailbox.

 

[556USER]

This tends to be more common in states where due process for gun owners is a thing.

Due process for gun owners. Now there's a novel idea. LOL

 

[not new guy]

It’s amazing how many people do mental gymnastics with that. Being into firearms for 30 years I’ve had a lot of folks approach me and ask me about getting their license. My first question is always have you ever been arrested? A few of them have said yes but I’m planning on saying no because I was told this, I was told that, it was in another state, it was 20 years ago, I got a QWOF, I was a minor...my reply is always the same, don’t do that, no matter what you’ve heard they will know.

I think the issue stems from the notion that you’re effectively trying to sell yourself as responsible and worthy of having guns to someone with discretion to deny you for whatever they feel like. The application also asks for details about the situation such as dates, something that might not be at hand. That helps the “I can pretend that didn’t happen because they told me I could pretend it never happened” people rationalize it.

 

[Joeldiaz]

Two words: Legal Counsel.

You will have to answer YES to the "ever been denied" question.

Quick question about that, unrelated to OP’s situation: what if someone was previously denied an LTC due to suitability, but then they successfully appealed that denial and the PD was forced to issue the LTC. Does the applicant still have to answer yes to that question of denial? Or does it not count since the denial was reversed?

 

[Joeldiaz]

Honesty is the best policy. I used to work in Dedham and heard the Chief of Police is a fair guy. If I recall in my town I never met with the C.O.P both times I renewed my LTC. He had another member of the police force handle the licensing and renewals as far as I could see. If you live in Dedham you should be fine if you fill out the application right this time and explain your situation at the bottom of the page along with any documentation you may have. https://www.dedham-ma.gov/departments/police/firearms-licensing

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsIpGh3HoXg

The attorney in that video is the guy I used for my LTC denial. 10/10 would use again

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Quick question about that, unrelated to OP’s situation: what if someone was previously denied an LTC due to suitability, but then they successfully appealed that denial and the PD was forced to issue the LTC. Does the applicant still have to answer yes to that question of denial? Or does it not count since the denial was reversed?

Yes to have to answer.

Clever word games and rationalizations don't work in this case, nor is there the concept of "does not count". It is up to the licensing officer, not the applicant, to decide if it "counts".

The only thing that should work is a "legal fiction" (a term of art, not something you simply assert) and getting the licensing officer to actually understand that concept can be much harder than it should be.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

I think the issue stems from the notion that you’re effectively trying to sell yourself as responsible and worthy of having guns to someone with discretion to deny you for whatever they feel like. The application also asks for details about the situation such as dates, something that might not be at hand. That helps the “I can pretend that didn’t happen because they told me I could pretend it never happened” people rationalize it.

This is true in certain circumstances (the aforementioned "legal fiction" concept), but that is not triggered or established by someone telling you that it applies. There are very specific legal standards that establish a legal fiction; it is not something you argue into existence. Actual expungements of records (not dismissals, nolle pros, or acquital) often comes with the benefit of "legal fiction". But, if you try to use "legal fiction" (even when it is indeed the case) "good luck with that" comes to mind.

 

[fred6052000]

My question was: If my LTC declined in town (x) can I reapply in another town (y)? Before I get the decline letter from city x, I moved to city (y). Again, I know I did a mistake, but when I am going to reapply, I will answer “yes” and provide all the supported documents.

 

[HorizontalHunter]

Inaccurate.

Not all states ask if you have had a permit denied or revoked. Furthermore, some states don't ask "have you been arrested" but about convictions and pending charges. I've even seen questions like "have you been convicted of two or more .... offenses within the past N years". The wording on some state's firearms permit applications seems designed to not compel the applicant to disclose record information that is now a disqualifier, but could be considered prejudicial. This tends to be more common in states where due process for gun owners is a thing.

Thank you for the correction.

 

[allen-1]

Inaccurate.

Not all states ask if you have had a permit denied or revoked. Furthermore, some states don't ask "have you been arrested" but about convictions and pending charges. I've even seen questions like "have you been convicted of two or more .... offenses within the past N years". The wording on some state's firearms permit applications seems designed to not compel the applicant to disclose record information that is now a disqualifier, but could be considered prejudicial. This tends to be more common in states where due process for gun owners is a thing.

You're correct with "not all"; some do.

Sampling from some of the states I have permits for.


CT


CT


FL


NH

 

[42!]

OP call a GOOD lawyer. You do not want a denial on your record if it can be helped, the reason doesn't matter. It will haunt you for the rest of your life. Even if you're told it doesn't matter, it DOES. Even if you move. It may be decades later, but it will come back at you.

 

[drgrant]

So any innacurate info a person provides is a lie? Jesus.

View: https://youtu.be/vn_PSJsl0LQ?si=8ZaWBMF4GT7iAL4E

 

[drgrant]

OP call a GOOD lawyer. You do not want a denial on your record if it can be helped, the reason doesn't matter. It will haunt you for the rest of your life. Even if you're told it doesn't matter, it DOES. Even if you move. It may be decades later, but it will come back at you.

It's way too late for that. However he probably still has a chance to actually get his license if he has counsel.

I think the issue stems from the notion that you’re effectively trying to sell yourself as responsible and worthy of having guns to someone with discretion to deny you for whatever they feel like. The application also asks for details about the situation such as dates, something that might not be at hand. That helps the “I can pretend that didn’t happen because they told me I could pretend it never happened” people rationalize it.

Actually it's a lot simpler than that it's not even because they were told that... it's because they've deluded themselves into believing that it doesn't matter. I'm trying hard to remember the term but it's basically the same type of shitlogic that people use upstairs when they say shit like "I was cleaning the gun when it just went off". Nobody wants to take responsibility or ownership for doing something embarrassing or f***ing stupid..... so they make excuses or try to downplay the seriousness, to the point of engaging in self delusion about it.

 

[CATI]

My question was: If my LTC declined in town (x) can I reapply in another town (y)? Before I get the decline letter from city x, I moved to city (y). Again, I know I did a mistake, but when I am going to reapply, I will answer “yes” and provide all the supported documents.

The answer to this is yes
You can apply
You can apply 1000 times
You can apply in cities you have never been to
You will just get denied over and over. You need to have an attorney look into what happened and write your application and explanation for your arrest