MA Handgun Compliance Q+A Thread (new)

[DCCJoe]

Hi, I'm now to this site and I live in MA and have a Class A LC LTC. If I understand you correctly, I can own a CZ 75 SP-01 in MA, I just can't purchase one in MA. So if I purchase one in another state I can bring it into MA and register it, correct?

Also, you mentioned something about "MA AWB"? What is AWB and where can I find information on it.

 

[drgrant]

Hi, I'm now to this site and I live in MA and have a Class A LC LTC. If I understand you correctly, I can own a CZ 75 SP-01 in MA, I just can't purchase one in MA. So if I purchase one in another state I can bring it into MA and register it, correct?

Also, you mentioned something about "MA AWB"? What is AWB and where can I find information on it.

You can puchase one in MA no problem on you. Whether a dealer will transfer/sell you one is another story. Read the faq. All this crap is covered on the first page of this thread.

 

[WokDisWey]

If I were to buy a gun that is not on a MA compliant list from a shop in MA, would it be my problem if they were to specify this in writing on their website? "It is the responsibility of the customer to know and be in compliance with all applicable federal, state, local laws and limitations related to the purchase of magazines and ammunition in the locality in which the customer resides."? Would like to know because the owner is willing to sell it and I specified that I am a MA resident.

Thanks in advance. I read through all 61 pages. Great info!

 

[soam]

If I were to buy a gun that is not on a MA compliant list from a shop in MA, would it be my problem if they were to specify this in writing on their website? "It is the responsibility of the customer to know and be in compliance with all applicable federal, state, local laws and limitations related to the purchase of magazines and ammunition in the locality in which the customer resides."? Would like to know because the owner is willing to sell it and I specified that I am a MA resident.

It is not your problem. Handgun compliance only applies to dealers. All you need to concern yourself with is issues like AWB legality (magazines over 10 round capacity).

 

[Len-2A Training]

If I were to buy a gun that is not on a MA compliant list from a shop in MA, would it be my problem if they were to specify this in writing on their website? "It is the responsibility of the customer to know and be in compliance with all applicable federal, state, local laws and limitations related to the purchase of magazines and ammunition in the locality in which the customer resides."? Would like to know because the owner is willing to sell it and I specified that I am a MA resident.

That statement is true. If you buy a post-ban large-capacity mag or AW from ANYONE, the jail sentence is all yours (theirs too for selling it to you).

As for guns that don't fall into the AW category, not your problem, enjoy and do NOT mention where you got it to anyone or post it anywhere.

 

[drgrant]

If I were to buy a gun that is not on a MA compliant list from a shop in MA, would it be my problem if they were to specify this in writing on their website? "It is the responsibility of the customer to know and be in compliance with all applicable federal, state, local laws and limitations related to the purchase of magazines and ammunition in the locality in which the customer resides."? Would like to know because the owner is willing to sell it and I specified that I am a MA resident.

No, not unless they are selling you something that is actually illegal (like a new large cap mag, gun banned by the AW ban, etc.) This doesn't apply with any common handgun and mags that hold 10 rounds or less.

-Mike

 

[WokDisWey]

It is not your problem. Handgun compliance only applies to dealers. All you need to concern yourself with is issues like AWB legality (magazines over 10 round capacity).

It comes with 10 round mags. That what I thought from reading this thread but the disclaimer on their website made me hesitate. Thanks for the quick response.

 

[user151]

You can not buy a handgun in a private sale from a resident of a different state. That would be a federal felony. If you want to buy a handgun from am resident of a different state, it must go through a dealer in your state of residence (MA).........

Correct as an answer to the specific circumstances -- but as a general proposition is it not true that you can buy a handgun FTF out of state if it is a C&R and you have a type 3 FFL?

 

[browncoat]

Correct as an answer to the specific circumstances -- but as a general proposition is it not true that you can buy a handgun FTF out of state if it is a C&R and you have a type 3 FFL?

Under federal law, a C&R buying a handgun out of state isn't considered a FTF transaction, it is considered a purchase on the FFL.

 

[user151]

Might be considered a distinction without a difference, but you are correct since the FFL-03 must keep a record.

 

[mrbeal]

That statement is true. If you buy a post-ban large-capacity mag or AW from ANYONE, the jail sentence is all yours (theirs too for selling it to you).

As for guns that don't fall into the AW category, not your problem, enjoy and do NOT mention where you got it to anyone or post it anywhere.

No, not unless they are selling you something that is actually illegal (like a new large cap mag, gun banned by the AW ban, etc.) This doesn't apply with any common handgun and mags that hold 10 rounds or less.

-Mike

Hi, first post... hope I'm not stepping on toes or doing something that's going to get me into trouble here...
I am very new to this, I actually just signed up for my safety class today and will be (hopefully) putting in my Class A application soon.

I have wanted a handgun for years, 25 or more years. I've always loved the Glock... loved the look, the feel.. it's just a pretty gun. I've been reading a LOT today about the rules and regulations in MA and have to say it can be a little confusing (and a lot ridiculous). A LOT of what I read lead me to believe that you cannot buy a new Glock in MA but there are several models on the "approved" list. Like I said, confusing.
The 2 quotes above are my real question and the purpose of this post... large capacity mag - from the 2 posts that I quoted - basically says it's illegal to buy or own them unless they are from pre AWB. However, the Class A is specifically needed for a large capacity mag and I know as a fact that a handgun was purchased new from a dealer just before Christmas with a large capacity mag. So what is it that I'm missing in this part of the law? Am I just misinterpreting what I thought a "large capacity" mag is? I thought it was 11 or more rounds capacity...
I miss Illinois in the '90's... an FID card gave you the right to purchase a handgun AND CARRY IT (just not concealed). Why does MA have to be so difficult?? I have so much to learn...

 

[browncoat]

Hi, first post... hope I'm not stepping on toes or doing something that's going to get me into trouble here...
I am very new to this, I actually just signed up for my safety class today and will be (hopefully) putting in my Class A application soon.

I have wanted a handgun for years, 25 or more years. I've always loved the Glock... loved the look, the feel.. it's just a pretty gun. I've been reading a LOT today about the rules and regulations in MA and have to say it can be a little confusing (and a lot ridiculous). A LOT of what I read lead me to believe that you cannot buy a new Glock in MA but there are several models on the "approved" list. Like I said, confusing.
The 2 quotes above are my real question and the purpose of this post... large capacity mag - from the 2 posts that I quoted - basically says it's illegal to buy or own them unless they are from pre AWB. However, the Class A is specifically needed for a large capacity mag and I know as a fact that a handgun was purchased new from a dealer just before Christmas with a large capacity mag. So what is it that I'm missing in this part of the law? Am I just misinterpreting what I thought a "large capacity" mag is? I thought it was 11 or more rounds capacity...
I miss Illinois in the '90's... an FID card gave you the right to purchase a handgun AND CARRY IT (just not concealed). Why does MA have to be so difficult?? I have so much to learn...

Law enforcement have been excluded from needing to comply with the ban by the recent law. So there are two legal options. 1 The high capacity mag sold with the gun was pre ban. 2 the purchaser was law enforcement or retired law enforcement.

 

[soam]

Hi, first post... hope I'm not stepping on toes or doing something that's going to get me into trouble here...
I am very new to this, I actually just signed up for my safety class today and will be (hopefully) putting in my Class A application soon.

I have wanted a handgun for years, 25 or more years. I've always loved the Glock... loved the look, the feel.. it's just a pretty gun. I've been reading a LOT today about the rules and regulations in MA and have to say it can be a little confusing (and a lot ridiculous). A LOT of what I read lead me to believe that you cannot buy a new Glock in MA but there are several models on the "approved" list. Like I said, confusing.
The 2 quotes above are my real question and the purpose of this post... large capacity mag - from the 2 posts that I quoted - basically says it's illegal to buy or own them unless they are from pre AWB. However, the Class A is specifically needed for a large capacity mag and I know as a fact that a handgun was purchased new from a dealer just before Christmas with a large capacity mag. So what is it that I'm missing in this part of the law? Am I just misinterpreting what I thought a "large capacity" mag is? I thought it was 11 or more rounds capacity...
I miss Illinois in the '90's... an FID card gave you the right to purchase a handgun AND CARRY IT (just not concealed). Why does MA have to be so difficult?? I have so much to learn...

The confusion is normal.

Firstly, as is pointed out in this thread the "Approved Firearms Roster" is only one of the two regulatory hurdles that needs to be dealt with for dealers to sell/transfer a particular model of handgun. The Attorney General's "consumer protection" regulations are the other one, and that's the one that causes the issue. You can legally possess one, but most dealers will not sell or transfer them due to the risk of hefty fines.

The "Large Capacity" designation on your LTC means you can possess "large capacity" firearms, which means any firearm capable of accepting large capacity magazines, whether or not you actually have any large capacity magazines.

This means that relatively recent models like the Smith & Wesson M&P 9 are designated "large capacity" even though possession of any large capacity magazines for it is illegal. The M&P was introduced in 2005, so all magazines for it were made well after the September 1994 cutoff for pre-ban magazines.

Your LTC does allow you to possess pre-ban large cap magazines, so if you want a capacity over 10 rounds you have to get a pistol for which pre-ban magazines exist. Common models include the various flavors of Glocks, Sigs, and the Beretta 92 series.

 

[mrbeal]

The confusion is normal.

Firstly, as is pointed out in this thread the "Approved Firearms Roster" is only one of the two regulatory hurdles that needs to be dealt with for dealers to sell/transfer a particular model of handgun. The Attorney General's "consumer protection" regulations are the other one, and that's the one that causes the issue. You can legally possess one, but most dealers will not sell or transfer them due to the risk of hefty fines.

The "Large Capacity" designation on your LTC means you can possess "large capacity" firearms, which means any firearm capable of accepting large capacity magazines, whether or not you actually have any large capacity magazines.

This means that relatively recent models like the Smith & Wesson M&P 9 are designated "large capacity" even though possession of any large capacity magazines for it is illegal. The M&P was introduced in 2005, so all magazines for it were made well after the September 1994 cutoff for pre-ban magazines.

Your LTC does allow you to possess pre-ban large cap magazines, so if you want a capacity over 10 rounds you have to get a pistol for which pre-ban magazines exist. Common models include the various flavors of Glocks, Sigs, and the Beretta 92 series.

And that is the exact model my ex got. Came with (I believe) 10 round and extended 15/16 round mags. I suppose, technically, it was not purchased by her but it is now LEGALLY in her possession. (A small amount of background, she is technically LE but at the same time she isn't. She works for the PD but hasn't been to the academy yet and does NOT have a badge BUT she does LEGALLY own the gun).
So I guess my question is this... Glock as a for instance, since it's the one I'm pretty sure I want, has new models that may or may not be able to be purchased in MA (I'm still fuzzy on that) even though they are "on the list" as "acceptable" large capacity guns
( http://www.mass.gov/eopss/docs/chsb/firearms/approvedfirearmsroster09-2014.pdf ) ,you cannot purchase one new that comes more than a 10 round mag? But you can buy a compatible large capacity mag from before the ban? And really, this helps the grand scheme of things how???

 

[M1911]

And that is the exact model my ex got. Came with (I believe) 10 round and extended 15/16 round mags. I suppose, technically, it was not purchased by her but it is now LEGALLY in her possession. (A small amount of background, she is technically LE but at the same time she isn't. She works for the PD but hasn't been to the academy yet and does NOT have a badge BUT she does LEGALLY own the gun).
So I guess my question is this... Glock as a for instance, since it's the one I'm pretty sure I want, has new models that may or may not be able to be purchased in MA (I'm still fuzzy on that) even though they are "on the list" as "acceptable" large capacity guns
( http://www.mass.gov/eopss/docs/chsb/firearms/approvedfirearmsroster09-2014.pdf ) ,you cannot purchase one new that comes more than a 10 round mag? But you can buy a compatible large capacity mag from before the ban? And really, this helps the grand scheme of things how???

1) You can purchase any handgun, whether it is on the roster or not, whether it meets the AG's consumer protections or not.

2) The Approved Roster and AG's regulations govern what a dealer can sell, not what you can buy. That is, if a dealer sells you a handgun that is not on the roster or does not meet the AG's requirements, it is their legal problem, not yours -- you did not break the law, the dealer broke the law).

3) You can not purchase OR possess a post-ban large capacity magazine. That is a felony. Yes, some dealers have sold post-ban large capacity magazines to people. Whether they didn't know it was post-ban or didn't understand the law or didn't give a crap doesn't matter. Possessing a handgun that is not on the roster is legal; possessing a post-ban large capacity magazine is a felony.

4) The reason you can possess a pre-ban large capacity magazine but not a post-ban magazine is because that is how the law was written. The reason the law was written that way is because if the government makes your lawfully owned property illegal, that is a taking and they would have to pay for it. The state of MA didn't want to spend millions of dollars buying people's pre-ban magazines.

5) Don't try to look for logic in the law - it isn't there to be found.

 

[soam]

Yup, M1911 summed it up pretty succinctly. If you want a Glock, buy a Glock. If you find a dealer that will sell a new one to you, make sure it comes with 10 round magazines, and don't mention the name of the dealer on here. If people go around bragging about how Dealer X sold them a shiny new Glock, eventually the AG's office will catch wind of it and go after them. Once you have your shiny new Glock, you can buy pre-ban magazines for it.

Another option is to buy one in a private face-to-face sale with another LTC holder. Plenty of Glocks are listed in the Classifieds here on NES, so if you keep your eyes open you can probably snag one.

 

[M1911]

You really should carefully read the statutes and the AG's consumer protection regulations. For example, if you read the consumer protection regulations 940 CMR 16, you'll see that it governs what dealers can sell. It has language like:

It shall be an unfair or deceptive practice for a handgun-purveyor to transfer or offer to
transfer to any customer located within the Commonwealth any handgun on which the serial .
number has been placed solely in a location on the handgun that results in the number's
susceptibility to eradication.

It shall be an unfair or deceptive practice for a handgun-purveyor to transfer or offer to
transfer to any customer located within the Commonwealth any make and model of handgun
that:

It shall be an unfair or deceptive practice for a handgun-purveyor to transfer or offer to
transfer to any customer located within the Commonwealth any handgun which does not contain
a mechanism which effectively precludes an average five year old child from operating the
handgun

It governs what dealers can sell, not what you can purchase or possess. Full text here: http://www.mass.gov/ago/docs/regulations/940-cmr-16-00.pdf

The consumer protection statutes have similar language.

Post-ban large capacity magazines, on the other hand, are a whole different ballgame -- possession of those is a felony.

 

[mrbeal]

5) Don't try to look for logic in the law - it isn't there to be found

^^^ Why lawyers make so much money. Creative interpretation of law is how good lawyers get great. Loopholes are to be found everywhere, that's why the laws are written the way they are.

Speaking of Glock, I'll have to assume that they either don't want to try to pass the AG's tests or can't pass the tests... now there's a gun show coming to Plymouth soon, can a Glock (and I mean a new OR used one) be sold at the gun show? The show is out of New York and I'm still trying to find some sort of loophole other than buying something that's probably overpriced because you can't buy it here. I'm starting to lose my drive to get a Glock, I've found a couple really nice looking alternatives for brand new guns and I'm not 100% sure I, as a novice, should be looking at something used.

 

[drgrant]

Speaking of Glock, I'll have to assume that they either don't want to try to pass the AG's tests or can't pass the tests... now there's a gun show coming to Plymouth soon, can a Glock (and I mean a new OR used one) be sold at the gun show? The show is out of New York and I'm still trying to find some sort of loophole other than buying something that's probably overpriced because you can't buy it here. I'm starting to lose my drive to get a Glock, I've found a couple really nice looking alternatives for brand new guns and I'm not 100% sure I, as a novice, should be looking at something used.

There is no loophole. (the law was designed intentionally to indemnify consumers, that's part of how they managed to squeak it into passing to begin with, indemnifying consumers/gun owners was used to try to placate fudds and the like from gettiing too agitated about it, and also to reduce the cost of implementation by millions of dollars. ) You're overthinking things, if a dealer wants to sell you something, and you have an LTC, you can legally buy it. Done. Not your problem. Just stay away from AWB issues (post ban large cap mags, etc. ) .

-Mike

 

[browncoat]

5) Don't try to look for logic in the law - it isn't there to be found

^^^ Why lawyers make so much money. Creative interpretation of law is how good lawyers get great. Loopholes are to be found everywhere, that's why the laws are written the way they are.

Speaking of Glock, I'll have to assume that they either don't want to try to pass the AG's tests or can't pass the tests... now there's a gun show coming to Plymouth soon, can a Glock (and I mean a new OR used one) be sold at the gun show? The show is out of New York and I'm still trying to find some sort of loophole other than buying something that's probably overpriced because you can't buy it here. I'm starting to lose my drive to get a Glock, I've found a couple really nice looking alternatives for brand new guns and I'm not 100% sure I, as a novice, should be looking at something used.

So the reason Glocks aren't currently "compliant" is because the AG said that they weren't compliant. There is an ongoing lawsuit against the AG: http://comm2a.org/index.php/55-projects/205-draper If you read up on the lawsuit, it is pretty clear that the AG has decided Glocks are not compliant simply because the AG doesn't want them sold here. There are gunshops that have Gen 2 and gen 3 glocks that are compliant, and there are other avenues by which people can get new glocks for non exorbitant prices, just be patient. There is no "gun show" loophole for compliance, so that's not an option.

 

[M1911]

There is no loophole.

You can buy a used Glock. Check the NES classifieds, there are always Glocks for sale.

And some dealers will sell new Glocks and most have some used Glocks in stock. Frankly, gun shows in MA suck. Don't waste your time.

 

[SigSlinger508]

Went to the gun show in Marlboro last weekend. There were plenty of dealers there from MA and NH selling new and definetely pre 94/98? Magazines. They had plenty of these and were selling them to enough people or showing them to enough people for sale that they coukdnt have all been leo. Here is my question; can i go to a gun show and buy these from a NH dealer or someone selling high(er) cap new magazines or will i be arrested or some shit if they are somehow discovered in my home car or on my person by LEO? They had so many I cant imagine they lig them there for maybe two LEO to buy them. Do they just not care because they dont think it will be enforced?

 

[szaino]

Went to the gun show in Marlboro last weekend. There were plenty of dealers there from MA and NH selling new and definetely pre 94/98? Magazines. They had plenty of these and were selling them to enough people or showing them to enough people for sale that they coukdnt have all been leo. Here is my question; can i go to a gun show and buy these from a NH dealer or someone selling high(er) cap new magazines or will i be arrested or some shit if they are somehow discovered in my home car or on my person by LEO? They had so many I cant imagine they lig them there for maybe two LEO to buy them. Do they just not care because they dont think it will be enforced?

As far as your liability is concerned, if you are a Mass resident, possession of a post ban hi capacity magazine is a felony in Mass. It doesn't matter where or how you got it. The law covers the "sale or possession", so the selling party also has exposure.

 

[drgrant]

Went to the gun show in Marlboro last weekend. There were plenty of dealers there from MA and NH selling new and definetely pre 94/98? Magazines. They had plenty of these and were selling them to enough people or showing them to enough people for sale that they coukdnt have all been leo. Here is my question; can i go to a gun show and buy these from a NH dealer or someone selling high(er) cap new magazines or will i be arrested or some shit if they are somehow discovered in my home car or on my person by LEO? They had so many I cant imagine they lig them there for maybe two LEO to buy them. Do they just not care because they dont think it will be enforced?

Like szaino says it is a felony but it's rarely enforced, so at this point there are probably thousands of people who don't care. Let's move on regardless ,this really has nothing to do with handgun compliance.

-Mike

 

[cjkell]

Hey guys quick question. I couldn't find my specific question so I hope this isn't a repeat. I recently moved back to mass after a stint in the military. From all my research I think I became rather knowledgeable about bringing in firearms from other states I resided in. Speaking with an unnamed western mass ffl/shop owner the other day seemed to greatly challenge that. Long story short he was very sure about the fact that not only could I have moved home with for example a Kimber or an XD but that since it was transferred from out of state I could also keep using such a gun as my carry. Is that really the case? It just didn't sond right to me.

 

[M1911]

Hey guys quick question. I couldn't find my specific question so I hope this isn't a repeat. I recently moved back to mass after a stint in the military. From all my research I think I became rather knowledgeable about bringing in firearms from other states I resided in. Speaking with an unnamed western mass ffl/shop owner the other day seemed to greatly challenge that. Long story short he was very sure about the fact that not only could I have moved home with for example a Kimber or an XD but that since it was transferred from out of state I could also keep using such a gun as my carry. Is that really the case? It just didn't sond right to me.

He was correct. Read the thread. The MA handgun compliance statutes and regulations govern what dealers can sell, not what you can purchase or possess.

 

[cjkell]

Yep figured Id be coming out of this feeling dumb. Thanks for the response anyway I can't believe I didn't put that part of the equation together.

 

[M1911]

Yep figured Id be coming out of this feeling dumb. Thanks for the response anyway I can't believe I didn't put that part of the equation together.

Read the statutes and regulations. It is pretty clear in that regards. Everything else to do with them is confusing as heck, but that part is clear.

 

[Sbwilbur]

Seemed appropriate to bump this thread rather than clutter the forum with a new one. I have a friend that was an Arizona resident. He just moved into MA but has decided to sell off his 1911 and has no interest going through the licensing process. What is the legality of purchasing/taking possession of his firearm? Is he unable to sell it because he doesn't have a license to put on the FA-10?

I'm asking here because it's a non-compliant model. Input is appreciated. I'm not particularly interested in the gun myself but I want to make sure he doesn't end up in any legal trouble.

 

[browncoat]

Seemed appropriate to bump this thread rather than clutter the forum with a new one. I have a friend that was an Arizona resident. He just moved into MA but has decided to sell off his 1911 and has no interest going through the licensing process. What is the legality of purchasing/taking possession of his firearm? Is he unable to sell it because he doesn't have a license to put on the FA-10?

I'm asking here because it's a non-compliant model. Input is appreciated. I'm not particularly interested in the gun myself but I want to make sure he doesn't end up in any legal trouble.

Without a license, you can't sell on an FA-10. He would have to do the transfer through an FFL, and finding an FFL willing to do the transfer might be difficult since it is non-compliant. An FFL could of course sell it to someone who is out of state and send it to their FFL. That is the legality of purchasing it. As to possession, it is not legal for him to possess the handgun without a license outside of the brief move in window (I think 60 days after you move into the state). Since he doesn't plan on getting a license, he should put the handgun into storage with you or another licensed friend. Temporary possession is *not* a transfer and is legal without FA-10 or FFL. Then, when he decides what to do with the 1911, the licensed party that is temporarily storing it would take it and him to the FFL where the transfer/sale/etc gets done. All legal.