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Live from the Rally
- Thread starter Chris
- Start date
Well, the issue as I see it is that by releasing your medical/mental health records, and given the local COP has full issuing discretion, that time you told your PCP you felt depressed or when you got a Xanax scrip after your brother died could easily be construed as a mental illness, a sign of instability, or a chance you are a danger to yourself or others. It would then be a reason to deny issuance.
The problem is complex. When I was talking to state senator Spilka last month, she was talking about mental health checks, and how we need to keep guns out of the hands of the violent mentally ill. She has a family history here, so it's close to her. At the same time that she says this, though, she is introducing legislation that provides urgent mental health care to those in crisis without the stigma of placing them in the system, thereby circumventing the very mental health checks that she thinks we should all submit to.
The slope is slippery because the details are nonexistent. You give me your records and full discretion over the decision-making process and I'll decide whether you can have a gun. No thank you.
PS: don't think they won't be looking at your history of drug and alcohol use either, to the extent that you ever answered your doctor honestly about that stuff. Three drinks a night? Sounds like alcoholism to me, which is a mental illness under DSM-IV if I recall correctly.
MisterHappy
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Good piece, IMO, on WCVB.
Jim Wallace and Jay Beard spoke on camera, as did a couple others.
Also Rosenthal, saying that the reasonable laws were only going to affect fringe groups out to overthrow the government. Too bad there was not follow-up: "If they're planning on overthrowing the government, why would they pay attention you new laws?"
Jim Wallace and Jay Beard spoke on camera, as did a couple others.
Also Rosenthal, saying that the reasonable laws were only going to affect fringe groups out to overthrow the government. Too bad there was not follow-up: "If they're planning on overthrowing the government, why would they pay attention you new laws?"
Look at it from the medias point of view: The medias job is to sell the story, get ratings and make money.
The have production meetings and decide how to slant the topic, to fit into the overall "facts" they want to report.
Gun bans are old news, the stories have payed out, people don't even notice them anymore.
The stuff we preach about tyrannical government, individual liberty, self defense, are all trending now, so expect to see a more friendly "slant" from MSM.....until it stops "selling"
My point is, they had 2 major directions they could spin this: "activists trying to fix a broken system" or "rabble rousers attempt to usurp the Commonwealth"
The rally was outstanding. I no longer have TV, so I didnt see any newscasts. They were all there though. At a guesstimate, I would say that there were between 2-3000, give or take. Hard to ignore that crowd. We need to keep pushing!!!
There were a lot of great speakers!!! It was a great rally all around. PennyPincher got the GOAL presidents award, on behalf of the Westford Pro2A work-congrats! And, June4th-excellent story about your young one!!! I got to briefly meet you & shake your hand (I was the short guy with the brown beard). Keep up the great work!
There were a lot of great speakers!!! It was a great rally all around. PennyPincher got the GOAL presidents award, on behalf of the Westford Pro2A work-congrats! And, June4th-excellent story about your young one!!! I got to briefly meet you & shake your hand (I was the short guy with the brown beard). Keep up the great work!
Garys
NES Member
1) It's HIPAA, not HIPPA. The definition of PHI is actually fairly narrow.
2) "Adjudication" is a legal decision, not a medical decision. Someone can be entered into NICS as a prohibited person without putting a diagnosis in, just that he or she has been adjudicated as needing to be confined against his will.
3) It's a losing position to advocate that people who are a known danger to themselves or others should have legal access to firearms.
QTHNH
NES Member
Actually I get it re the media.
My latter comment was merely making a statement of fact. If as reported, GOAL used the event to deliver proposed draft legislation today, I was unaware. Meaning, I wish that GOAL made that a more clear goal of today's event. I would have wanted to make sure I understood their proposed legislation and whether I fully supported, or not. Maybe they did make it clear and I just missed it. Anyway, just a minor point on an otherwise fine day (sunburn!)
1. Thank you.
2. I understand that. And if adjudicated as mentally defective/dangerous, you already are not allowed to purchase from FFL (such a determination should already be given to NICS in the form of "prohibited person" even if without cause, no?). I won't even address a private sale as you can legislate the hell out of it and make 10,000 background checks a requirement along with sacrificing 5 babies...but if someone wants to sell something out of their trunk to another person that wants to buy...that isn't going to stop them.
3. Stating that one wants a legal adjudiction via due process prior to stripping of rights is not the same as advocating that the violent and dangerous mentally ill should have access to firearms. I don't want a doctor to be the final arbiter. That doctor can stand up in court and provide testimony to be considered, but his opinion alone should not be basis for stripping someone of a legal and natural right.
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ChevyGuy91
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I am not. I rode up with a great dude that shut his business down for the day, and offered up seats in his 10 passenger van. We left with 5 of us. I heard the same story about the Mansfield club.
I am encouraged that this many people called out of work to show up, but we need more. I hope we see this many people on the Lexington Green in 2 weeks.
Considering it was a work day for most, the turn out was better than I had expected.
Not everyone has the option of taking a day off, and I'd hate for someone to call in sick, show up at the rally, have their picture in the news and their boss/supervisor see it.
I look at this and the previous rally as a warm-up for things to come on down the road.
When and where the support will really be needed is when we know (if we know), if any legislation makes it out of committee hearings.
Hopefully these last two rallys will have some impact on their decisions.
I just hope the sneaky pricks don't try to pull a fast one by scheduling a vote (late night, weekend or otherwise), with little or no warning.
JayMcB
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Yeah, they never do that....except when they pass 500 million in new taxes with no public hearings, or when they 'voice vote' themselves a raise at midnight.
Well, it was warmer than the North Brookfield rally. I'd say maybe 800-1200 people were there. Nice meeting people new and old. I brought a new friend from my club, and introduced him to a lot of folks. It was good all around. Spoke to an aide in Fattman's office, who, after I showed him the state's poster of gun laws, suggested many of those laws need to be repealed. That was encouraging. My rep was on the floor, so I couldn't speak with him, but I got a friendly wave from Sen. Peterson. One thing, next time, we need a chant and to make some noise as we approach the statehouse. We should show up as a force to be reckoned with! More effort and planning needs to be made to contact and recruit in the clubs. THIS is from where we will glean larger numbers.
Thank you! I tamed down the tune a bit as I was trying to keep the speech short last night. So if I understand you correctly, the Lexington event I should come out swinging?
I already got my first NICS delay: http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/general-discussion/200997-nics-check-delayed.html The delay was straighten out yesterday. Pretty sure I'm climbing up the 'list', you know.
![[wink]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/002.gif "Wink [wink]")
June 4th - I thought of you when I ran into an anti-gunner milling around the State House. We spoke for a while going back and forth, and he talked about how "safe" he felt when he was in China with "no guns". I hit back with, "good thing you didn't criticize the government". He hit back with, "they can criticize the government!". I nearly shit. I asked him if he had ever heard of Tianamen or even of the Cultural Revolution? He kept ranting about too many people with guns...
StevieP
NES Member
That's me! Thanks for the decent pic! This must've been early as it got a LOT more crowded. I had pretty much the same outfit, sign, and flag as the January rally, right down to my longjohns. I didn't go to the state house. I felt like such crap. I came home and went back to bed.
Again - good job everyone.
June4th
NES Member
@sieveboy, we can all recognize that some people are beyond reasoning and logic. I try daily 'how to win friends and influence people' on people that I can influence. Also another important benefit of such rallies is to solidify our own base. We might be preaching to the choir to each other, but we need to know that are many like-minded people like us, and we need to know where friends are if we need each other's support.
I purposefully avoided the China topic in my speech today because I wanted to talk about America. China was my past and I don't really care of what happens there (nor can I do anything about anything), but here in America lies my future and my children's. We have a fighting chance and we need to hold the fort, for the children.
I purposefully avoided the China topic in my speech today because I wanted to talk about America. China was my past and I don't really care of what happens there (nor can I do anything about anything), but here in America lies my future and my children's. We have a fighting chance and we need to hold the fort, for the children.
They will sneak whatever they can by in the middle of the night that is for sure.
As for the turn out, I used one of my vacation days. While this will be a long battle the early fights are the key. I know some guys might not be able to get the day off and a few had some serious personal things come up, but I also know that we have a lot more potential in numbers. Wallace works his ass off and I just hope we have an impact to help out.
I saw that guy.. a jogger in an orange/brown suit. That was the most civil disobedience I saw the whole time today, and everyone around me (including me) was so hoping he would trip or run into a bus while he was yelling at us and not looking where he was going.
Another instance where a young girl looked annoyed with us but her father stopped and patted us on the shoulder and said he was on our side.
Garys
NES Member
The doctor isn't the final arbiter, the judge is. That's what adjudication means. Interestingly, MA has among the strongest patient rights laws in the nation. It's very hard to get someone adjudicated mentally ill and committed for treatment against their will. Even people not competent to make their own decisions have great latitude in what they can refuse to agree to. It's not as simple as a doctor standing up in court and making a statement.
Great showing guys. Good speech June4th, I liked your tone. Was worth the trip out...we need to keep the pressure on them.
Chris
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Look, I'm not speaking for anyone else, this is my take.
Criminal and mental dangers to society need to be addressed. Using due process where people can defend themselves, evidence is given, and a jury ultimately decides, I believe that people can be stripped of their rights.
But, you lose ALL your rights. If you can not be trusted with a gun, I don't want you aiming a 6000 lb motor vehicle at me either. I don't want you hanging around public areas. I don't want you casting a ballot. I don't want you in any position where you might pose a threat to my freedoms.
A person is either a danger to society and for the good of everyone including the person, they need to be placed in a highly structured environment, or, they are a free citizen with full rights.
Anything else is contrary to every principle our country is founded on.
That these political hacks feel they have some power vested on them that allows them to determine what rights any person may enjoy is not a constitutional republic, but a toletarian government.
Criminal and mental dangers to society need to be addressed. Using due process where people can defend themselves, evidence is given, and a jury ultimately decides, I believe that people can be stripped of their rights.
But, you lose ALL your rights. If you can not be trusted with a gun, I don't want you aiming a 6000 lb motor vehicle at me either. I don't want you hanging around public areas. I don't want you casting a ballot. I don't want you in any position where you might pose a threat to my freedoms.
A person is either a danger to society and for the good of everyone including the person, they need to be placed in a highly structured environment, or, they are a free citizen with full rights.
Anything else is contrary to every principle our country is founded on.
That these political hacks feel they have some power vested on them that allows them to determine what rights any person may enjoy is not a constitutional republic, but a toletarian government.
WBZ radio played a very small clip of your speech, the part about your six year old shooting the bad guys. They must not have though the rest was inportant.
At least I heard the whole thing. Good job again.![[thumbsup]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/044.gif "Thumbs Up [thumbsup]")
yeah, and the next thing the "newscaster" said was:
"Gun Control Advocates cite statistics that show guns in the home are more likely to lead to accidents or suicides rather than successful defense against an intruder" (I'm paraphrasing here, but you get the point.)
![[rolleyes]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/042.gif "Roll Eyes [rolleyes]")
QTHNH
NES Member
Not sure if this was posted previously, but the 2/28 event in Albany NY : » Ten Thousand NY Patriots Disagree w/ Bloomberg: Operation Paul Revere Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind!
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