I am a bad boy....

[blindndead]

I got my Reply in the mail today. The police department Said I have a charge of disorderly in 1994 and they will not process my app any further until I write them a letter on what happened. I was at a party the cops came there were 17 year olds and I was 18 at the time. It was not my place of residence. Someone got a hold of some booz and brought it over the party. The police called the Parents of everyone that was not 18 and they went home but I was 18 I had to spend the night in the slammer. I went to court 3 times and on the the 3rd time I was approched and I was told told to pay my court fees and be a good boy for 6 months and I would not have a record. Well Guess What!!! I guess I have a record. WHF! I sent in my letter in detail. The police shure make me feel like a criminal. Am I junk or what? Now All that crap that went down in Fairhaven they will look at me with the so called (RED FLAG GOING UP) I will keep you posted how I make out.

 

[EddieCoyle]

Good luck. The timing sucks.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Good luck!

WRT gun licenses:

- "Sealed Records" get unsealed. Info can be used for denial on crime charged OR on suitability.

- Pardons do NOT mean that they don't have full access to the record and can do the same as I noted above.

The above info is NOT "my thoughts" on the matter, but came from a very official source, very recently.

 

[drgrant]

Good luck!

WRT gun licenses:

- "Sealed Records" get unsealed. Info can be used for denial on crime charged OR on suitability.

- Pardons do NOT mean that they don't have full access to the record and can do the same as I noted above.

The above info is NOT "my thoughts" on the matter, but came from a very official source, very recently.

Len- isn't another compounding factor, that in MA ,there is no such thing
as an expungement? EG, even if one was falsely arrested, or accused of
a crime, that it's impossible to have your "MA record" expunged?

-Mike

 

[Len-2A Training]

Mike you are 100% correct. Arrest records stay forever, even if mistaken identity . . . even if you win a civil suit for false arrest!

 

[matt1956]

Not sure if you put it on your app, but they are very specific that "IF you ever appeared in court as a defendant" to include it regardless the out come.

IF you put it on the app and they are giving you crap, then they are just dicking you around. It sounds like you were issued a "continued without a finding", which is typically given to first offences (minor, not major offences).

Just because they said "be good for 6 months and this goes away" doesn't mean there is no record of it.

My personal exp:

I was 16 and in a car wit 3 of my friends. One of them was 18 (and driving)

My Friend had a half of case of beer in the trunk he was hiding from his parents. We got pulled over and being 12:30AM in West Bridgwater, and 4 teens in a car the cops got us all out and started asking all our names and such.... well, the friend that had the beer in the trunk was ofcourse very nervous and the cops decided to search the car. Now... of course they didnt ask... we were teenagers... who was a court going to believe.

Anyway, they found the beer and arrested us all for minor in possesion. Now... not my car, wasn't driving and none of us had been drinking. But because we were all under aged, we all got the ride to the pd.

For the tree of us that were simply passengers, we got a "Nul Pros" (I'm sure Scirv will correct my lingo ) basically saying the case wasnt prosecuted. I still somehow had to do 20 hours of community service... but I think that was actually a good thing.

Anyway, you bet your butt I put that on my app and attached a copy of the court record to avoid any questions.

Gl with your letter though.

 

[blindndead]

Well

I did not put any record of this on my app because of that It states have you been convicted of a felony and or restraining order. I sent In A letter in my own words of what happened now I guess I will just wait and see whats next. What sucks is the police department prob thinks I am trying to hide something. What a pain in the ass.

 

[SKS Ray]

I've been arrested quite a few times for disorderly conduct, all of which were either a case of being at the wrong place at the wrong time, or just cops being hard asses when we used to hang around the local avenue and try to pick up girls. I still wound up with a Class A LTC in New Bedford of all places.
Sure I'm nervous about my renewal next year, but I explained in detail on my application what happened and plan on doing so again if needed. Plus I have some good contacts that I use for (forgot how they word it but what's it called? The area on the application where you list people to vouch for you?) names.
At least having a C&R I'm hoping will get some pull when it comes time for my renewal. And if worse comes to worse, I have a few top dollar pieces I can sell to hire a lawyer to fight the NB police chief. I'm giving nothing up without a fight, I don't care what this city/state comes to.

 

[matt1956]

http://www.mass.gov/Eeops/docs/chsb/frb_fid_lic_app.pdf

Question 10, page two.

Page 3 states that "if you answered yest to any of the above, you must explain in detail"

You need to be very careful when filling this out.

 

[blindndead]

Matt

that link you sent me is not what the Fall River Police Department wants you to fill out. They have own app that I needed to pick up at the station. They refuse that app

 

[dwarven1]

WRT gun licenses:

- "Sealed Records" get unsealed. Info can be used for denial on crime charged OR on suitability.

In NJ the records get expunged - as in, ripped up and thrown out. Or so they claim. HOWEVER... supposedly there still is a record in DC with the FBI's computers... again, this is what I was told.

So... when Lt Moran at MPD says that yup, we look at everything and if it comes back from DC that there's a record, you're considered to have lied on the form - even if the records are expunged. So... I told him the whole story, including the 24 8x10 colored glossy photographs, and I still got my LTC-A-ALP.

Fast forward to this year. I put the same thing down on my form... and while he's putting stuff into the computer, he hits "NO" under "Kid, have you ever been arrested?". Apparently, he ran my record between the time I called to make the appointment to see him and the appointment... and it looks like there wasn't anything there for him to enter.

Go figure.

 

[matt1956]

that link you sent me is not what the Fall River Police Department wants you to fill out. They have own app that I needed to pick up at the station. They refuse that app

I could be wrong... and I'm sure that if I am I will be corrected. But that link I believe is the only one that is supposed to be used according to MGL. But again, I would like one of our Legal types to correct that as I may have miss-interpreted something I read here.

Now, that doesn't stop towns from still abusing their authority and making you jusp through any hoop they like... I would suguest hiring one of our legal minded folks

 

[dwarven1]

As Scrivener has said many times, there is ONLY ONE form you should be using, but many PD's will make you jump through hoops that you do not have to. I suggest you contact Scrivener, Cross-X or jcohen (all attorneys) and see if they can help you out here.

 

[firtree]

I agree. Sounds like a lawyer is really needed. Sell off some junk
and pay for a few hours of their services if you really want that permit.

F

 

[BigWarden]

Well, I for one feel much safer knowing that the police are doing such a good job of keeping guns out of the hands of dangerous career criminals like yourself ... What kind of scum goes to a party with beer when they're 18?

 

[clinotus]

Also piping in about Massachusetts seals/expungements: They dont happen. The information is still pullable by most people. Same goes for Continued Without a Finding / Juvenile sealed records.

The letter sucks, but a fair amount of people have to do them and still get permits.

Them asking you for a letter pretty much just means that the CLEO wants documented clarification more than anything else so that they can cover themselves. If you were unsuitable for the charges/record they would have denied you outright.

 

[KMaurer]

that link you sent me is not what the Fall River Police Department wants you to fill out. They have own app that I needed to pick up at the station. They refuse that app

Please either photocopy or scan the application that Fall River insists you use, and send a copy to Nancy Snow at GOAL. Even if you don't want to get into a pissing contest with them over their illegal behavior, I'm sure that GOAL and likely a certain attorney would be very happy to visit them and talk to them about the error of their ways for future applicants. Your name would never need to come up should you prefer it that way, but please do it for the next person.

Ken

 

[Scrivener]

I did not put any record of this on my app because of that It states have you been convicted of a felony and or restraining order. I sent In A letter in my own words of what happened now I guess I will just wait and see whats next. What sucks is the police department prob thinks I am trying to hide something. What a pain in the ass.

ANOTHER one who can't read a simple question: "Have you ever appeared as a criminal defendant.....?"

You did. The answer is YES. Period.

Specious drivel about how "It states have you been convicted of a felony and or restraining order" has nothing to do with the above question. Those are, quite obviously, ADDITIONAL questions. RTFD.

As for the PD refusing to accept the real form and demanding you use its fabrication:

What you tolerate, you validate;
What you put up with - you DESERVE!

 

[blindndead]

Ok

I guess I do deserve to be reemed out for my stupidity in thinking that talking to a magistrate wouldn't count as an appearance in court as a defendant.

 

[Bandit]

that link you sent me is not what the Fall River Police Department wants you to fill out. They have own app that I needed to pick up at the station. They refuse that app

Please do what KMaurer suggested and notify Goal ( 508 ) 393-5333 ,
they have been looking for info on Chief's that Do Not Follow the Law.
And asking in The Outdoor Message for help in locating and flushing them out.

Bob

 

[Scrivener]

I guess I do deserve to be reemed out for my stupidity in thinking that talking to a magistrate wouldn't count as an appearance in court as a defendant.

"Talking to a magistrate?!?!" Let's review:

I was 18 I had to spend the night in the slammer. I went to court 3 times and on the the 3rd time I was approched and I was told told to pay my court fees and be a good boy for 6 months and I would not have a record. Well Guess What!!! I guess I have a record.

Arrested, jailed and 3 court appearances is not "talking to a magistrate."

I can just imagine the rest of your application..........

 

[clinotus]

^ I thought you were one of the good guys. If I ever have a firearm law question/isuue at least I know now who not to ask since you'lll just be a jerk about it.

 

[blindndead]

Thanks

For being so strait with me. I feel like I should have got myself into more trouble as a young adult to fully understand how the court system works. The times I have walked into a court house I could count on one hand. Thanks all for your help.

 

[poisonposey]

Arrested?

Technically if you weren't read your rights and it was protective custody they had you in, you were not arrested. ( were you read your rights?)

 

[blindndead]

?

No I was not. but I bet the police report states I did.

 

[dwarven1]

Arrested, jailed and 3 court appearances is not "talking to a magistrate."

I can just imagine the rest of your application..........

Scriv, I'm really worried about your blood pressure...

 

[Len-2A Training]

Technically if you weren't read your rights and it was protective custody they had you in, you were not arrested. ( were you read your rights?)

Sorry, wrong answer!

Miranda Rights reading is ONLY relevant if they want to question you. Legally you can be arrested, not questioned and thus NOT given your Miranda Rights!

As an interesting aside . . . as a Constable we make arrests, mostly "deadbeat dads" and the judge can issue the warrant as either a criminal or civil warrant (they usually pick civil). In any case, when we make the arrest, we do NOT Miranda the person, just cuff and stuff them and take them to the judge. Were they arrested? You betcha! Was it criminal or civil? The guy better read the paperwork very carefully to determine this! We're not interested in questioning the person or "investigating" a crime, simply arrest and deliver to the bench for the judge to decide what to do, thus no Miranda or other warnings and no long discussions.

 

[Scrivener]

Scriv, I'm really worried about your blood pressure...

The direct result of over-exposure to the terminally obtuse.

Here we have someone thinking being jailed and going to court 3 times is merely "talking to a magistrate" (and where are THEY found?) and doesn't trigger a "yes" on Question 10; on another board we have a moron who pleaded to a felony asking if his wife can buy a gun for him AFTER he failed the NICS check; and 4 out of either 6 or 8 applicants at the last FLRB meeting also blew # 10 (and 1 or 2 other questions). The only reason anyone comes to the FLRB is if they were not merely arrested or even convicted; it is because they have a disqualifying conviction. Gaaaaaaaaaaaaaad, how much more "appeared as a defendant in any court" can you get?

Schools are clearly failing to teach reading comprehension. Given some of the appalling spelling, punctuation and syntax errors I see, it is questionable whether reading is being taught at all.

 

[poisonposey]

?

I wasn't aware of that fact. When I took criminal justice courses we were told that if you were taken into custody, brought to the station, fingerprinted, searched, and questioned, you must've had your rights given to you. Am I still wrong?

 

[Scrivener]

If I ever have a firearm law question/isuue [sic] at least I know now who not to ask since you'lll [sic] just be a jerk about it.

Do yourself and me both a favor - learn from the mistakes of others, try actually reading and answering the questions correctly instead of making foolish guesses, and perhaps you won't need an attorney.

Then again, given the egregious abuses many towns are heaping upon applicants, even that may not work.