How NOT to draw your gun

  • Thread starter Finalygotabeltfed
  • Start date
Jose said:
When was the last time I went shooting?

Weekend before last (Sat June 25) I spent a day and 70 rounds of 308 Win shooting steel plates between 160 and 700 yards at Thunder Valley Precision.

Is that OK?
Click to expand...

Well you did that wrong Jose. Don't you know the Hollywood "In Thing" right now is 1000 Yards [smile] [laugh] [wink]


Just joking, I wish I was able to shoot that much, congrats.
 
TWtommers said:
Here's the logic. The whole argument about the loss of fine motor skills has to do with the body's fight or flight response. The idea is that blood is diverted from "unnecessarry" extremities and channeled into the major muscles. Hearing is decreased and vision is narrowed. In this state, it's said (I've never experienced it) you dexterity is reduced to something akin to wearing mittens.
Click to expand...

I'm not pouncing on you here... but disabling holster retention features, pulling the trigger, hitting the slide release/mag release/cylinder release, opening a mag pouch, using a flashlight are all fine motor skills. All those Wild West gunfighters using SA revolvers had to have fine motorskills under stress, so did the Minutemen completing complicated reloading steps on the battlefield.

If you don't train and prepare to fight or flight, you won't do either. In CHP's Newhall shootout, James Pence died reloading, because his trainers allowed him to dump his empty shell casings into his hand to place in his pocket instead of on the ground...because quickly cleaning up the range after quals was more important than preparing to fight. In the Jonesboro, Arkansas school shooting, Shannon Wright dove on top of a student to shield them from bullets with her own body, laying there waiting for death instead of escaping the killzone, because that's exactly what she prepared to do in her NG medic training...protect the patient. Peter Soulis continued to fight after taking multiple hits from an attacker who took more than an entire Glock 22 magazine COM, he brought the fight to the felon and won...because he prepared to overcome.

Training isn't a thing you get one time and have forever like a holster or T-shirt, and marksmanship isn't fighting. It's an ongoing lifestyle of preparation, a devotion to keeping your skills honed & ready for brutal violence.
 
GSG said:
I'm not pouncing on you here... but disabling holster retention features, pulling the trigger, hitting the slide release/mag release/cylinder release, opening a mag pouch, using a flashlight are all fine motor skills. All those Wild West gunfighters using SA revolvers had to have fine motorskills under stress, so did the Minutemen completing complicated reloading steps on the battlefield.

If you don't train and prepare to fight or flight, you won't do either. In CHP's Newhall shootout, James Pence died reloading, because his trainers allowed him to dump his empty shell casings into his hand to place in his pocket instead of on the ground...because quickly cleaning up the range after quals was more important than preparing to fight. In the Jonesboro, Arkansas school shooting, Shannon Wright dove on top of a student to shield them from bullets with her own body, laying there waiting for death instead of escaping the killzone, because that's exactly what she prepared to do in her NG medic training...protect the patient. Peter Soulis continued to fight after taking multiple hits from an attacker who took more than an entire Glock 22 magazine COM, he brought the fight to the felon and won...because he prepared to overcome.

Training isn't a thing you get one time and have forever like a holster or T-shirt, and marksmanship isn't fighting. It's an ongoing lifestyle of preparation, a devotion to keeping your skills honed & ready for brutal violence.
Click to expand...

QFTMFT
 
Bill Nance said:
You sound like you don't have much experience with the 1911 platform. It takes very little practice with the gun to get the "safety off" part to be so automatic you don't even think about it. Carry one for a while and practice with it like your life depended on it (Because it just might) and it's so ingrained it just happened.

The fight or flight thing you're talking about is similar to the 50% rule: You will perform at 50% of the level of your best day at the range in the real event. But performance where you are making groups 4 inches apart as opposed to two isn't an issue. Also, any timed test with people watching you adds a significant amount of stress. If someone is yelling at you as you do it, it adds even more stress. Once you get used to this the whole stress thing becomes LESS of a hindrance.

If you don't practice a lot with your carry weapon, whatever it is, then shame on you. And yes, if you don't, in the actual event your performance may suck. But forgetting the safety on your 1911 would be the LAST thing I'd be worried about because it really does become muscle memory amazingly quickly. Sight picture, trigger control,presentation form the holster are infinitely more difficult on every level that flicking down the safety.
Click to expand...

GSG said:
I'm not pouncing on you here... but disabling holster retention features, pulling the trigger, hitting the slide release/mag release/cylinder release, opening a mag pouch, using a flashlight are all fine motor skills. All those Wild West gunfighters using SA revolvers had to have fine motorskills under stress, so did the Minutemen completing complicated reloading steps on the battlefield.

If you don't train and prepare to fight or flight, you won't do either. In CHP's Newhall shootout, James Pence died reloading, because his trainers allowed him to dump his empty shell casings into his hand to place in his pocket instead of on the ground...because quickly cleaning up the range after quals was more important than preparing to fight. In the Jonesboro, Arkansas school shooting, Shannon Wright dove on top of a student to shield them from bullets with her own body, laying there waiting for death instead of escaping the killzone, because that's exactly what she prepared to do in her NG medic training...protect the patient. Peter Soulis continued to fight after taking multiple hits from an attacker who took more than an entire Glock 22 magazine COM, he brought the fight to the felon and won...because he prepared to overcome.

Training isn't a thing you get one time and have forever like a holster or T-shirt, and marksmanship isn't fighting. It's an ongoing lifestyle of preparation, a devotion to keeping your skills honed & ready for brutal violence.
Click to expand...

I don't think I'm disagreeing with either of you here. In fact, I think you just said what I was thinking better. If you train, it's not an issue. I didn't take either response as a "pounce" BTW [wink]
 
GSG said:
I'm not pouncing on you here... but disabling holster retention features, pulling the trigger, hitting the slide release/mag release/cylinder release, opening a mag pouch, using a flashlight are all fine motor skills. All those Wild West gunfighters using SA revolvers had to have fine motorskills under stress, so did the Minutemen completing complicated reloading steps on the battlefield.

If you don't train and prepare to fight or flight, you won't do either. In CHP's Newhall shootout, James Pence died reloading, because his trainers allowed him to dump his empty shell casings into his hand to place in his pocket instead of on the ground...because quickly cleaning up the range after quals was more important than preparing to fight. In the Jonesboro, Arkansas school shooting, Shannon Wright dove on top of a student to shield them from bullets with her own body, laying there waiting for death instead of escaping the killzone, because that's exactly what she prepared to do in her NG medic training...protect the patient. Peter Soulis continued to fight after taking multiple hits from an attacker who took more than an entire Glock 22 magazine COM, he brought the fight to the felon and won...because he prepared to overcome.

Training isn't a thing you get one time and have forever like a holster or T-shirt, and marksmanship isn't fighting. It's an ongoing lifestyle of preparation, a devotion to keeping your skills honed & ready for brutal violence.
Click to expand...

Bam! </emeril>
 
Keystone said:
Well, I was wrong. I'd suspect this is due to the fact that the muscle/fat in the leg isn't dense enough to get the round to expand, or maybe because it was actually moving fast enough at that point that it really didn't have time to expand. Interesting.
Click to expand...

Just out of curiosity, if it didn't have time to expand, how are there two fragments still inside his leg? Looking at the pictures, they look like the jacket got torn off.
 
ARV said:
Just out of curiosity, if it didn't have time to expand, how are there two fragments still inside his leg? Looking at the pictures, they look like the jacket got torn off.
Click to expand...

He was shooting FMJs, which are probably a different animal. I'll let someone else respond, since my assumptions about hollow points were obviously already wrong.
 
I was referring to the guy in the link Mike posted (http://negligentdischarge.com/) not the video in the OP. From the link above:
On January 19, 2008 I had a negligent discharge of my pistol. It's a Rock Island full size 1911. .45 ACP loaded with Federal Hydra Shok ammunition. This round utilizes a 230 grain jacketed hollow point bullet. This is a very good self defense round, because the bullets expand as they pass through material like animals and people
Click to expand...

Maybe I was confused by which "shot in the leg guy" was being referred to.
 
ARV said:
Just out of curiosity, if it didn't have time to expand, how are there two fragments still inside his leg? Looking at the pictures, they look like the jacket got torn off.
Click to expand...

Those rounds aren't as bad as the original Winchester SilverTips were, but they're not fantastic. They don't always open up. The jacket's made of copper though, which is fairly soft.
 
GSG said:
Those rounds aren't as bad as the original Winchester SilverTips were, but they're not fantastic. They don't always open up. The jacket's made of copper though, which is fairly soft.
Click to expand...

The original Fed Hydra Shock 230 gr .45 loads were basically glorified, hot FMJ. You -might- be able to make them open on a water jug test or on bare gel, but if you sneezed the wrong way those rounds tended to just act like FMJ. Back when ammolab was around they had tested that round like 3 times in one denim test and it sailed through the block (without expanding) every time.

I would even go so far as to say they are far worse performers than the 185 Silvertips. Most of the heavier silvertips didn't suck that bad (eg, like the 175 gr 10mm, and the 185 gr .45...) it's the 9mm Silvertips that were pretty much the worst of the class.

-Mike
 
itsprebanlol said:
This is why I will always use a shoulder holster.
Click to expand...

Yes, so that when you don't obey the 2 most important rules, you just kill/injure anyone standing behind you instead of shooting yourself in the leg. [rofl]

Again... while the holster fed into this ND, it was not the primary cause of the incident.

-Mike
 

Similar threads

What not to do with your new gun.
2
Replies
42
Views
1K
Coyote33
Coyote33
Never open your door to cops. EVER!!!
2
Replies
37
Views
927
Mountain
Mountain
Preban or not
2 3
Replies
65
Views
2K
not new guy
N
I'm not sure what to think of this
2
Replies
33
Views
715
chris_1001
chris_1001
Cleaning your guns
2 3
Replies
66
Views
2K
Buck F
Buck F
Back
Top Bottom