Excuse my ignorance, as I know that it does take time for a hollow point to mushroom, but if the bullet used WAS a hollow point as apposed to the FMJ he said was used, would he have put a much bigger exit hole in his leg?
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While we're on the topic, here's another one.... prolly another thread around here already.... pretty graphic in parts... so if you're eating lunch, don't browse too much...
http://negligentdischarge.com/
-Mike
http://negligentdischarge.com/
-Mike
flintoid
Banned
gaaaaahhhhhhh!
Since it looks like he was practicing extreme close defensive techniques; I can only assume that was his poor attempt at "sweeping/blocking" the badguys weapon hand and thus the support hand ended up near his ear. Not the way we teach an aggressive move during draw.
![[laugh]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/012.gif "Laugh [laugh]")
Bill Nance
Banned
SERPA holsters have been banned at a lot of schools specifically because of the location of the release. People WILL make mistakes. Including everyone on this board. Having a release that puts the booger-hook on top of the trigger guard just seems like courting disaster for little benefit.
Yup. If you really want a retention holster, Safariland makes good ones.
I'd say yes. Once the bullet leaves the barrel, it's only losing velocity. It spent plenty of time inside of an object for it to expand properly. I've seen pictures of NDs that put a hollow point through the arm of the shooter. Not pretty.
Not always. As drgrant posted http://negligentdischarge.com/ shows an example of a JHP that had went through and through twice with minimal tissue damage.
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Disagree. I am not going to rely on fine motor skills in say, a self defense situation. Those fine motors skills disappear so fast that operating a safety, IMHO, could be what costs a person gaining the advantage.
I wouldn't call his damage minimal. The JHP didn't expand but that bullet still did a pretty good amount of damage. That guys whole leg basically got f**ked up from a bullet that more or less took a long side trip through it.
In reality even if it does expand you're just making the hole go from .45 to .60ish or so, depending on conditions and how the bullet is designed.
-Mike
Okay...I meant minimal compared to "wow....JHP went in at .45 and came out at 4.5"" like we see in the movies. Not minimal overall. Guess reviewing 800 pages of documentation is getting to me...
![[wink]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/002.gif "Wink [wink]")
You can operate a trigger properly, but you can't operate a safety? You can operate a mag release, but you can't operate a safety?
I've got no problem with guns that don't have external safeties. I've got a bunch of them, I carry them, and I feel adequately armed with them. But this whole "you'll never be able to do X under stress" (X = operate a safety or find a slide release) is just a bunch of bunk. Practice until you do it without thinking.
Well, I was wrong. I'd suspect this is due to the fact that the muscle/fat in the leg isn't dense enough to get the round to expand, or maybe because it was actually moving fast enough at that point that it really didn't have time to expand. Interesting.
exactly, If the safety is slowing you down, it's because you suck, not the gun
It depends on the gun... The 1911 safety is very well placed and easy to disable while the gun is coming up on target without adding any additional time.
The same cannot get said for all guns...
J
Jose
The slide mounted safeties on DA/SA pistols are only to be used as decockers, military training notwithstanding.
The few times I do use or carry an S&W 915, that "safety" gets flicked down to decock and right back up to fire. Then the pistol goes in the holster.
Hey the guy posted the video and admitted what he did I give him alot of credit for it. Takes some balls to A. Own up to a ND considering most people would never want to admit something like that. and B. he took that round to the leg like a champ and then gingerly put the gun down. I can't say I would have acted the same, I wonder if he sold the gun can't have it around now it has the taste of his blood.
I stated my opinion based on the training I've had and my humble but honest credentials.
At least I shoot guns every now and then instead of sitting in the internet all day long. 11,788 posts? C'mon Jose when was the last time YOU were shooting?
I dunno. Ask them.
I shoot in the CDP division, that should clue you it's probably a 1911. The guy shot himself with a 1911.
There's absolutely no reason to take a 1911 (or any other gun equipped with safety) off safety before the barrel is parallel to the ground, unless the operator wants to shoot himself someday.
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actually, it isnt junk. Ask police officers involved in shootings. Hell ask citizens in self defense shootings. Coming from a background where I worked closely with occupational and physical therapists, it is far from junk.
Which, of course, isn't what you posted previously.
The issue, and why you got slammed by so many so hard, is that you did not state your "opinion" you stated your position as fact and used your IDPA pedigree as your evidence of expertise. That attitude tends to get the reaction you found.
As for Jose, he's perfectly capable of fighting his own battles. Have fun with that.
To keep you from shooting yourself in the hand in an extreme close range gunfight. That according to Sheriff Jim Wilson,
who has survived a few, or so I have been told.
Didn't they make a movie about him.... Brokeback Mountain
Oh, BS. Look, if you can learn to align the sights under pressure and learn to press a trigger under pressure, then you can learn to operate a 1911 safety under pressure.
Does it take more training than a gun without a manual safety, like a Glock? Maybe. And training costs money and police departments are broke and 1911s are more expensive and trouble-prone than Glocks. So it is no great surprise that police departments have adopted Glocks and other striker-fired pistols. But if you are holding up police departments as paragons of firearms training, then you are truly misinformed. I've shot with firearms instructors from the LA County Sheriffs Dept., Boston PD, Nashua PD, and a small MetroWest department. Not one of them had anything good to say about the average skill level of the officers in their department. They do the best they can within the constraints placed upon them, but those constraints are very significant. In other words, it isn't hard to get yourself trained above the standard of your local PD.
Explain to all of us why operating the safety is a fine motor skill that you can't do under stress while operating the trigger is not. [crickets]
This is the sort of pseudo-scientific BS that people pedal to justify their particular hobby horse.
Whatever gun you choose, you need to practice it until you can operate it without thinking. If you don't, then yes, you may well bungle it under pressure. In other breaking news, water is still wet.
If you think you can operate one lever (a trigger) under stress, but not another lever (a safety), fine. But dont tell me that one is significantly different than the other and don't tell me that I can't, because I can. If anything, operating a 1911 safety is easier than operating a trigger - I don't have to worry about disturbing the sight alignment while operating a 1911 safety.
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So you put it behind your head?
Hmmm...that certainly runs counter to the training offered at many other schools. Most of the ones I've seen (and the three I've attended) seem to find a role for the support hand in a CQB-type engagement.
