Handgun a "BAD" idea for home defense???

[Bob P]

Is there a particular reason you feel the need to break my balls Bob?

Dude, I don't even know you, why in hell would I want to bust your balls? I disagreed strongly with what I BELIEVED you to be saying and responded.

 

[BOBKATT]

I, personally, would feel bad if I took down a 14 y.o. kid. I have kids, and I know they do not use their brains until they are, maybe, 20 years old. I wouldn't turn my back on him or move the signts off, but I might be just as happy if he beat feet.

There is no age requirement for the thug application. A 14 year old will kill you just as dead with a gun as a 34 year old will. And unless someone has been under a rock for the past 20 years they've seen and hear about middle school kids involved in gun violence and gang violence. The minute you start second guessing the ability of whoever has invaded your house and wether or not they can hurt/kill you because of their age, sex, or any other factor is the minute your kids don't have a daddy anymore.

No one wants to kill or hurt anyone, but remember that what we do want is for you being the victim to be able to say that your son or your daughter and the rest of your family is alive. Sometimes there is absolutely no other choice but to defend yourself in your home with a force that may result in death for the bad guy.

So with all that said I suggest you train with a tool that has the capability of a firearm and if you are in this situation you ID the bad guy and if he has a weapon and is trying to kill you then you do what you have to. If not you can hold him until the cops get there and take him away or he decides to run and you let him.

 

[BOBKATT]

I got a Knoxx SpecOps stock for my new baby, from what my friends tell me, recoil will be reduced by a considerable amount.

The birdshot is to get used to using the weapon, I'll burn through a few boxes of my HD ammo once I'm comfortable with the weapon.

You shouldn't have any recoil issues with that at all. Practice, be safe, and have fun!

 

[-kj-]

This appears to be the post that caused the majority of the contretemps. In it you imply that your plan is to move from room to room seeking the intruder out and you imply that racking the pump with 'make poop run down most peoples pant leg'

Now if you want to say that we've misinterpreted you point, go ahead -

Ok.. sorry to all that are suffering through this, it will be my last waste of posting space.

Yes you have very much mis-interpreted my point. Please RE-READ all previous post before you go putting words in my mouth... there-by filling an otherwise informational thread w/ a huge pile of BS.

Someone mentioned manuverability issues w/ a full size shotgun. I believe the exact quote was: "Get a stick ~30" long, shoulder it, and try to move around your house, see what you think".

Myself, having handled a pistol grip (not shot, only handled), suggested that they (18.5"er's) do not have the same cumbersome size and movement restriction.

Now, I did not EVER imply that I would go room to room hunting someone down. Nor did I ever imply that I would rack the gun to scare someone during a confrontation. I simply said... the sound could be very intimidating.

If you refer to post #19, I actually agree that you should stay in one spot and NOT go hunting room to room.

http://northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=722273&postcount=19

If I had precluded those pics and my statements w/ "my plan is:" then I would not be defending myself and keeping my mouth shut.

just realize that when several people all form the same misimpression of what you've posted/been posting the communication breakdown is possibly on your part.

I do believe any and all other people has issues w/ the spread pattern comment, not the things that you have been breaking my balls about. Although, after others continued to make comments you hopped on as well... still, after I set my comment straight.

If you and others had read my explaination, (which I will give one more time for all the people who don't read all posts), you would realize that I was making an excited, over exagerated (and partially intoxicated) comment on the violence that a shotgun is capable of producing. (all due to my giddyness over a pending mossy500 purchase).

Dude, I don't even know you, why in hell would I want to bust your balls? I disagreed strongly with what I BELIEVED you to be saying and responded.

Hey buddy... that's what we're here for... friendly discussion, debate and sharing of ideas. I've never said you MUST agree w/ me. BUT, please show me a little f*cking respect.

Every reply from yourself, to me, includes obvious condecending references to "go to the range", or "if your not willing to practice don't buy a gun" , "your a danger to youself and your family".

I don't mind a little joking around... as you've seen I do w/ others. But c'mon man. Just cause I'm new to the site does not make you my "superior", nor does it make me a unfamiliar w/ guns.

Carry on.

 

[-kj-]

Where did I say that I was going to kill anybody? I said I was going to defend myself. However, if someone breaks into my home, while I'm home, and I feel as if my life or the lives of my children are in danger, I will sleep like a baby if I'm successful in my defense, whether the intruder was armed or not.

If you're not ready to defend yourself, you probably should leave your gun locked in the safe.

Never said you were going to kill anyone.

I agree w/ the instinct to protect ones family.

And I also agree a 14yr old can be a serious dangerous threat. I just happen to live in a neighborhood that hasn't yet been infected w/ the waste product, welfare-state, give me what's yours, lifestyle that is steadily spreading throughout our country. So I see things from a little different perspective.

The kids in my "hood" are dumb as stumps and waste products of rich mommys and daddys w/ not a responsibility or a care in the world. Just $$ to burn and time to kill.

And once again... I am fully prepared to defend myself, thanks for the concern though.

 

[Bob P]

Ok.. sorry to all that are suffering through this, it will be my last waste of posting space.

Yes you have very much mis-interpreted my point. Please RE-READ all previous post before you go putting words in my mouth... there-by filling an otherwise informational thread w/ a huge pile of BS.

Someone mentioned manuverability issues w/ a full size shotgun. I believe the exact quote was: "Get a stick ~30" long, shoulder it, and try to move around your house, see what you think".

Myself, having handled a pistol grip (not shot, only handled), suggested that they (18.5"er's) do not have the same cumbersome size and movement restriction.

Now, I did not EVER imply that I would go room to room hunting someone down. Nor did I ever imply that I would rack the gun to scare someone during a confrontation. I simply said... the sound could be very intimidating.

If you refer to post #19, I actually agree that you should stay in one spot and NOT go hunting room to room.

http://northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=722273&postcount=19

If I had precluded those pics and my statements w/ "my plan is:" then I would not be defending myself and keeping my mouth shut.




I do believe any and all other people has issues w/ the spread pattern comment, not the things that you have been breaking my balls about. Although, after others continued to make comments you hopped on as well... still, after I set my comment straight.

If you and others had read my explaination, (which I will give one more time for all the people who don't read all posts), you would realize that I was making an excited, over exagerated (and partially intoxicated) comment on the violence that a shotgun is capable of producing. (all due to my giddyness over a pending mossy500 purchase).




Hey buddy... that's what we're here for... friendly discussion, debate and sharing of ideas. I've never said you MUST agree w/ me. BUT, please show me a little f*cking respect.

Every reply from yourself, to me, includes obvious condecending references to "go to the range", or "if your not willing to practice don't buy a gun" , "your a danger to youself and your family".

I don't mind a little joking around... as you've seen I do w/ others. But c'mon man. Just cause I'm new to the site does not make you my "superior", nor does it make me a unfamiliar w/ guns.

Carry on.

If my replies to you appeared condescending I apologize.

I have no knowladge of your experience with guns and comments like 'the pattern will fill the living room' led me to believe your experience was less then you claim.

Many people with minimal knowladge of shotguns believe that you don't need to aim, that a gigantic cloud of pellets will magically sweep away your enemy.

The 'you' in 'you need to go to the range' is the plural 'you' - meaning anyone buying/using a gun for self defense.

You may have been exaggerating for effect with the fill the room comment but not knowing you or your experience I took it at face value - and at one point I did confuse you with the OP - hence the advice comment. My apologies for that as well.

 

[-kj-]

If my replies to you appeared condescending I apologize.

I have no knowladge of your experience with guns and comments like 'the pattern will fill the living room' led me to believe your experience was less then you claim.

Many people with minimal knowladge of shotguns believe that you don't need to aim, that a gigantic cloud of pellets will magically sweep away your enemy.

The 'you' in 'you need to go to the range' is the plural 'you' - meaning anyone buying/using a gun for self defense.

You may have been exaggerating for effect with the fill the room comment but not knowing you or your experience I took it at face value - and at one point I did confuse you with the OP - hence the advice comment. My apologies for that as well.

Thanks buddy... it's all good.

 

[M1911]

What do you suggest? "Forting up" in a corner and just waiting for him to stumble upon you?

My plan is to follow the training I had in LFI-1. Fort up in the bedroom, covering the bedroom door, with the Mrs. talking to the police on the phone in bedroom (cell phone if landline is out). Hopefully, the police arrive before Mr. Goblin comes through the bedroom door.

If not, then challenge if I have time and decide whether or not to fire, based on the threat I am presented with.

 

[M1911]

I know this is going to be off topic, and I apologize. When I picked up my Mossberg 590 I asked the guy behind the counter for shells which were good for home defense. He sold me several boxes of Federal Premium Law Enforcement Ammunition 00 buck, 9 pellets. He told me this ammunition is specifically designed not to have a lot of energy behind it so it is less likely to go through the wall. The muzzle velocity is 1145 fps.

Baloney. Any 00 buck, whether full load or reduced recoil load will go through multiple sheetrock walls. Google the box of truth.

 

[M1911]

In following the advice here and I'm going start practicing with my 9mm again, and I picked up a big box of birdshot to feed my Mossy to get used to it. I qualified expert pistol in the Navy, but that was a long time ago.

9mm will go through multiple walls, too. Bird shot is for birds. Don't use it for home defense.

Anything strong enough to go through a person will also go through wood-frame walls.

 

[Bob P]

Baloney. Any 00 buck, whether full load or reduced recoil load will go through multiple sheetrock walls. Google the box of truth.

1145 FPS is around the same as a 9mm and that sure as SH will go through sheetrock

 

[Navy Moose]

I got the birdshot to get familiar with the weapon. The Federal stuff is for home defense.

9mm will go through multiple walls, too. Bird shot is for birds. Don't use it for home defense.

Anything strong enough to go through a person will also go through wood-frame walls.

 

[Blitz1]

I got a Knoxx SpecOps stock for my new baby, from what my friends tell me, recoil will be reduced by a considerable amount.

I have one on my 590A1, it works great!!

 

[Bob P]

I have one on my 590A1, it works great!!

I can attest to that as he let me kill pumpkins with it at the last shoot. The difference is pretty amazing - makes it actually pleasant to shoot slugs.

 

[RKG]

Here's the specific law regarding home defense that folks need to read and comprehend:
It's somewhat of a good news-bad news story. Good news in that self-defense from threat of great bodily injury or death is allowed and there is no duty to retreat inside one's home. Bad in that there is no explicit presumption that unlawful intruders automatically pose such a threat, and that there is no protection from being charged in such cases whereupon one must then prove this defense at trial.

There is something of a back story to the enactment of this statute. At the time, the SJC had just held that in Massachusetts (unlike elsewhere), the duty to flee extended to one's own home. Commonwealth v. Shaffer, 367 Mass. 508 (1975). There was sentiment in the General Court for reversing this decision, but not for going further. The judgment of GOAL at the time, with which I agreed, was that half a loaf was better than none.

This is what Shaffer held:

"The defendant asks us in this case to adopt the majority rule that one assaulted in his own home need not retreat before resorting to the use of deadly force. . . . This has never been the law of the Commonwealth, and we see no reason to adopt it now. We prefer instead to follow our long-established rule that the right to use deadly force by way of self-defense is not available to one threatened until he has availed himself of all reasonable and proper means in the circumstance to avoid combat. . . , and hold that this rule has equal application to one assaulted in his own home."

Be glad that the statute was enacted and that Shaffer is no longer the law of the Commonwealth.

 

[Titan]

I have one on my 590A1, it works great!!

So, there is no legal issue with the Knoxx stock? Do the 'evil features' of a pistol grip AND an adjustable stock not apply to shotguns?

I had been avoiding a shotgun for home defense based on concerns over recoil for other members of the family. The Knoxx stock would possibly change my outlook if there are no legal issues.

 

[M1911]

So, there is no legal issue with the Knoxx stock? Do the 'evil features' of a pistol grip AND an adjustable stock not apply to shotguns?

They apply to semi-auto shotguns, not to pump shotguns.

The definition of a large-capacity weapon is in MGL Ch140 S121:

“Large capacity weapon”, any firearm, rifle or shotgun: (i) that is semiautomatic with a fixed large capacity feeding device; (ii) that is semiautomatic and capable of accepting, or readily modifiable to accept, any detachable large capacity feeding device; (iii) that employs a rotating cylinder capable of accepting more than ten rounds of ammunition in a rifle or firearm and more than five shotgun shells in the case of a shotgun or firearm; or (iv) that is an assault weapon. The term “large capacity weapon” shall be a secondary designation and shall apply to a weapon in addition to its primary designation as a firearm, rifle or shotgun and shall not include: (i) any weapon that was manufactured in or prior to the year 1899; (ii) any weapon that operates by manual bolt, pump, lever or slide action; (iii) any weapon that is a single-shot weapon; (iv) any weapon that has been modified so as to render it permanently inoperable or otherwise rendered permanently unable to be designated a large capacity weapon; or (v) any weapon that is an antique or relic, theatrical prop or other weapon that is not capable of firing a projectile and which is not intended for use as a functional weapon and cannot be readily modified through a combination of available parts into an operable large capacity weapon.

The definition of "assault weapon" is in the same section:

“Assault weapon”, shall have the same meaning as a semiautomatic assault weapon as defined in the federal Public Safety and Recreational Firearms Use Protection Act, 18 U.S.C. section 921(a)(30) as appearing in such section on September 13, 1994, and shall include, but not be limited to, any of the weapons, or copies or duplicates of the weapons, of any caliber, known as: (i) Avtomat Kalashnikov (AK) (all models); (ii) Action Arms Israeli Military Industries UZI and Galil; (iii) Beretta Ar70 (SC-70); (iv) Colt AR-15; (v) Fabrique National FN/FAL, FN/LAR and FNC; (vi) SWD M-10, M-11, M-11/9 and M-12; (vi) Steyr AUG; (vii) INTRATEC TEC-9, TEC-DC9 and TEC-22; and (viii) revolving cylinder shotguns, such as, or similar to, the Street Sweeper and Striker 12; provided, however, that the term assault weapon shall not include: (i) any of the weapons, or replicas or duplicates of such weapons, specified in appendix A to 18 U.S.C. section 922 as appearing in such appendix on September 13, 1994, as such weapons were manufactured on October 1, 1993; (ii) any weapon that is operated by manual bolt, pump, lever or slide action; (iii) any weapon that has been rendered permanently inoperable or otherwise rendered permanently unable to be designated a semiautomatic assault weapon; (iv) any weapon that was manufactured prior to the year 1899; (v) any weapon that is an antique or relic, theatrical prop or other weapon that is not capable of firing a projectile and which is not intended for use as a functional weapon and cannot be readily modified through a combination of available parts into an operable assault weapon; (vi) any semiautomatic rifle that cannot accept a detachable magazine that holds more than five rounds of ammunition; or (vii) any semiautomatic shotgun that cannot hold more than five rounds of ammunition in a fixed or detachable magazine.

A pump shotgun is not semi-automatic, and therefore is neither a large capacity weapon nor assault weapon according to MA law. A semi-automatic shotgun, on the other hand, might be.

Full text here: http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/140-121.htm

 

[EddieCoyle]

So, there is no legal issue with the Knoxx stock? Do the 'evil features' of a pistol grip AND an adjustable stock not apply to shotguns?

I had been avoiding a shotgun for home defense based on concerns over recoil for other members of the family. The Knoxx stock would possibly change my outlook if there are no legal issues.

You can do pretty much whatever you want to a pump shotgun, as long as the barrel is longer than 18".

 

[Titan]

M1911, Eddie Coyle,

Thanks for the clarification, guys.

 

[M1911]

You can do pretty much whatever you want to a pump shotgun, as long as the barrel is longer than 18".

Don't you have to watch the overall length as well?