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H&K Legal, scratch that, MA Compliant... As Of......
- Thread starter SilentOverlord
- Start date
![[party]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/021.gif "Party [party]")
I feel like I need a USP, not that I can hope to afford it til probably this summer, but I want one (before marsha tries to put an end to their sales)
DickWanner
Banned
Gonna be a long time to a MA dealer. Only the USPc in .357sig is MA-compliant.
Dick, thanks for the reply. Although I'm confused.
The AG APPROVED FIREARMS ROSTER 12-2010 lists:
Heckler & Koch USP .40 S&W
Heckler & Koch USP Comp LEM .40 S&W
I'm interested in the USP-C LEM version. Am I missing something?
The AG APPROVED FIREARMS ROSTER 12-2010 lists:
Heckler & Koch USP .40 S&W
Heckler & Koch USP Comp LEM .40 S&W
I'm interested in the USP-C LEM version. Am I missing something?
"So sayeth 4 seasons, so sayeth the Lord"
DickWanner
Banned
I'm probably the confused one then. I thought that the only .40 was the USP full-size, seems I was confusing LEM with .357 or something like that. My apologies about the mix up.
Even with the trigger HK is attempting to sell it as MA-compliant.
Last I talked to the regional sales rep, they're going to try and sell all four of the EOPS roster models in MA. We'll see what happens with that.
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@ Dick,
I was unaware of the stupid Roaster Vs. Regulation situation.
However the H&K USPc .40 LEM is still at 7lb pull, thus cannot be sold. I also assume that 4Seasons is up to date on what's in or out.
I just picked up my LTC yesterday,
When I shot USPc for the first time up in Manchester.....just fell in love with it. I did feel it was made for me...
I was unaware of the stupid Roaster Vs. Regulation situation.
However the H&K USPc .40 LEM is still at 7lb pull, thus cannot be sold. I also assume that 4Seasons is up to date on what's in or out.
I just picked up my LTC yesterday,
When I shot USPc for the first time up in Manchester.....just fell in love with it. I did feel it was made for me...
DickWanner
Banned
@ Dick,
I was unaware of the stupid Roaster Vs. Regulation situation.
However the H&K USPc .40 LEM is still at 7lb pull, thus cannot be sold. I also assume that 4Seasons is up to date on what's in or out.
I just picked up my LTC yesterday,
When I shot USPc for the first time up in Manchester.....just fell in love with it. I did feel it was made for me...
It's a bit more complicated than "it does/doesn't meet the regulations and can/can't be sold". That and I wouldn't assume anything when it comes to anything related to MA gun laws. Doesn't the USP/USPc have an external safety? That would negate the need for a 10lb trigger pull.
This is a poor assumption to make. I like FS, but every gun shop in MA assumes different levels of risk regarding handgun compliance, especially at the AG regs level.
For example when the M&P 45 hit the roster some shops were selling them, some were not. Some sold them for a short while, then stopped, then started selling them again once the fruity mc gay gay trigger version entered the market. A few didn't care and sold the version with the safety on it the whole time, believing the safety exempted the AG reg 10 pound pull requirement.
The same thing happened with the SW1911SC commander. It changed part numbers (Now its a 1911PD something or other) after being out a
year or so, some dealers wigged out and stopped selling them, and waited for the new rosters to come out with the new part number listed on it. Others just kept selling them the whole time, knowing that was going to happen anyways and the issue was going to be 110% moot legally. Also, when the 1911SC first came out, even though it was roster listed a lot of dealers were chickens**t about selling them... on the other hand, a few dealers said they got word from their disti that the guns were MA OK, and sold them right out of the gate.
A lot of shops (hell, I would say most) in MA, only sell what their distributors say is "MA OK". Obviously if they use different distributors those opinions might vary. Some shops make their own interpretations backed up by (whatever).
It's not worth worrying about whether it's "technically" compliant or not. The limiting factors to an MA licensed buyer are what the dealer will sell you, or not, and whether or not the gun/mags are AWB compliant. (The gun is usually not a problem, but postban mags that hold more than 10 rounds are definitely a problem. )
-Mike
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Yup. Some shops have had rather unpleasant dealings with the AG in the past, and as a result are very conservative.
Alright this is what I gathered. I called eopss and talked to the firearm division and the hk usp 40 compact that is on the list is legal to own but it is not on the dealer list. Meaning it is legal to own bit dealers will not sell it. So to own it you have to buy one that is already in MA through a fa-10 transfer. I asked about buying the gun from an out of state ffl and getting it transfered to an ffl here and was told that it would not work bc the dealer still has to obide by the regulations
On "the list"? What list is this that you are speaking of? It is on the Approved Firearms Roster.
"Not on the dealer list." What is this? There is no "dealer list."
There is the Approved Firearms Roster and there is the AG's Consumer Protection regulations (CMR 16.00). That's it. Read them.
I don't think the AG has a list, I think she just calls dealers every now and again and threatens to charge them with selling guns that she hasn't approved. The whole system is pretty f-ed up.
Once again, with feeling, THERE IS NO AG LIST
Back in March 2010 I had posted
I had incorrectly said it would be done by 2010 - but I'm glad to see the USP 40's and the P2000's good to go early 2011. The P2000 pistols are going to be made in .357 only going forward. HK is discontinuing the .40cal P2000 and P2000SK. Buy you can just buy a .40cal barrel and drop it in. I actually have HK .40cal P2000 and P2000SK barrels in stock.
I spoke to HK at the Shot Show - and they are very interested in bringing more pistols to market in Massachusetts. They are currently going thru the testing.
Every other company whos guns are not for sale in our state are afraid to sell guns in our state. Many of them flat out say they have no desire to sell guns in our state.
Other manufacturers such as Beretta have a few older pistols for sale such the model 92 - but refuse to test new guns as they come out (such as the PX4).
HK will be one of a very small number of manufactures with a range of guns for sale in our state. I really hope people buy them - to prove it is a good investment for a manufacturer to test pistols for sale in Mass.
If we don't buy them, why would other manufacturers jump to the Massachusetts hoops?
I keep telling HK - test the guns. Mass gun owners will buy them. I hope I am right.
I had incorrectly said it would be done by 2010 - but I'm glad to see the USP 40's and the P2000's good to go early 2011. The P2000 pistols are going to be made in .357 only going forward. HK is discontinuing the .40cal P2000 and P2000SK. Buy you can just buy a .40cal barrel and drop it in. I actually have HK .40cal P2000 and P2000SK barrels in stock.
I spoke to HK at the Shot Show - and they are very interested in bringing more pistols to market in Massachusetts. They are currently going thru the testing.
Every other company whos guns are not for sale in our state are afraid to sell guns in our state. Many of them flat out say they have no desire to sell guns in our state.
Other manufacturers such as Beretta have a few older pistols for sale such the model 92 - but refuse to test new guns as they come out (such as the PX4).
HK will be one of a very small number of manufactures with a range of guns for sale in our state. I really hope people buy them - to prove it is a good investment for a manufacturer to test pistols for sale in Mass.
If we don't buy them, why would other manufacturers jump to the Massachusetts hoops?
I keep telling HK - test the guns. Mass gun owners will buy them. I hope I am right.
HK always says crap like this but half the time it's a lie. I think it's a weird ploy by them to get people to buy more handguns. (For example, every time they opened their mouth about the P7 going out of production, people would buy craploads of them. They did this like 2 or 3 times. )
Where are all the new HK's on the EOPS roster, then? the guns they have listed now are the same ones that have been on there for over 4 years.
Some of this is because the burden of compliance (especially wrt the AG's imaginary, vacuous regs) outstrips the profit the company might make on a
given model. MA has a relatively small pool of potential buyers.
Beretta is just bizarre anyways. Their market share on the new stuff is pretty small, so maybe they think they won't sell enough to justify it.
I'll believe it when I see it. So far this smells mostly like vaporware, and we're not past the "AG whining window" yet, either.
-Mike
I'm with Mike here.
For the 1000th time, the story that "we're testing (old models) for the MA EOPS compliance" BS may work for the masses who know nothing about the testing process, but it is ALMOST IDENTICAL to the testing for CA and if they had been smart, they would have done both tests at the same time and all they would have to do is submit the results to BOTH CA and MA. They can always submit the old test results to MA as long as the testing covered the few minor differences. In the days when I ran a product safety test lab, adding another test or two and another sample was only a marginal cost difference.
The AG BS is the real reason most don't bother and that is no doubt what has H&K nervous. And yes, the AG can bitch and cite them at any time. It's a game of "gotcha" and the AG holds all the cards, with no administrative or judicial recourse to the mfr.
And just like Fox, I was told by H&K at the IACP Convention in 2006 that they would have more MA compliant models "shortly"! Well it is 5 years later and nothing has really changed of significance, has it?
pdm
NES Member
And on what theory do you hang your hat? "It's not fair" is going to get you booted out of court. It has to be persuasive and have the right plaintiffs.
