Fudd sighting: marshvegas

[josh2600]

Personally I will not shoot on the outdoor range when this FUDD is on duty, regardless of what I brought to shoot.

WHY? If you and mostly everyone else think he's full of shit, why would you not tell him to FOAD?

 

[Garys]

I belong to a club that doesn't have range officers per se. We're told that we are all range officers and that we all have a responsibility to make sure that we maintain a safe environment for shooting. The only rule I know of at my club in regard to types of guns is that full auto needs the prior approval of the BOD. Since I've only seen one person firing full auto (FFL testing a repair), it doesn't seem to be an issue.

BR&P has nice facilities and maybe because it's so busy they need ROs. That's their business, but they should make sure that they maintain consistency and don't let ROs make up rules on the fly. We get enough of that from the anti gun .gov already.

 

[MisterHappy]

It's a Club. If you don't like the rules, you must either a) change them; or b) leave, and find more pleasant surroundings.

 

[not new guy]

I don't understand FUDDery. My little spat at BR&P made me not renew when it was up and I had moved away anyway. Had I stayed in the area, I'd have gone elsewhere. What kills me is that they're as bad as the antis with their hate of all things semi auto. You'd think you were talking to Shannon Twatts herself when they tell you that there is no need for a magazine that can hold 30 rounds.

I know its a generational thing. I know its coming from a time where there was never any threat of losing on what is a civil right. I just wish they understood full well that its not about this rifle or that rifle, that their .30.30 is just as at risk as my Glock, as your Bushmaster, but to hear them talk, they are little more than ill informed cheerleaders for .gov and the ignorant PACs like MDA and the like.

Its very,very hard to respect my elders when my elders intentionally lead me astray.

That's why you respect individuals, not ages. Lots of old douchebags out there.

 

[warwickben]

To the issue of how the 5-6 rd rules at many clubs came about . . . and this is purely speculation on my part from stories told to me by members of my PREVIOUS club in the mid-1970s to early-1980s. It was common for members (bullseye shooters) to "customize" (gunsmith) their 1911s with no skills and end up with a Full-Auto 1911. Thus the theory that if you limited the number of rounds to no more than what NRA allows loaded for a bullseye match, you limit the potential for damage. It actually makes sense IMNSHO . . . but ONLY when you are checking a gun for function after some work . . . NOT for daily shooting!!

I've been told this a lot . Limit rounds in mags cause semi auto guns can randomly go full auto as they get old.

Lens I was told the NRA rules was to even the field for wheel guns vs semi autos?





My dad is in his 60's he's a fudd when it comes to the laws , butt dose mag dumbs all the time so it's not allways a age thing. I've had people my own age say fudd things like.

Zombie targets are illegal.
Shouldn't load more one round in a mosin cause surplus can explode.
Why do you need a 30rd mag etc .

 

[Asaltweapon]

It's a Club. If you don't like the rules, you must either a) change them; or b) leave, and find more pleasant surroundings.

If you really don't like the rules but want to stay at the club you could always

c) Get more involved by getting elected to the board or gain enough traction, obtain backing from like minded members and change the rules.

 

[Bendad97]

What a douche nozzle.

 

[Tyke]

That's why you respect individuals, not ages. Lots of old douchebags out there.

Got that right. I've shared the line with responsible younger folks (with appropriate guardianship) ... and packed up and left when douche nozzles took up positions on the line. Or when a FUDDish RO @ BRP decides to stand a very short distance away from me and just glare the entire time I was shooting on the outdoor range. I get it, I'm the only one on the range. Watch from a distance not like a proctologist with both hands on my shoulders!

 

[teaser452]

yep. I was shooting an SAR-1 there years ago - had 3 30 rd mags a 40 and a 10 - a FUDD told me that he'd better never see "them banana clips" ever again or he'd have the range officer confiscate my weapon and call the Braintree PD. When I signed up they said nothing about magazine limits, they only asked that we didn't rapid fire.

I told the guy to pound sand. He said he was personal friends with the club's president. I said I was very impressed and continued to burn through the magazines. He had a few things to say about "disrespectful kids" (I was in my 20s then) and muttered something about the next board meeting. I made sure I was at that meeting - he was nowhere to be found and nothing came of it.

I'm all for safety, was then, am even moreso now. I don't remember ever being so annoyed.

What you do with this is pull the old Ferris Bueller act. YOU call the police. Explain how this man just threatened you on a gun range. I know Fudds are pussies, but he could have shot you. Take pictures of him and his vehicle. You were being harassed. Use the police to beat down the progressives.

I've had enough Fudd experiences. I hate Fudds. But make sure you turn the tables on them every chance you get.

 

[KBCraig]

The funny thing is that Fudds tend to be the least safe people on the range, and in the field -- no trigger finger discipline, leaning loaded guns up against trees in camp, etc.

I've only belonged to self-policing clubs. I only ever will. I was shocked to find out that there are ROs at membership ranges at all -- I can see them at rental ranges open to the public by the hour, but clubs that charge $70-200/yr and have a screening process for membership should have no need at all for ROs.

 

[kalash]

This thread makes me happy to drive 45min to a "good" non-FUDD club. Last time I was there trying to gauge my accuracy when dumping a 15 round Glock mag as fast as possible, the only comment I had was essentially "cool, what gun is that?" I also used to belong to a club that made you sign in every time and list the calibers you'd be shooting... emphasis on "used to".

Well about the only positive I can come up with in regards to the 10 round mag limit is that it slows me down, and by default saves me (an immaterial amount really) ammo. Maybe this club is trying to help you save money?

If I only have an hour to shoot, and have to reload after 6 rather than 10, I'm saving 40% more than I did with the wild, unpredictable 10 round mag...



This club sounds like the least fun place to shoot in the world. While better than not shooting... It just sounds... Like it sucks all the fun out of it, lol. Only time I've even been questioned is to ask what I'm shooting, but then again, I shoot in a Free State, who has Pits dedicated to enjoying yourself if you don't want to just sit/stand at a line and shoot paper plates.

This is so true!

 

[Tyke]

This thread makes me happy to drive 45min to a "good" non-FUDD club. Last time I was there trying to gauge my accuracy when dumping a 15 round Glock mag as fast as possible, the only comment I had was essentially "cool, what gun is that?" I also used to belong to a club that made you sign in every time and list the calibers you'd be shooting... emphasis on "used to".



This is so true!

I've always wondered why BRP wants people listing the calibers they're shooting. And also why they believe people actually write down the truth.

 

[Garys]

The funny thing is that Fudds tend to be the least safe people on the range, and in the field -- no trigger finger discipline, leaning loaded guns up against trees in camp, etc.

I've only belonged to self-policing clubs. I only ever will. I was shocked to find out that there are ROs at membership ranges at all -- I can see them at rental ranges open to the public by the hour, but clubs that charge $70-200/yr and have a screening process for membership should have no need at all for ROs.

This. I've shot at commerical ranges down south and the all have range officers. I understand that and think it's prudent.

 

[Len-2A Training]

WHY? If you and mostly everyone else think he's full of shit, why would you not tell him to FOAD?

Because the RO on duty's word is law! That's the order from our CRO. You do that and you'll be shown the gate, that's his way of doing things. I don't do that crap but also expect other ROs to respect my interpretation of our rules when I'm on duty. I had one instance of another RO (while I was on duty) tell me to get lost that he's handling everything after I stopped someone from handling guns while others were down-range changing targets (BTW, that other RO told her to do this).

I have a list of who is supposed to be on duty any particular shift and use that to judge when I won't be on the outdoor range. It really is easy as there are only 2 A-hole ROs that I avoid like the plague.

I've always wondered why BRP wants people listing the calibers they're shooting. And also why they believe people actually write down the truth.

That's only for visitors, NOT Members. I have no idea why they request calibers. That said, MF&G has a sign-in log and all members have to list calibers . . . again no idea why.

 

[josh2600]

Because the RO on duty's word is law! That's the order from our CRO. You do that and you'll be shown the gate, that's his way of doing things. I don't do that crap but also expect other ROs to respect my interpretation of our rules when I'm on duty. I had one instance of another RO (while I was on duty) tell me to get lost that he's handling everything after I stopped someone from handling guns while others were down-range changing targets (BTW, that other RO told her to do this).

I have a list of who is supposed to be on duty any particular shift and use that to judge when I won't be on the outdoor range. It really is easy as there are only 2 A-hole ROs that I avoid like the plague.




That's only for visitors, NOT Members. I have no idea why they request calibers. That said, MF&G has a sign-in log and all members have to list calibers . . . again no idea why.

Are they that hard up for RO's? The way you made it sound, no one is alright with this guy's rules, so why not, as a club, tell him to get on board or take a hike?

 

[teaser452]

Any club that needs ROs is not a club I want to join or would ever join. Jeezum people. Do they have arse wipers at your clubs? Do they have milk and cookie time too?

 

[Len-2A Training]

Are they that hard up for RO's? The way you made it sound, no one is alright with this guy's rules, so why not, as a club, tell him to get on board or take a hike?

You are right and I've mentioned that to our CRO personally. Finding reliable ROs for during weekdays, that actually show up 52 days/yr isn't easy.

Reason for ROs is due to some bullets hitting a commercial building 660 yds downrange a number of times and the NRA range experts we brought in writing in their report that we should not allow any shooting w/o ROs present. That sealed our fate wrt ROs.

 

[dcmdon]

Willbdavis said something earlier in this thread like

Younger people don't want to go to the range and put 6 highly precise shots on a piece of paper.

But I'll tell you something. After a while, I can usually lure some in. When i go to the range, I may arrive with a cool NFA toy. Dump a few rounds down range, whatever. But I'll often finish up by pulling out a (sinister black) bolt action rifle and proceed to put holes into a grup 1 10th the size of the novice 22 year old with the AR with the stupid accessories.

Often they will come over (the bolt gun IS black) and ask about it. I'll let them shoot it and they will typically immediately shoot better than they were with their AR with the UTG vertical forgrip, 45 deg sights, flashlight, laser, swiss army knife, and firestarting kit.

If they like guns, truly like guns, then your best bet is to just let them blast away. Even if they are just stupidly sending ammo downrange. Its their money.

Eventually they will get bored and want to learn to 1) shoot really fast, i.e. USPSA rifle match or 2) Learn to shoot precisely, at distance.

More experienced shooters should try to help these new shooters get some experience in areas they don't know.

Personally, I started out in .22 bulls eye in middle school. Then in college I started shooting practical games when i got a 9mm for self defense. Then i moved onto Trap, then sporting clays, then CMP style matches, then back to IDPA and 3 gun type stuff, then finally long distancce precise shooting.

Its all fun. Every time I shifted gears, there was more to learn, and learning is what makes this stuff fun.

To the Fudds and young consumers of UTG and Tapco accessories, open your mind. You have nothing to lose, but your ignorance.

 

[jhagberg88]

Willbdavis said something earlier in this thread like

Younger people don't want to go to the range and put 6 highly precise shots on a piece of paper.

But I'll tell you something. After a while, I can usually lure some in. When i go to the range, I may arrive with a cool NFA toy. Dump a few rounds down range, whatever. But I'll often finish up by pulling out a (sinister black) bolt action rifle and proceed to put holes into a grup 1 10th the size of the novice 22 year old with the AR with the stupid accessories.

Often they will come over (the bolt gun IS black) and ask about it. I'll let them shoot it and they will typically immediately shoot better than they were with their AR with the UTG vertical forgrip, 45 deg sights, flashlight, laser, swiss army knife, and firestarting kit.

If they like guns, truly like guns, then your best bet is to just let them blast away. Even if they are just stupidly sending ammo downrange. Its their money.

Eventually they will get bored and want to learn to 1) shoot really fast, i.e. USPSA rifle match or 2) Learn to shoot precisely, at distance.

More experienced shooters should try to help these new shooters get some experience in areas they don't know.

Personally, I started out in .22 bulls eye in middle school. Then in college I started shooting practical games when i got a 9mm for self defense. Then i moved onto Trap, then sporting clays, then CMP style matches, then back to IDPA and 3 gun type stuff, then finally long distancce precise shooting.

Its all fun. Every time I shifted gears, there was more to learn, and learning is what makes this stuff fun.

To the Fudds and young consumers of UTG and Tapco accessories, open your mind. You have nothing to lose, but your ignorance.

so if i don't want to learn all that fancy stuff I'm ignorant?

 

[dcmdon]

I'm not saying you are ignorant in general.

Ignorance simply means a lack of understanding or knowledge. I was ignorant of the ways one shoots at long distances with precision, until this summer when I took a class at Sig, started reading and practicing.

I am still ignorant in the tactical use of a shotgun. i have no desire to learn that. Shotguns are for killing birds, in my mind. I am, and will remain willfully ignorant when it comes to tactical shotgun use.

So yes. To use your own words, You are ignorant of that fancy stuff.

Don

p.s. Think of it as an exercise in the application of the idea of the 4 stages of competence. All I'm hoping for is that people are curious enough to reach level two, Conscious incompetence. At least that way, you know what you don't know. Then curiosity and a desire to learn can come into play.

1) Unconscious incompetence
The individual does not understand or know how to do something and does not necessarily recognize the deficit. They may deny the usefulness of the skill. The individual must recognise their own incompetence, and the value of the new skill, before moving on to the next stage. The length of time an individual spends in this stage depends on the strength of the stimulus to learn.

2) Conscious incompetence
Though the individual does not understand or know how to do something, he or she does recognize the deficit, as well as the value of a new skill in addressing the deficit. The making of mistakes can be integral to the learning process at this stage.

3) Conscious competence
The individual understands or knows how to do something. However, demonstrating the skill or knowledge requires concentration. It may be broken down into steps, and there is heavy conscious involvement in executing the new skill.

4) Unconscious competence
The individual has had so much practice with a skill that it has become “second nature” and can be performed easily. As a result, the skill can be performed while executing another task. The individual may be able to teach it to others, depending upon how and when it was learned.

 

[Christian]

Because the RO on duty's word is law! That's the order from our CRO. You do that and you'll be shown the gate, that's his way of doing things. I don't do that crap but also expect other ROs to respect my interpretation of our rules when I'm on duty. I had one instance of another RO (while I was on duty) tell me to get lost that he's handling everything after I stopped someone from handling guns while others were down-range changing targets (BTW, that other RO told her to do this).

I have a list of who is supposed to be on duty any particular shift and use that to judge when I won't be on the outdoor range. It really is easy as there are only 2 A-hole ROs that I avoid like the plague.




That's only for visitors, NOT Members. I have no idea why they request calibers. That said, MF&G has a sign-in log and all members have to list calibers . . . again no idea why.

I think I've met one of them, I don't know what his beef is with me but every time he sees me he gives me the stink eye(even in the clubhouse in passing). I can only remember him ever being on the line once when I was there, and we didn't even speak to each other. At first I was wondering what it was that I may have done wrong. Then one day I was asking one of the other ROs a question and he walked by so I asked if he knew what his problem with me was(not sure how much you all communicate with each other) and he said not to worry, the guys just a dick and lots of others feel the same way.

Other than that the rest of the ROs have always been really cool. A few of the older guys even seem to light up a bit when they see the M1A come out of the bag and have come over to shoot the **** about it for a bit.

 

[Gman021]

Suck it up and spend a few more minutes on the road to get to Harvard.

 

[OfficerObie59]

You can thank the NRA for that one. For years and years they taught that any more than 5 in a mag was unsafe because the gun could run away if the sear wore out. Lots of clubs had that rule, even for revolvers. Some still do.

My club implemented the rule a couple years ago with the desire to prevent range damage assumed to be from rapid fire shooters to the overhead arbors in the pistol section. Frankly, I was and still am of the belief most of the damage was from intentional shots made at the structures and from people who simply suck at shooting.

Of course, you can't oppose it otherwise you get an instant lecture reminding you how the range got closed for nine years because someone dropped a round into a nearby mobile home park. While the concern is a legitimate one, either you take stock of your rounds or you don't. It's doesn't matter if you load 5 rounds or 30 rounds. Five rounds in the hands of dumbass will get the range closed just as easily as 30 will.

 

[willbdavis]

I've always wondered why BRP wants people listing the calibers they're shooting. And also why they believe people actually write down the truth.

I know one club that implemented a sign in sheet with calibers after some round went off range. Didn't help but it made some people feel better.

 

[Buggin]

You can thank the NRA for that one. For years and years they taught that any more than 5 in a mag was unsafe because the gun could run away if the sear wore out. Lots of clubs had that rule, even for revolvers. Some still do.


And then there's this guy:

Tell me they ran him out on a rail? Please?

 

[willbdavis]

Willbdavis said something earlier in this thread like

Younger people don't want to go to the range and put 6 highly precise shots on a piece of paper.

But I'll tell you something. After a while, I can usually lure some in. When i go to the range, I may arrive with a cool NFA toy. Dump a few rounds down range, whatever. But I'll often finish up by pulling out a (sinister black) bolt action rifle and proceed to put holes into a grup 1 10th the size of the novice 22 year old with the AR with the stupid accessories.

Often they will come over (the bolt gun IS black) and ask about it. I'll let them shoot it and they will typically immediately shoot better than they were with their AR with the UTG vertical forgrip, 45 deg sights, flashlight, laser, swiss army knife, and firestarting kit.

If they like guns, truly like guns, then your best bet is to just let them blast away. Even if they are just stupidly sending ammo downrange. Its their money.

Eventually they will get bored and want to learn to 1) shoot really fast, i.e. USPSA rifle match or 2) Learn to shoot precisely, at distance.

More experienced shooters should try to help these new shooters get some experience in areas they don't know.

Personally, I started out in .22 bulls eye in middle school. Then in college I started shooting practical games when i got a 9mm for self defense. Then i moved onto Trap, then sporting clays, then CMP style matches, then back to IDPA and 3 gun type stuff, then finally long distancce precise shooting.

Its all fun. Every time I shifted gears, there was more to learn, and learning is what makes this stuff fun.

To the Fudds and young consumers of UTG and Tapco accessories, open your mind. You have nothing to lose, but your ignorance.

Awesome! I'm being misquoted on a forum that has automatic quoting built in!

I used the term "by and large" intentionally.

For the record I am on friendly terms with young people who are nationally ranked shooters. One is Olympic material. I myself am a hack and I know it but even I spend time periodically at the 300 taking slow, careful shots. For me it can be like meditation.

Of course, I also enjoy a good full auto mag dump from time too time.

 

[browncoat]

yep. I was shooting an SAR-1 there years ago - had 3 30 rd mags a 40 and a 10 - a FUDD told me that he'd better never see "them banana clips" ever again or he'd have the range officer confiscate my weapon and call the Braintree PD. When I signed up they said nothing about magazine limits, they only asked that we didn't rapid fire.

I told the guy to pound sand. He said he was personal friends with the club's president. I said I was very impressed and continued to burn through the magazines. He had a few things to say about "disrespectful kids" (I was in my 20s then) and muttered something about the next board meeting. I made sure I was at that meeting - he was nowhere to be found and nothing came of it.

I'm all for safety, was then, am even moreso now. I don't remember ever being so annoyed.

Yesterday I was at BRP, got to listen to the sweet sound of fully automatic fire as I shot my old mil surplus bolt actions. Range officer was enjoying it just like everybody else.

 

[dgrafton]

The president and VP are apparently fighting to change things, but there a lot of dinosaurs that just plain don't like semi-auto rifles.

Fortunately that is self-correcting. Give it time and the dinosaurs disappear. Unfortunately with the existing rules you may never get a membership that will push for change.

 

[AngelKing]

mind you, this was around 2001-2002 or so. I only had that one issue with that one guy - Im not bashing BRP - I actually used to enjoy being able to go shoot at all hours of the night after work. My larger point was just about FUDDs in general and he was for me, at the time, KING FUDD.

I was in my mid 20s, I didn't know much better then.

Yesterday I was at BRP, got to listen to the sweet sound of fully automatic fire as I shot my old mil surplus bolt actions. Range officer was enjoying it just like everybody else.

 

[whacko]

This thread makes me happy to drive 45min to a "good" non-FUDD club. Last time I was there trying to gauge my accuracy when dumping a 15 round Glock mag as fast as possible, the only comment I had was essentially "cool, what gun is that?" I also used to belong to a club that made you sign in every time and list the calibers you'd be shooting... emphasis on "used to".


This is so true!

My club does this......the sign in/out thing is to have an idea who used the range last in case there is damage. Every time I show up I take a look around and make sure everyting is in good order before signign in. Last spring some asshat took a shotgun to the pistol range and fired at the 4x4 posts till it split in half!

As far as listing what cal I am shooting I just put multiple...........because there is no way there is enough room in the block to list everything! I've never been called out on that.