First pistol/CCW pistol

[Brettbot]

Hey everybody. I was wondering what you guys would suggest for a first pistol that would also be appropriate for concealed carry. I've got about $520 saved, and was wondering what to spend it on when I realized that, although I'm under 21, I can still get a CCW permit and buy a handgun, as long as it's from a private individual within New Hampshire. In any case, I realize that my choices are constricted by who's selling what in my area, but all I'm looking for is ideas. As long as it's semi-auto and reliable, I'm open to suggestions. I'm just trying to get outside my whole "wouldn't it be nice to get a P226 or a USP or a P99" mindset and set my sights somewhere more reasonable.

Oh, and in case you're wondering, I have fired a pistol before. My friend's dad's .45 SIG, which I suppose makes it a P220(?).

 

[Admin]

I would recommend going to a range that rents guns and try the ones you are considering out. It will give you a better feel for each gun and you will also be able to see which one you feel most comfortable with. If it is going to be a carry gun I would suggest at a bear minimum a compact.

USPc .45 or .40 should fit the bill.

 

[RKG]

While you've said this would be your first carry gun, you haven't said how much experience you have shooting handguns. And it isn't clear whether this would be an everyday carry or an occasional carry.

Assuming that you are new to pistols and revolvers, and the carry would be occasional, I'd recommend you find a good used 4" M17 S&W and pair it with a good used 4" M19 or the stainless equivalent. Use the .22 for learning to shoot, moving up to mid-range .38 loads in the 19 after you've acquired some skills. All the while, you can carry the 19 on occasion with a good holster (I'd recommend a so-called "pancake"), loaded with 95 or 125 grain .38 Spl +P loads.

Starting with either a centerfire or an auto is not, in my experience, a way that will lead to developing sound shooting skills. the world is full of guys who pack iron every day but can't hit the broad side of the proverbial barn. Don't add to that crowd.

 

[KMaurer]

Unless you've already got a lot of experience or plan on doing a hell of a lot of practice, I really would advise against a semi-auto for a first concealed carry gun. Sure they let your carry a lot more ammunition easily, and they're oh so much more cool than a old-fashioned wheel gun, but there are also a hundred different things that can go wrong. The absolute scariest sound in the universe is your carry gun going "click" when you absolutely, positively need it to go "boom" right this second.

Your choice.

Ken

 

[Lynne]

Unless you've already got a lot of experience or plan on doing a hell of a lot of practice, I really would advise against a semi-auto for a first concealed carry gun. Sure they let your carry a lot more ammunition easily, and they're oh so much more cool than a old-fashioned wheel gun, but there are also a hundred different things that can go wrong. The absolute scariest sound in the universe is your carry gun going "click" when you absolutely, positively need it to go "boom" right this second.

Your choice.

+1

Until you get more comfortable (and experienced) shooting, I suggest looking for a revolver. Since you're in NH you'll be able to find something that's really decent and won't break the bank. Once you get more proficient, you could then (if you wanted) trade the revolver in towards the purchase of a semi after you get to try some.

FWIW...

(btw - both Ken and I are instructors so we deal with folks fairly new to hand guns )

 

[SiameseRat]

Just to add my 2 cents... If you've got that much saved already, buy yourself a nice little .22 handgun. Shoot that for 6 months and continue to save for a good cary gun. Go to the range and get really good at shooting before you even consider carrying.
There is no point whatsoever in carrying a loaded gun if you do not have every last little detail of shooting completely ingrained in your body. Your mind won't be working. If the situation ever occurs that you need to fire that gun, if it isn't a natural extension of your body it isn't going to do you any good and you'll also wind up hurting somebody innocent if you're not careful.

OK- all the boogada boogada lecturey type stuff aside, I think revolvers are great. Get a nice little J frame. They're sweet. Maybe some laser sight grips? I think they're cool.

 

[Chris]

I'd take that $$, get a nice snubby and use the remainder for a good tactics class and practice ammo.

 

[C-pher]

OK- all the boogada boogada lecturey type stuff aside, I think revolvers are great. Get a nice little J frame. They're sweet. Maybe some laser sight grips? I think they're cool.

They may be cool, but I'm against Laser sights. I think that they teach bad aiming habits. People that use them exclusively I think never learn how to use the sights properly.

 

[Brettbot]

Thanks for the replies, everyone. I should have stated that although I mentioned them in the same breath, I don't expect to start carrying right away when I get my CCW. And indeed, I haven't had much practice, only putting about 100 rounds through the .45. As I said, it really depends on what I can find being sold person to person, I'm just looking for suggestions for things I might not have considered otherwise.

 

[SiameseRat]

OK- all the boogada boogada lecturey type stuff aside, I think revolvers are great. Get a nice little J frame. They're sweet. Maybe some laser sight grips? I think they're cool.

They may be cool, but I'm against Laser sights. I think that they teach bad aiming habits. People that use them exclusively I think never learn how to use the sights properly.

I agree wholeheartedly C-pher. I don't think that relying solely on laser sights is good, but I was more thinking of a way to make a revolver "cooler". I have to admit when I get a J frame (isn't it sad I don't already have one?! [cry] ) I want laser sight grips. Don't really have an interest in getting them on anything else. But yes, you are correct sir!

 

[C-pher]

OK- all the boogada boogada lecturey type stuff aside, I think revolvers are great. Get a nice little J frame. They're sweet. Maybe some laser sight grips? I think they're cool.

They may be cool, but I'm against Laser sights. I think that they teach bad aiming habits. People that use them exclusively I think never learn how to use the sights properly.

I agree wholeheartedly C-pher. I don't think that relying solely on laser sights is good, but I was more thinking of a way to make a revolver "cooler". I have to admit when I get a J frame (isn't it sad I don't already have one?! [cry] ) I want laser sight grips. Don't really have an interest in getting them on anything else. But yes, you are correct sir!

Don't feel bad SR. I don't have a J frame either. My Wheel Guns consist of a Super Red Hawk in .44 Mag and a Charter Arms .38 snubby. But I'm planning on getting a airweight and some kind of 10 shot .22. But I'm starting to get into wheel guns. I don't know why...but they are really functional...and reliable.

And I agree, Laser Sights are cool...There's nothing like being freaked out when you see that red light on your body.

 

[KMaurer]

It's not something that most people would automatically think of, but I've found that Laser Sights to absolutely great for teaching not sight alignment/picture, but breath control, trigger squeeze and follow-through. Newbies often believe that they're maintaining their point of aim throughout the firing process. Put that little red dot on the classroom wall and they can immediately see just how and at what point they're moving. Even more, the get immediate feedback on their attempts to improve. Five minutes trying to stabilize that dot througout the shot process can be worth a couple of hours of practice without it, and a lot less irritating for both the instructor and the student.

Ken

 

[terrapin88]

My first handgun was a 44magnum with a 6" barrel. I had watched too many Clint Eastwood flicks and due to my inexperience and lack of guidance I chose the 44 thinking it was the most powerful. Duh, had I known about the 454 back then I would have chosen that instead. [roll]

Anyway, I love wheel guns and semi's equally but for someone who is just getting started and wanted a learning platform and a reliable weapon for carry I'd make a revolver my first purchase. Don't get a 44 like me as that was just plain dumb to learn on even though I got to where I stopped flinching and I enjoy a good kick and fireball. I'd be looking at smaller short barreled wheel guns but I'd go for a 357 as you can fire anything from low power target load 38's up to Corbon 357's in it. That gives you room to grow. Start with 38's and practice your way into the 357's.

Alot of folks are saying grab a 22 revolver to learn with which is fine if you got the money for both a 22 and a 357, but if you only buy a 22 and you are like me you may get bored with the 22 which could lead you to practice with it less.

A reputable safety or defense class is a must. I took one though I'd been shooting for a few years and I realized I had room for improvement.

One more thing, carrying a loaded weapon is a HUGE personal responsibility. Know your laws in your state concerning self defense and lethal force. Know where you can and cannot take that concealed weapon by law. And realize that God forbid if you ever have to shoot someone it will be a life changing event and you will most likely have to fight for your life once again in court. Plus it's $$$$$. I had an instructor tell me once if I had to shoot then empty the gun into your attacker. If he's dead then there's only your side of the story to tell the judge.

Good luck

C-

 

[C-pher]

It's not something that most people would automatically think of, but I've found that Laser Sights to absolutely great for teaching not sight alignment/picture, but breath control, trigger squeeze and follow-through. Newbies often believe that they're maintaining their point of aim throughout the firing process. Put that little red dot on the classroom wall and they can immediately see just how and at what point they're moving. Even more, the get immediate feedback on their attempts to improve. Five minutes trying to stabilize that dot througout the shot process can be worth a couple of hours of practice without it, and a lot less irritating for both the instructor and the student.

Ken

You know what? That makes a lot of sense. You might have changed my thoughts on picking up a laser sight.

 

[Jeremiah]

One recommendation against getting a j-frame snubby as a first gun. There are a lot of reasons why little snubs are great guns, but they are not the easiest guns to keep on target. Almost every 2" SW36 range session ends with me firing a few cylinders with my 4" SW66 just so that I can reassure myself that I don't suck. The main thing about the snub is: it's trigger is tough (a lot of friction--maybe this is what other people call "gritty") and I find it nearly impossible to keep the sights steady through the long DA trigger pull. Also, the tiny sights and short sight-radius makes for a large margin of error.

The way I see it, if you find it frustrating to hit where you're aiming, then you might stop going to the range altogether, which would be bad. So, I say that, for a first gun, it's better to get a gun that is easy to hit the target with, even if it's not the most concealable.

Ken, I'm going to have to think about getting some CT grips after reading your training tip.

 

[KMaurer]

BTW, anybody who's interested in CT grips and is thinking about the instructor class should wait until they get certified. CT (and a lot of other companies, e.g. Aimpoint, Henry, Beretta) give deep discounts to NRA instructors on some products. It varies from company to company, but CT knocks off over $100 on all their models.

Ken

 

[Cross-X]

OK- all the boogada boogada lecturey type stuff aside, I think revolvers are great. Get a nice little J frame. They're sweet. Maybe some laser sight grips? I think they're cool.

They may be cool, but I'm against Laser sights. I think that they teach bad aiming habits. People that use them exclusively I think never learn how to use the sights properly.

And don't put on a red-dot sight or a scope, and don't @#^&* unless you want to go blind. [lol]

 

[PatMcD]

although I'm under 21, I can still get a CCW permit and buy a handgun, as long as it's from a private individual within New Hampshire.

In NH, is an individual under the age of 21 able to buy a handgun in a gunshop?
If you can't buy it legally from a FFL holder (a gunshop), how can you legally buy it from an individual?

 

[mark056]

While J frames are beloved by many and true American revolver classics, in my estimation they are not the best choice for a beginner. A K or L frame revolver with a four inch barrel in .38 spl or .357 (although I would start using .38's) is a better choice. The suggestion that you get some kind of .22 and shoot thousands of rounds with it, is also excellent advice in my opinion, and then move up to a center fire handgun.

As a person under 21, how do you legally posess a handgun ? Maybe I am missing something here.

Mark

 

[Brettbot]

Don't know how I missed these last 2 posts before, but...

I was under the impression (which was backed up by at least two individuals on packing.org, although I can't get on the website to link to the discussion) that according to New Hampshire law, which states, in part, "It is unlawful to sell or give a handgun to a minor, unless the gift is from a parent, guardian or executor to a child, ward or heir.", there is nothing stopping me from purchasing a handgun from a private individual.

 

[Cross-X]

Don't know how I missed these last 2 posts before, but...

I was under the impression (which was backed up by at least two individuals on packing.org, although I can't get on the website to link to the discussion) that according to New Hampshire law, which states, in part, "It is unlawful to sell or give a handgun to a minor, unless the gift is from a parent, guardian or executor to a child, ward or heir.", there is nothing stopping me from purchasing a handgun from a private individual.

This may or may not be true, but the legal issue is not whether the NH state laws permit handgun ownership by minors, but rather the federal prohibition against handgun ownership by those who are under 21.

 

[SiameseRat]

Yes J frames can be snappy, I agree. I wasn't suggesting that as a gun to get right away, sorry if I wasn't clear. My point was to get a .22, shoot that religiously for at least 6 months and then maybe think of a J frame as a CCW.

 

[Brettbot]

This may or may not be true, but the legal issue is not whether the NH state laws permit handgun ownership by minors, but rather the federal prohibition against handgun ownership by those who are under 21.

Hmm... well, here's the link to the packing.org discussion. According to one of the replies, "Once the 4473 is filled out the Feds do not factor into the equation in private sales. As long as State Law allows it, you friends father could give or sell you a firearm. Then you would own it." I don't know if this is true or not (if I knew the answer I wouldn't have asked in the first place ), but since I've had two people back that up, and no one has come forward and said, "I know you can't do that.", I assumed it was correct.

 

[Cross-X]

This may or may not be true, but the legal issue is not whether the NH state laws permit handgun ownership by minors, but rather the federal prohibition against handgun ownership by those who are under 21.

Hmm... well, here's the link to the packing.org discussion. According to one of the replies, "Once the 4473 is filled out the Feds do not factor into the equation in private sales. As long as State Law allows it, you friends father could give or sell you a firearm. Then you would own it." I don't know if this is true or not (if I knew the answer I wouldn't have asked in the first place ), but since I've had two people back that up, and no one has come forward and said, "I know you can't do that.", I assumed it was correct.

Gee, you know what criminal defense lawyers call folks who get their knowledge of criminal law via anonymous chatrooms?

Yessiree, we call 'em "clients"!

C-X

 

[Brettbot]

Gee, you know what criminal defense lawyers call folks who get their knowledge of criminal law via anonymous chatrooms?

Yessiree, we call 'em "clients"!

C-X

Well, who would you suggest I go to to get a straight, official answer? I figured if anyone would know, it'd be the folks on here or on packing.org, but since there's a difference of opinion, I suppose I'll have to look elsewhere.

 

[Cross-X]

Here is a cut and paste from the www.atf.gov web site FAQ to get you started on your legal research project:

(B15) May a parent or guardian purchase firearms or ammunition as a gift for a juvenile (less than 18 years of age)? [Back]

Yes. However, possession of handguns by juveniles (less than 18 years of age) is generally unlawful. Juveniles may only receive and possess handguns with the written permission of a parent or guardian for limited purposes, e. g., employment, ranching, farming, target practice or hunting. [18 U. S. C. 922( x)]


Look up that law, and start your research from there. To view the law, vist www.findlaw.com and look it up.

 

[Brettbot]

Here is a cut and paste from the www.atf.gov web site FAQ...

Well, I sent an e-mail to the Boston office, which was the closest to me. Although I don't totally trust the BATF, let alone the BATF in Mass, we'll see what they say, if and when they get back to me.

On a happier note, I turned in my application for my Concealed Carry license today.

 

[Brettbot]

For anyone who's interested, I still haven't gotten a reply from the BATFE, but at the gun show in Manchester today, I asked Sam Cohen, member of the board of directors of Gun Owners of New Hampshire about the law, and he told me that in New Hampshire it is legal for someone between 18 and 21 to buy a handgun from a private individual within the same state provided the seller is either "personally known" to the buyer or, if not, the buyer shows the seller his CCW license, and the seller has no reason to believe that the buyer is prohibited from buying a gun due to a dishonorable discharge or a restraining order or a felony conviction or any other standard reason.