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Feeling anti-tactical

Da_lucche said:
Thats fine by me. But I am kind of curious to find out where does billy bad ass fit in there though? That kind of threw me for a loop.
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If your simply going to the range wearing the gear just to wear it and not to actually use it or understand it then simply stated, that person is a fool and as I said, a billy bad ass. My opinion.
 
shadowr434 said:
If your simply going to the range wearing the gear just to wear it and not to actually use it or understand it then simply stated, that person is a fool and as I said, a billy bad ass. My opinion.
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Disagree. The dumbass wearing the gear around the house and everywhere BUT the range is the tool. I'm not clear on how one would wear the gear to the range and not use it? If you are shooting while wearing the plate carrier then you are using it. I don't see anybody practicing getting shot at.
 
bigblue said:
Disagree. The dumbass wearing the gear around the house and everywhere BUT the range is the tool. I'm not clear on how one would wear the gear to the range and not use it? If you are shooting while wearing the plate carrier then you are using it. I don't see anybody practicing getting shot at.
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I assumed he meant someone who just wears the gear more or less like a fashion statement while standing around shooting the shit (pun intended) and putting no practice in.
 
warwickben said:
It's like a iron man and shooting competition mixed. I haven't done the hora dolor yet but I've done the other one, I'm not even gonna try to spell lol.
159b5da2529ba128c17bd6b5bf495d39.jpg

Don't have to go all tactical just need to carry your ammo some how.
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Jeans??? That's like a -5 in the tacticcoolness scale factor.
 
bigblue said:
Disagree. The dumbass wearing the gear around the house and everywhere BUT the range is the tool. I'm not clear on how one would wear the gear to the range and not use it? If you are shooting while wearing the plate carrier then you are using it. I don't see anybody practicing getting shot at.
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I wear my plates and vest when I go to the range to get used to shooting with it on, Ive also gone on a hike wearing it to see what thats like as well. Truth be told it sucks and its not much fun, I think wearing it around the house all day incase of a home invasion or SHTF then that might be a little over the top lol
 
Da_lucche said:
Where else would you put time and practice into using your said equipment? In your living room? I have no qualms in saying I've worn my gear to my range before and why not if it's the only place I have available to me to practice using it?
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Mom's basement, duh.
 
SHOCKNAWE said:
I wear my plates and vest when I go to the range to get used to shooting with it on, Ive also gone on a hike wearing it to see what thats like as well. Truth be told it sucks and its not much fun, I think wearing it around the house all day incase of a home invasion or SHTF then that might be a little over the top lol
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russian spetsnaz would wear them all the time. Playing basket ball was pretty funny to hear . One of there first commanders said after wearing 26 lbs of ti plates for weeks on end . You felt super human with out them .
 
AllaSnackbah said:
Mom's basement, duh.
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More people should practice in[STRIKE=1] your own home[/STRIKE] Mom's attic. With the summer heat it is about as close to jungle conditions you can get without leaving the safety of your [STRIKE=2]own home [/STRIKE]Mom's house...
 
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shadowr434 said:
If your simply going to the range wearing the gear just to wear it and not to actually use it or understand it then simply stated, that person is a fool and as I said, a billy bad ass. My opinion.
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I shot a Steel Challenge match today, and as I always do, I wear my battle belt. It's got my holster, tacos for mag carry, a dump pouch to collect loose gear and my bleeder/trauma kit. Today was extra special, because I still had 2 rifle mags on the belt and just left them on all day. What does that make me?
 
bigblue said:
More people should practice in[STRIKE=1] your own home[/STRIKE] Mom's attic. With the summer heat it is about as close to jungle conditions you can get without leaving the safety of your [STRIKE=2]own home [/STRIKE]Mom's house...
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i tried but the insulation makes my skin itchy, at least in the jungle you won't be itching and scratching like crazy, i hate that.
 
Today was an "EDC" day for us, "Every Day Carry". Which for me is my Glock 43 in an IWB and a long sleeve shirt, tails out. We did some drills first, a "Tueller" drill, which was funny because I only heard of it the other day reading about it here. Then a blind drill, start behind a wall, walk in, identify your threats, draw and neutralize them. Try not to "neutralize" anyone who's not a threat. Last drill was four threats, four non-shoots, two separate runs, both hands first, then strong hand only. The G43 holds 6+1, so it's a mandatory reload for me. Fun day.

Left the "battle-belt" in the car for a day where we're not doing EDC. Rode the bike anyway. With a spare gun tucked in the backpack in case the G43 wasn't enough for any zombies I ran into.
 
evan9201 said:
Ive found myself going anti-tactical lately, I find the way this word has become nothing but a marketing buzzword, sickening. I cant help but laugh at all these guy online with gear that looks like the Molle monster threw up on it, paying hundreds of dollars for classes run by guys that haven't been in a school yard fight in their entire lives, tactical head wags after every mag dump. I cant take it anymore, I will be carrying my old non tactical folding knife and my 1911. I think I will do just fine on the streets without my drop leg holster or $50 multicam hat.

Has anyone else been feeling like this?
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Gear queers
 
True, But many people and seemingly a large amount of famous instructors don't have the proficiency part squared away.
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There are a fair number of people out there who are "over coursed" and "under trained". I'm talking about the kind of person who has taken a crapload of classes from the big names (Farnham, Ayoob, Kappleson, Front Sight Academy, Gunsite, etc.) but still can't shoot.

They come back from these classes after paying a fat fee, get their ego stroked ("you are now better trained than most cops, blah, blah) but still can't shoot.
 
Rob Boudrie said:
There are a fair number of people out there who are "over coursed" and "under trained". I'm talking about the kind of person who has taken a crapload of classes from the big names (Farnham, Ayoob, Kappleson, Front Sight Academy, Gunsite, etc.) but still can't shoot. They come back from these classes after paying a fat fee, get their ego stroked ("you are now better trained than most cops, blah, blah) but still can't shoot.
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That's a pretty searing indictment Rob. I'd say at least in the case of LFI 1 if they can't shoot, at least they know when not to shoot, as much of Ayoob's training initially tends to focus on the dynamics of the application of lethal force. Gunsite used to offer several types of diplomas. I don't know if it still does today, including one that was merely a certificate of attendance. The crux of the matter of course is how does one define "can't shoot"? whose standards apply? This appears to be a continual evolution and on the crux of it highly subjective. Qualification scores, courses of fire? Square range standards? Bullseye NRA Camp Perry Standards ? Army Standards? LAPD Standards, NYPD Standards ? IPSC Standards, IDPA Standards, Hollywood Standards? Rob Boudrie Standards, mark056 standards ad nauseum.

One can argue that collectively the police are trained and meet regular "qualification" standards but as a group tend not to shoot well at least in the context of real world rounds expended per target hit ratio. You pose an interesting question. I would probably deal better with a poorer shot with training than an untrained poor marksman with the caveat that the well trained poor marksman is aware of his/her limitations and not a legend in his/her own mind. Overconfidence and arrogance is what gets people killed

. I do not profess to be a great shot. I have been trained and qualified in the Army on rifle and pistol and have attended courses at S&W and Sig Academies. I feel that I can protect myself under certain circumstances and first and foremost my objective is to avoid situations where I might have to use a firearm. I know my limitations and won't stray out of them. I am not saying this to be a braggart or to be self serving, but at the end of the day I really do think this is where a lot of gun owners are at.i
 
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mark056 said:
That's a pretty searing indictment Rob. I'd say at least in the case of LFI 1 if they can't shoot, at least they know when not to shoot, as much of Ayoob's training initially tends to focus on the dynamics of the application of lethal force. Gunsite used to offer several types of diplomas. I don't know if it still does today, including one that was merely a certificate of attendance. The crux of the matter of course is how does one define "can't shoot"? whose standards apply? This appears to be a continual evolution and on the crux of it highly subjective. Qualification scores, courses of fire? Square range standards? Bullseye NRA Camp Perry Standards ? Army Standards? LAPD Standards, NYPD Standards ? IPSC Standards, IDPA Standards, Hollywood Standards? Rob Boudrie Standards, mark056 standards ad nauseum.

One can argue that collectively the police are trained and meet regular "qualification" standards but as a group tend not to shoot well at least in the context of real world rounds expended per target hit ratio. You pose an interesting question. I would probably deal better with a poorer shot with training than an untrained poor marksman with the caveat that the well trained poor marksman is aware of his/her limitations and not a legend in his/her own mind. Overconfidence and arrogance is what gets people killed

. I do not profess to be a great shot. I have been trained and qualified in the Army on rifle and pistol and have attended courses at S&W and Sig Academies. I feel that I can protect myself under certain circumstances and first and foremost my objective is to avoid situations where I might have to use a firearm. I know my limitations and won't stray out of them. I am not saying this to be a braggart or to be self serving, but at the end of the day I really do think this is where a lot of gun owners are at.i
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mark i feel you are overthinking bobs statement amd making it too complex. I think what bob means is that there are quite a few people out there taking tactical classes and buying expensive tactical equipment in order to be able to shoot move and communicate when they cant hit a bull in the ass with a snow shovel. People in thic category would be better served spending their money on practice ammo and some lessons on pure marksmenship.


This is similar to folks in see shooting trap with guns that cost thousands......and their average score is 18. The thousands should have been spent on ammo and lessons and they would probably be hitting 23 and 24 with a $400 gun.

These are just my observations. People should spend their money on whatever the hell they want. Ill just sit back and chuckle to myself.
 
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jibbr71 said:
I shot a Steel Challenge match today, and as I always do, I wear my battle belt. It's got my holster, tacos for mag carry, a dump pouch to collect loose gear and my bleeder/trauma kit. Today was extra special, because I still had 2 rifle mags on the belt and just left them on all day. What does that make me?
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Smart.
 
whacko said:
mark i feel you are overthinking bobs statement amd making it too complex. I think what bob means is that there are quite a few people out there taking tactical classes and buying expensive tactical equipment in order to be able to shoot move and communicate when they cant hit a bull in the ass with a snow shovel. People in thic category would be better served spending their money on practice ammo and some lessons on pure marksmenship. This is similar to folks in see shooting trap with guns that cost thousands......and their average score is 18. The thousands should have been spent on ammo and lessons and they would probably be hitting 23 and 24 with a $400 gun. These are just my observations. People should spend their money on whatever the hell they want. Ill just sit back and chuckle to myself.
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If you say hardware such as clothing, equipment and firearms I totally agree. Nothing is more lethal in the world than the person with one gun who knows how to use it and the person in jeans, t shirt, beat up running shoes with a beat up 10/22 who has complete mastery of the weapon is far more formidable than the mall ninja with the finest 5.11 attire, the most tricked out AR in the world that weighs 17 lbs with all the accessories and a stack of diplomas from a bunch of tactical courses.

Where I might slightly disagree with Rob is that the name schools and many of the smaller schools demand a lot of range time and drill repetition. The big problem is that anybody can hang out a shingle, put on a pair of 5.11 BDU pants, a polo shirt a black baseball cap declare themselves an ex operator and open up their own shooting school and in turn create clones of themselves. No doubt some people who graduate from some of the name schools do become a bit legendary in their own minds, the same can be said for those who practice IPSC, IDPA and members of a certain gun club near where I live that have the same name as a famous university located on the banks of the Charles River. A superior sort of shooter by way of their game or affiliations and some but certainly not all will let you know it and the beauty of it is that you don't need to ask them, they will flat out tell you, just talk to them for five minutes.
 
I don't have an issue with people that spend a ton on classes and gear but still can't shoot. Their money, their decision. What I don't like is when the instructors can't shoot and relies on his students not knowing that to make money
 
Supermoto said:
I don't have an issue with people that spend a ton on classes and gear but still can't shoot. Their money, their decision. What I don't like is when the instructors can't shoot and relies on his students not knowing that to make money
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This...x thousand especially when the instructors belittle their students with profanity, tell "sea stories" and have absolutely valueless drills and "theories" about combat.
 
mark056 said:
Where I might slightly disagree with Rob is that the name schools and many of the smaller schools demand a lot of range time and drill repetition. The big problem is that anybody can hang out a shingle, put on a pair of 5.11 BDU pants, a polo shirt a black baseball cap declare themselves an ex operator and open up their own shooting school and in turn create clones of themselves.
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im not very "in" in the instruction world, but I'm under the impression that most of these guys get outted as a joke fairly quickly. For instance range time tactical, that guy tried telling people he was in the army, in reality he went awol and came up with some bs medical excuse and got out before basic was over. The community outted him and now he is banging nails for a living. Ive read stories of other guys doing similar and getting called out on it, there are several threads on professionalsoldiers.com about guys claiming to be ex green berets opening schools etc and they trash them, sometimes to the point of them getting arrested. Even guys who try to claim they are something they are not as civilian instructors, from what I've seen, get uncovered fairly quickly, the best thing about shooting and instructing is if the instructor sucks, have them put some rounds downrange, it will show on paper.
 
The problem is these guys a being outed for claiming to something they were not, Special force etc. They are not being outed due not being able to shoot
 
Supermoto said:
The problem is these guys a being outed for claiming to something they were not, Special force etc. They are not being outed due not being able to shoot
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also worth mentioning, nobody is getting outed for not being able to teach. you can be ex super military and a grand super wizard class competition shooter, but if you can't communicate to your students you are in the wrong line of work.
 

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