Anti-Depressants and shooting sprees

[dw617]

If you've ever seen someone have an allergic reaction you'd want to outlaw shellfish too, right? It's kind of like that

You should see the absolute sh!t show and ignorant views expressed in any of the opitate/narcan threads here. This SSRI thread is nothing.

 

[GL2020]

There's a world of difference between someone's body betraying them and a drug that can potentially make people go off the deep end / go full retard. I haven't heard about any school shooters correlated to like JIF or something.

No the idea that some people don't react well to certain meds like some don't react to certain foods.

Everyone is looking for a simple answer. SSRI's are not likely to be it any more than banning "big black guns".
There's a little too much of "Manson was a vegetarian so vegetarians are more likely to be mass murderers"

We can all point to that one guy we knew who had a bad reaction, but know nothing of the 1000's who didn't.

There are millions of people on these meds, and many are seeing positive benefits for both psych and sexual issues, and they're not shooting up bowling alleys and are not likely to.

The fact there are some wackos who chose to commit heinous crimes to me is certainly worth looking at any potential link, but I think it impossible to prove.

I see a huge social contagion and a disconnected/discontented/angry segment of the population with no purpose..broken families...no faith...no community involvement...just a mass of millions staring at their phones and unaware there are other humans in the world. It's a way to lash out at the world that has done them so wrong (in their twisted thoughts).

 

[GL2020]

You should see the absolute sh!t show and ignorant views expressed in any of the opitate/narcan threads here. This SSRI thread is nothing.

Seen them. Agree

 

[Dench]

You should see the absolute sh!t show and ignorant views expressed in any of the opitate/narcan threads here. This SSRI thread is nothing.

What do you mean?

 

[SgtHal75]

Here's the thing. For the vast majority of people they're not "extremely dangerous medications". In fact just the opposite...for most they're extremely beneficial.
When prozac first came out and other SSRI's that followed they were hailed as a miracle. In a sense they were. Prior to that MOA inhibitors and ticyclics were the only medicines available and both had severe side effects and for many did not do much good (and issues with taking other meds and eating certain foods).
I'd be the first to agree they are often over prescribed these days. But I tend to believe people who have serious issues and do violence are more likely to be on (or have been on) these medications...so ya correlation rather than the cause.

I've had members of my family greatly helped by them (and long term) and friends over the years that have used them with no ill effects. In at least one case I'd say they saved a friend's life.

There are also many cases where they are prescribed for off label uses too. Weird thing men noticed was delayed climax. Well guess what, many urologists prescribe SSRI's for premature ejaculation. How common is that with middle aged men?

Some SSRI's are prescribed for OCD and social anxiety disorders.

I reject the notion they're "extremely dangerous medications". I think it's more accurate to say extremely dangerous people have taken them and done extremely bad things. It like pointing at a homicidal manic who likes to drink. Millions of other people drink and are not homicidal.

I completely disagree with you. Anyone I ever know that has been on them is either dead or severely f***ed up. And they weren’t that bad before they went on them.

 

[Dench]

There are also many cases where they are prescribed for off label uses too. Weird thing men noticed was delayed climax. Well guess what, many urologists prescribe SSRI's for premature ejaculation. How common is that with middle aged men?

I think that's pretty wild. The side effects (the ones listed, as in the ones they admit to) are pretty rough. Not only are they bad, they are also common. Again, their data, not my opinion.

If I was blowing my load 25 seconds into sex you know what the last thing I would do is? Get on SSRIs. Literally, the last f***ing thing I would do for that. How about you learn how your dick works and beat off a few hours before you want to have sex so you can last? Nope, take some SSRIs, hur-de-durrrrrr

This garbage has a black box warning on them for a reason. We can look at that warning 2 ways. One, the people on it are already predisposed to self harm and/or the medication doesnt work well/makes it worse.

Sounds like a f*** job to me.

Call me crazy but I'm more interested in why so many people are depressed. I believe that they are. So what's causing it? probably our society and low physical activity primarily. But fixing those 2 things doesnt make pharma money.

How many times does the CDC/FDA/Pharma have to out itself before you guys start looking at them critically? They arent trying to cure anyone. They are trying to make money.

 

[GL2020]

I completely disagree with you. Anyone I ever know that has been on them is either dead or severely f***ed up. And they weren’t that bad before they went on them.

I’m living proof you’re wrong

multiple family and friends Used them.
also stop smoking meds are usually ssris (zyban=Wellbutrin)

 

[GL2020]

I think that's pretty wild. The side effects (the ones listed, as in the ones they admit to) are pretty rough. Not only are they bad, they are also common. Again, their data, not my opinion.

If I was blowing my load 25 seconds into sex you know what the last thing I would do is? Get on SSRIs. Literally, the last f***ing thing I would do for that. How about you learn how your dick works and beat off a few hours before you want to have sex so you can last? Nope, take some SSRIs, hur-de-durrrrrr

This garbage has a black box warning on them for a reason. We can look at that warning 2 ways. One, the people on it are already predisposed to self harm and/or the medication doesnt work well/makes it worse.

Sounds like a f*** job to me.

Call me crazy but I'm more interested in why so many people are depressed. I believe that they are. So what's causing it? probably our society and low physical activity primarily. But fixing those 2 things doesnt make pharma money.

How many times does the CDC/FDA/Pharma have to out itself before you guys start looking at them critically? They arent trying to cure anyone. They are trying to make money.

Depression is the common cold of psych ailments. It a question of degree
some born with it other reacting to the crazy world we all comment about. Always has been that way but it has only been in our lifetimes there was much any could do. Some people struggle during their 20s some in their 70s. Some all their lives. It’s not new just hear about more.

you’d be shocked how many men are taking 20mg of generic Zoloft to keep the Mrs happy. My urologist told me he hands them out like candy

 

[AJK129]

I think that's pretty wild. The side effects (the ones listed, as in the ones they admit to) are pretty rough. Not only are they bad, they are also common. Again, their data, not my opinion.

If I was blowing my load 25 seconds into sex you know what the last thing I would do is? Get on SSRIs. Literally, the last f***ing thing I would do for that. How about you learn how your dick works and beat off a few hours before you want to have sex so you can last? Nope, take some SSRIs, hur-de-durrrrrr

This garbage has a black box warning on them for a reason. We can look at that warning 2 ways. One, the people on it are already predisposed to self harm and/or the medication doesnt work well/makes it worse.

Sounds like a f*** job to me.

Call me crazy but I'm more interested in why so many people are depressed. I believe that they are. So what's causing it? probably our society and low physical activity primarily. But fixing those 2 things doesnt make pharma money.

How many times does the CDC/FDA/Pharma have to out itself before you guys start looking at them critically? They arent trying to cure anyone. They are trying to make money.

Ask yourself this, who in this thread works for a pharma company

 

[SgtHal75]

I’m living proof you’re wrong

multiple family and friends Used them.
also stop smoking meds are usually ssris (zyban=Wellbutrin)

I wouldn’t say I’m wrong, I just have the opposite of you. Like I said, I am also living proof through the people I know that went on them….they are either dead or are severely f***ed up.

To say that they are not a major part of everything that’s wrong with people that commit these heinous acts of violence is very amateur. do you even know what the drug does to the actual brain chemically?

Now, if you say that they’re not over prescribed you are 100% wrong and I’ll give you an example. Years ago we had a kid come on the job from co-op. He had to get off of them because he was being over prescribed them and they did a brain scan and the doctor told him his brain looked like the moon! And he basically had zero serotonin levels left. He wasn’t angry but he made Rocky Balboa look like an auctioneer and he was clueless to his surroundings. So once again I respectfully and humbly disagree with you 100%.

 

[GL2020]

Ask yourself this, who in this thread works for a pharma company

Not me. Work in IT at a private equity company. Just happen to have alot of first hand anecdotal experience, also wanted to be a doctor when I was younger until I figured out I really don't like people that much (that and I was poor, so there was that).
I was also misdiagnosed as depressed when i had Cushings in my 20's-30's (glandular issues often manifest as some possible psych issue...ask a menopausal woman)...took Wellbutrin to stop smoking in the early 2000's...horriblely ineffective anti-depressant but lots of people stopped smoking.

This thread is doing the exact same f***cking thing the people who want to ban semi-auto rifles are doing.
They're looking at a horrible societal issues, finding some element to attribute it to and saying "aha! That's it"
Same thing as ban "assault weapons" instead of looking for actual causes.

If you think SSRI's are bad/scary/dangeous dont' ever take them. But I know dozens who have and have benefited greatly. I know some who have they didn't help much or not enough to continue. Outside my DOC friend I personally only know one person who had a bad reaction and luckily it was short lived. I'm not saying they're not without rsik for some, I'm saying take the tinfoil hats off

 

[SgtHal75]

Not me. Work in IT at a private equity company. Just happen to have alot of first hand anecdotal experience, also wanted to be a doctor when I was younger until I figured out I really don't like people that much (that and I was poor, so there was that).
I was also misdiagnosed as depressed when i had Cushings in my 20's (glandular issues often manifest as some possible psych issue...ask a menopausal woman)...took Wellbutrin to stop smoking in the early 2000's...horriblely ineffective anti-depressant but lots of people stopped smoking.

This thread is doing the exact same f***cking thing the people who want to ban semi-auto rifles are doing.
They're looking at a horrible societal issues, finding some element to attribute it to and saying "aha! That's it"
Same thing as ban "assault weapons" instead of looking for actual causes.

If you think SSRI's are bad/scary/dangeous dont' ever take them. But I know dozens who have and have benefited greatly. I know some who have they didn't help much or not enough to continue. Outside my DOC friend I personally only know one person who had a bad reaction and luckily it was short lived. I'm not saying they're not without rsik for some, I'm saying take the tinfoil hats off

SsRi’z are the glue that holds crazy together

 

[Dench]

Not me. Work in IT at a private equity company. Just happen to have alot of first hand anecdotal experience, also wanted to be a doctor when I was younger until I figured out I really don't like people that much (that and I was poor, so there was that).
I was also misdiagnosed as depressed when i had Cushings in my 20's (glandular issues often manifest as some possible psych issue...ask a menopausal woman)...took Wellbutrin to stop smoking in the early 2000's...horriblely ineffective anti-depressant but lots of people stopped smoking.

This thread is doing the exact same f***cking thing the people who want to ban semi-auto rifles are doing.
They're looking at a horrible societal issues, finding some element to attribute it to and saying "aha! That's it"
Same thing as ban "assault weapons" instead of looking for actual causes.

If you think SSRI's are bad/scary/dangeous dont' ever take them. But I know dozens who have and have benefited greatly. I know some who have they didn't help much or not enough to continue. Outside my DOC friend I personally only know one person who had a bad reaction and luckily it was short lived. I'm not saying they're not without rsik for some, I'm saying take the tinfoil hats off

No one here is saying SSRIs should be banned. If someone wants to be chemically sedated to deal with life that is their choice.

I just come from the camp of getting rid of or managing depression triggers well before going jumping on medications.

There's probably plenty of people here who've already been on that ride who aren't comfortable talking about it. Not like it's a fun experience when the wheels fall off.

 

[GL2020]

I wouldn’t say I’m wrong, I just have the opposite of you. Like I said, I am also living proof through the people I know that went on them….they are either dead or are severely f***ed up.

To say that they are not a major part of everything that’s wrong with people that commit these heinous acts of violence is very amateur. do you even know what the drug does to the actual brain chemically?

Now, if you say that they’re not over prescribed you are 100% wrong and I’ll give you an example. Years ago we had a kid come on the job from co-op. He had to get off of them because he was being over prescribed them and they did a brain scan and the doctor told him his brain looked like the moon! And he basically had zero serotonin levels left. He wasn’t angry but he made Rocky Balboa look like an auctioneer and he was clueless to his surroundings. So once again I respectfully and humbly disagree with you 100%.

Dude no

You're wrong...just wrong. You couldn't be more wrong. You're looking at extreme bad cases and believing it's the norm or at least the case most often. The truth is what happens "most often" you don't hear about.

You knew a few people who sound like they were seriously f'ed to begin with who didn't get better, and SSRI's may have even even made the situation worse. At best it sounds like they didn't help, and their condition worsened (as it would have anyway without treatment). That's sad. it truly is. I wish we had better answers for those folks. I lost a friend last year to suicide. I get it. I'd like to blame something other than what it was, but I can't.

But offering your anecadotal evidence does not make it fact. And the fact is there are millions of dispostive cases you're just not aware of because the news doesn't put success stories on the front page. They don't go down to logan and report no planes crashed.

What you don't realize is when you're standing in line at Target or a crowded grocery store you're around dozens of people who have (or maybe are on them now) used SSRI's in the past. SSRI's are probably going down a bit in use now because shrinks tend to reach for mood stabilizers (like Lamotrigine) alot before SSRI's with many who seek help...they're cheaper and work faster with fewer side effects. There are still SSRI's being prescribed no doubt, but it's not always the first line of defense. It's well known SSRI's don't work for everyone and certain ones work better than others, but to call the entire class of meds dangerous based on your personal experience....wrong

And yes, I do understand how Selectrive Serotonin Re-Uptake Inhibitors work in the brain. They slow the collection of a neurotransmitter called serotonin to increase the over all level which has been linked to an improvement in certain psych conditions....although the NIH in the Uk recently calls that link into question. But yes, I do understand how they work beyond what is written on the label

 

[GL2020]

No one here is saying SSRIs should be banned. If someone wants to be chemically sedated to deal with life that is their choice.

I just come from the camp of getting rid of or managing depression triggers well before going jumping on medications.

There's probably plenty of people here who've already been on that ride who aren't comfortable talking about it. Not like it's a fun experience when the wheels fall off.

Using the word "sedated" in the same context as SSRI's tells me you don't know anything about SSRI's

 

[GL2020]

SsRi’z are the glue that holds crazy together

Well funny, but it may be enough to have that slightly depreseed mother now knocked on her ass with post-partum depression get out of bed and feed her infant.
Or my uncle...retired CIO of a multi-billion multi-national manufacturing company deal with his social anxiety and succeed to retire at 58 and do nothing but play stocks for fun
Or my buddy, who when he sobered up realized he was drinking cause he was depressed and just got 5 years clean

You want to call these people crazy?

 

[Dench]

Using the word "sedated" in the same context as SSRI's tells me you don't know anything about SSRI's

You'd be wrong. I lost a lot of my childhood to that shit.

You guys want to know why I know about this subject? Why I don't like them? Because I lived a nightmare with them.

I was able to find other reasons for my problems. The data was right there in front of probably a dozen MDs. The medications? A nightmare.

 

[GL2020]

You'd be wrong. I lost a lot of my childhood to that shit.

You guys want to know why I know about this subject? Why I don't like them? Because I lived a nightmare with them.

Then you were over prescribed or you're in that group it couldn't help.
They not for everyone. But the fact that there not for you doesn't mean they not for anyone

 

[SgtHal75]

Dude no

You're wrong...just wrong. You couldn't be more wrong. You're looking at extreme bad cases and believing it's the norm or at least the case most often. The truth is what happens "most often" you don't hear about.

You knew a few people who sound like they were seriously f'ed to begin with who didn't get better, and SSRI's may have even even made the situation worse. At best it sounds like they didn't help, and their condition worsened (as it would have anyway without treatment). That's sad. it truly is. I wish we had better answers for those folks. I lost a friend last year to suicide. I get it. I'd like to blame something other than what it was, but I can't.

But offering your anecadotal evidence does not make it fact. And the fact is there are millions of dispostive cases you're just not aware of because the news doesn't put success stories on the front page. They don't go down to logan and report no planes crashed.

What you don't realize is when you're standing in line at Target or a crowded grocery store you're around dozens of people who have (or maybe are on them now) used SSRI's in the past. SSRI's are probably going down a bit in use now because shrinks tend to reach for mood stabilizers (like Lamotrigine) alot before SSRI's with many who seek help...they're cheaper and work faster with fewer side effects. There are still SSRI's being prescribed no doubt, but it's not always the first line of defense. It's well known SSRI's don't work for everyone and certain ones work better than others, but to call the entire class of meds dangerous based on your personal experience....wrong

Yup…your right and me and everyone else is wrong u win the Internet today bruh
Be careful….sounds like you know a lot of time bombs.

 

[GL2020]

Yup…your right and me and everyone else is wrong u win the Internet today bruh
Be careful….sounds like you know a lot of time bombs.

Didn't say everyone else is wrong...just you

There are come conclusions I take issue wish or some opinions I disagree with

But this isn't a matter of opinion. You're factually incorrect

 

[SgtHal75]

Well funny, but it may be enough to have that slightly depreseed mother now knocked on her ass with post-partum depression get out of bed and feed her infant.
Or my uncle...retired CIO of a multi-billion multi-national manufacturing company deal with his social anxiety and succeed to retire at 58 and do nothing but play stocks for fun
Or my buddy, who when he sobered up realized he was drinking cause he was depressed and just got 5 years clean

You want to call these people crazy?

Dude really???? I think you need SSRI’sI’ll bite though….Did it help the lady who recently just strangled her kids with exercise bands???
Did it help the Uvalde shooter
Did it help the Nashville shooter
Did it help my ex
Did it help my 2 best friends who were decorated combat veterans (both veteran suicides)

We can do this all day.

 

[Dench]

Then you were over prescribed or you're in that group it couldn't help.
They not for everyone. But the fact that there not for you doesn't mean they not for anyone

I have no doubt they work for some people. Although I suspect it's mostly a placebo effect.

 

[drgrant]

No the idea that some people don't react well to certain meds like some don't react to certain foods.

Lol except that allergic reactions don't create random public danger/zombies/time bombs. I'm not saying the shit needs to be banned but it's weird enough that a GP shouldn't even be allowed to perscribe them without other considerations. SSRIs are way overperscribed in this country. Do they work? Sure, but imho there's rarely free lunch here.

Admittedly I am biased because I've spent a large portion of my life around people "on meds" and I'm very skeptical of their overally efficacy. I think there's a lack of attention on the dangers of the crap, pharma has the "well, they were already crazy so its not our fault" excuse but sometimes it's not abundantly clear that the drugs played zero role in making things worse.

 

[SgtHal75]

I have no doubt they work for some people. Although I suspect it's mostly a placebo effect.

I went to the VA for some sleep issues a few years ago…I got mild apnea and guess what???

Yup, here you go hard charger! Here’s you SSRIz!!! Fix you right up!

I said no thanks I’ll stick with the apnea

Those things are overprescribed, dangerous, and it’s all by design

 

[GL2020]

I have no doubt they work for some people. Although I suspect it's mostly a placebo effect.

I often wondered about that too. I wouldn't rule out at least some of that, but stuff like that typically doesn't last long term.
People are as different as rocks.

I've heard some says they felt "a little dead inside...they didn't feel bad...they felt nothing"...not high...not sedated....just kind of there.
Friend of mine wife was put on a new SSRI for mood swings related to early menopause. It helped with the mood swings alright, but her complaint was she felt kind of blah, so she stopped.
Knew a dude years ago that said he didn't think it helped his depression but he loved the vivid dreams he'd been having.

 

[SgtHal75]

 

[M1911]

Ask yourself this, who in this thread works for a pharma company

Not me. I work for a non-profit, academic research lab. I'm a software engineering manager and I don't work on anything to do with psychiatric medicine. The project I've worked on for more than a decade is basic biology research -- nothing to do with treatments or specific diseases. Nor do I own any individual pharma stocks; my investments are in broad market index funds like the S&P 500 (which, of course, do have pharma companies in the index).

There is a saying in the military about assumptions and you just made a big (and wrong) one. You're just making unfounded accusations against people who disagree with you.

 

[SgtHal75]

Didn't say everyone else is wrong...just you

There are come conclusions I take issue wish or some opinions I disagree with

But this isn't a matter of opinion. You're factually incorrect

 

[Dench]

There is a saying in the military about assumptions and you just made a big (and wrong) one. You're just making unfounded accusations against people who disagree with you.

What years did you serve? Branch? MOS?

Give me a break. For a guy who does non stop credentialism you sure love to larp.

 

[M1911]

What years did you serve? Branch? MOS?

Give me a break. For a guy who does non stop credentialism you sure love to larp.

I never said or implied that I served in the military. Just that there is a saying in the military about assumptions. It is one that you probably know.