-
If you enjoy the forum please consider supporting it by signing up for a NES Membership The benefits pay for the membership many times over.
Feeling anti-tactical
- Thread starter sig shooter
- Start date
SHOCKNAWE
NES Member
This thread has motivated me to spend an hour at our sandbox tomorow to do some very tactical shooting with my plates on in 90 degree heat, it will end up being very untactical but I will give it my best.
Do it! You only know what works when it doesn't.
dcmdon
NES Member
This is key.
I'm a decent shot. Not bad. I shot bulls eye for years. I (barely) made expert in IDPA in SSP. If I had to do a qualifier now, I'd probably barely make sharpshooter. But that doesn't mean I can't teach.
In fact, I've been complimented when coaching people who are far far more talented than I am.
If you know the fundamentals, and have watched enough people make mistakes, you can instruct people who are better shots than you are.
Nobody is perfect. If you pay attention, you can see areas for improvement with almost anyone.
Being able to articulate that in a clear way is one of the most important parts of being a good instructor.
dcmdon
NES Member
Now that I think of it, some of the best shooters I've met would make terrible instructors.
If you ask them how they do what the do, they say they pull the trigger and go fast.
Some are so talented that they can't really explain how they do what they do.
The guys who have the mental capacity for analysis AND tons of talent are the ones who are typically the very very top of their field, and make great instructors.
Being able to replay a run in your head can allow you to find places where you can go faster or save time.
Its a different game, but back in the 80s Freddie Spencer was having trouble keeping up with Mike Baldwin at the Loudon National during practice. He told everyone to leave him alone for a couple of hours. He went into his motor home and ran lap after lap in his head trying to see where he could shave off time. After two hours in the motor home, he went out and promptly knocked 2 seconds off of his best lap times.
That is the power of the mind. If a person can do that, they can be an excellent instructor.
In contrast, one famous racer from the 80s was asked how he went so fast. He said that he just went faster and faster until he fell down. Then he backed off just a little bit. (say it in an italian accent for full effect)
Don
If you ask them how they do what the do, they say they pull the trigger and go fast.
Some are so talented that they can't really explain how they do what they do.
The guys who have the mental capacity for analysis AND tons of talent are the ones who are typically the very very top of their field, and make great instructors.
Being able to replay a run in your head can allow you to find places where you can go faster or save time.
Its a different game, but back in the 80s Freddie Spencer was having trouble keeping up with Mike Baldwin at the Loudon National during practice. He told everyone to leave him alone for a couple of hours. He went into his motor home and ran lap after lap in his head trying to see where he could shave off time. After two hours in the motor home, he went out and promptly knocked 2 seconds off of his best lap times.
That is the power of the mind. If a person can do that, they can be an excellent instructor.
In contrast, one famous racer from the 80s was asked how he went so fast. He said that he just went faster and faster until he fell down. Then he backed off just a little bit. (say it in an italian accent for full effect)
Don
RockIt
Banned
Couple of years ago I was having a hard time with my 1911. Great big "groups", like the size of a huge dinner plate.
Paid about $80 for an hour of one on one instruction.
Instructor had me shoot a magazine. Then he corrected my grip, explained what and why he was doing it. Instant improvement, huge as a matter of fact. So we had a lot of time leftover, I shot a bit with him watching then offered to let him shoot the 1911. I said "Aw, cmon, I would like to see a really good shooter. . ." He said, nope, he was actually worse than I was. I did see him shoot later, and yup, he was worse.
The point being that if someone knows what is supposed to be done and can see the other person doing it wrong and then get them to do it right, who cares how the heck they shoot? Certainly not me.
BTW, the $80 was totally worth it.
Paid about $80 for an hour of one on one instruction.
Instructor had me shoot a magazine. Then he corrected my grip, explained what and why he was doing it. Instant improvement, huge as a matter of fact. So we had a lot of time leftover, I shot a bit with him watching then offered to let him shoot the 1911. I said "Aw, cmon, I would like to see a really good shooter. . ." He said, nope, he was actually worse than I was. I did see him shoot later, and yup, he was worse.
The point being that if someone knows what is supposed to be done and can see the other person doing it wrong and then get them to do it right, who cares how the heck they shoot? Certainly not me.
BTW, the $80 was totally worth it.
Be sure to bring your earpro, I recently made some tac mods to mine to keep a high speed / low drag coefficient.
Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk
warwickben
bubba Kalashnikov
I get what youre saying but for someone that already has fundementals down, i want anyone trying to teach me something to be able to out shoot me. In order for me to shell out dough anyways.
Different skill set. There are plenty of great shooters that are fat asses. When you can't shoot, you really can only teach those that are worse then you
Ha, at first I thought Boudrie was quoting Jeff Cooper. It sure sounded like the good Col.
I'm looking at WTS threads here and I can't help wondering, what on earth makes you label the rifle/pistol/shotgun you have for sale as "Tactical"? Does that mean you screwed on something and think I should pay twice as much for it? It sure seems so.
Webster's says;
Full Definition of TACTICAL
1
: of or relating to combat tactics: as
a (1) : of or occurring at the battlefront <a tactical defense> <a tactical first strike> (2) : using or being weapons or forces employed at the battlefront <tactical missiles>
b of an air force : of, relating to, or designed for air attack in close support of friendly ground forces
2
a : of or relating to tactics: as (1) : of or relating to small-scale actions serving a larger purpose (2) : made or carried out with only a limited or immediate end in view
b : adroit in planning or maneuvering to accomplish a purpose
I'm looking at WTS threads here and I can't help wondering, what on earth makes you label the rifle/pistol/shotgun you have for sale as "Tactical"? Does that mean you screwed on something and think I should pay twice as much for it? It sure seems so.
Webster's says;
Full Definition of TACTICAL
1
: of or relating to combat tactics: as
a (1) : of or occurring at the battlefront <a tactical defense> <a tactical first strike> (2) : using or being weapons or forces employed at the battlefront <tactical missiles>
b of an air force : of, relating to, or designed for air attack in close support of friendly ground forces
2
a : of or relating to tactics: as (1) : of or relating to small-scale actions serving a larger purpose (2) : made or carried out with only a limited or immediate end in view
b : adroit in planning or maneuvering to accomplish a purpose
You forgot my favorite, Mil-Spec. 99% of stuff sold with this label would never actually be able to pass the testing required for Mil-Spec
RockIt
Banned
Umm, no. Vince Lombardi. Sorry.
warwickben
bubba Kalashnikov
Not true.
Mil-spec pretty easy to pass.
Basically set specs for finish , tolerance and alloy. Only problem is they use it on parts not approved , when people use it when they mean it would fit mill spec lowers etc .
Last edited:
warwickben
bubba Kalashnikov
Wtf is that a powder cap?
Yes and no. My point was a lot of the parts sold as mil-spec are not. buffer tubes are a great example. They differentiate the different sizes by Mil-spec and not.
A friend of mine had an x-ray company that did mil-spec testing and it was quite involved for someone to get the mil-spec part number on a product.
dcmdon
NES Member
NOBODY has fundamentals 100% nailed. We all get lazy.
dcmdon
NES Member
When I first saw that on my dillon flip tray I didn't get it.
The funny thing is its a crappy flip try. Sure it made of steel and everything. (Mine's actually brass, but its the same design)
But the ridges aren't sharp enough.
Don
Cloverleaf Firearms Group
Instructor
I agree... but I think his point (which I agree with) is that at some point in your development as a shooter, you are looking for performance gains. At that point, you need a person who has developed their shooting to a level that they understand those particular issues (personal defense, or competition). I base the courses that I pay for off of that same type of logic. I don't necessarily think that the person has to be better than me, but if they have the knowledge that I'm looking for... they generally are better than me. At least in the context of what I'm paying them to learn.
- Joined
- Oct 9, 2007
- Messages
- 11,135
- Likes
- 1,600
I too am sick of all the regular joes dressing up ll tactical and shit, whether they are at the range or walking around in public. Its hard to put a finger on why its so annoying, maybe its just because every person who does it and thinks it is cool looks like an effing 'tard.
dcmdon
NES Member
I'm struggling with how to say this. I agree in some ways and I disagree in other ways. I think the best way to state this is to use myself as an example.
I used to shoot a lot. I was never at the top of the game, but I made Expert in IDPA SSP. I was also at one point a pretty decent bulls eye shooter.
Since then I've had kids, gotten older and slower and generally not kept my skills anywhere near where they used to be. I am nowhere near as good a shooter now as I used to be.
But . . . I know exactly what I need to do to be as good a shooter as I used to be. So since I am nowhere near as good as I used to be does not mean that I can' coach someone who is operating at the level that I used to operate at. (and beyond in my opinion)
So the fact that I'm not as good as I used to be does not mean that my advice and coaching ceases to be of value at an earlier point in a shooters development.
Don
dcmdon
NES Member
Back on topic. I was at Mass Rifle shooting indoors with my Ruger 10/22 at 25 yards. This gun has tech sights. I was practicing for one of the Mass Rifle club matches where all shots are taken off hand. Next to me was a guy with a DPMS .308 AR with(I'm not kidding)
1) 5-11 pants
2) punisher T shirt
3) tactical belt
4) black cop boots
5) hat on backwards
6) grip pod VFG/ bipod
7) Chinese scope
8) UTG 45 deg sights
9) all his gun bags were tactical looking.
He isn't hitting shit. With the rifle rested he's struggling to keep it all within 3 or 4 inches with his scoped rifle About 10 minutes into this cluster Eff, the scope complete with rings and offset sights pops off his rifle and lands on the floor.
I couldn't take it any longer. I asked if I could help. I still had my inch lb torque wrench with me. I was able to mooch some Loctite (holy crap, my spell checker just changed Loctite to Lactate, but i digress) and we were able to get it on.
I'd have like to lapped the rings, but I figured it was a waste with the Chinese scope. He turned out to be a super nice guy, who was just a bit . . . misguided. I eventually got him to go to an appleseed. That was a disaster in a whole different way. But more on that later
Don
Cloverleaf Firearms Group
Instructor
But... at one point you were at that level, so you have experience to reference. I think you made my point, and we are in more agreement than the internet can translate.
![[grin]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/041.gif "Grin [grin]")
Similar threads
