exempt from MA and US laws

[Jaxon]

I was just wondering what laws the MA police are exempt from that the rest of us are subject to.

Anyone have any of these they could help out with?

AG's rules will also do.

I also know that they are not listed in town/city clerk's listings of residents, nor assessor's records.

Does it really matter?

 

[terraformer]

Here lies the perfect reason to get your idiotic approved gun list removed. If there were any smart lawyers in the state of Ma. they would use the argument "if it is good enough for the police,it should be good enough for the citizens".

 

[Half Cocked]

If there were any smart lawyers in the state of Ma.

There's the rub.......

 

[Scrivener]

Here lies the perfect reason to get your idiotic approved gun list removed. If there were any smart lawyers in the state of Ma. they would use the argument "if it is good enough for the police,it should be good enough for the citizens".

If you actually had a clue, you would know that an entity purporting to represent dealers formed when the AG's edict was issued and DID challenge it in court. It lost at the initial trial and then failed to file its appeal in a timely manner.

That failure left us with the fecal accumulation you now pontificate upon.

 

[terraformer]

If you actually had a clue, you would know that an entity purporting to represent dealers formed when the AG's edict was issued and DID challenge it in court. It lost at the initial trial and then failed to file its appeal in a timely manner.

That failure left us with the fecal accumulation you now pontificate upon.

Swap "smart" in the original statement with "competent" and you just proved his point. One could even argue that competent requires smart.

 

[Scrivener]

Swap "smart" in the original statement with "competent" and you just proved his point. One could even argue that competent requires smart.

DRIVEL. The appeal was not taken because the fabricated dealers' entity failed to authorize and pay for it.

 

[terraformer]

DRIVEL. The appeal was not taken because the fabricated dealers' entity failed to authorize and pay for it.

And said lawyers, knowing the consequences of such an inaction failed to alert other lawyers and interested stakeholders, hereby damning us to never be able to challenge such a law in state court again. From what I understand, this hampers action at the federal level too, now that there are new (more like new old...) grounds by which to do something.

 

[Scrivener]

And said lawyers, knowing the consequences of such an inaction failed to alert other lawyers and interested stakeholders, hereby damning us to never be able to challenge such a law in state court again. From what I understand, this hampers action at the federal level too, now that there are new (more like new old...) grounds by which to do something.

Still advertising your ignorance.....

There are no "stakeholders" and claiming there should have been an "alert to other lawyers" is yet another asinine assertion. Parties - and ONLY the parties - can take appeals. Period.

 

[Coyote33]

OK. Who represents the "parties"?

 

[Len-2A Training]

DRIVEL. The appeal was not taken because the fabricated dealers' entity failed to authorize and pay for it.

And your buddy is the "president" (for life, since the entity ceased to exist) of said "fabricated dealers' entity"!

I don't know who represented them in court, but I don't fault the attorneys . . . they don't work for nothing and shouldn't be expected to "for the greater good".

 

[Scrivener]

And your buddy is the "president" (for life, since the entity ceased to exist) of said "fabricated dealers' entity"!

MORE drivel. The MDA is NOT the collection that brought the lawsuit in question.

Reality - grasp the concept.

 

[Len-2A Training]

MORE drivel. The MDA is NOT the collection that brought the lawsuit in question.

Reality - grasp the concept.

Pardon my drivel glass.

ASSC (IIRC the right initials) was the major proponent of the lawsuit. I was told by GOAL Staff that the MDA was also involved in the suit, but I admit not to have any first-hand knowledge.

 

[Scrivener]

ASSC (IIRC the right initials) was the major proponent of the lawsuit. I was told by GOAL Staff that the MDA was also involved in the suit, but I admit not to have any first-hand knowledge.

The Mass. Assoc. of Firearms Retailers did not even EXIST until Spring, 2002 - which is AFTER the other group shoved its head up its ASSC.

 

[terraformer]

Still advertising your ignorance.....

There are no "stakeholders" and claiming there should have been an "alert to other lawyers" is yet another asinine assertion. Parties - and ONLY the parties - can take appeals. Period.

Well then, other parties should be able to sue again. If I handed you a 100K, would you sue them in state court on behalf of me, and not have it dismissed, who is aggrieved?

 

[ShadeWPI]

I just had a very large post with quotes of Mass General Law with Police Exceptions
http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/mgllink.htm

Unfortunately, the forum didn't like my post and it was lost.

There are a lot of exceptions for police officers, however I could not find an exception to prohibiting the sale of "unsafe weapons" for sales to police officers.

Chapter 140: Section 123. Conditions of licenses

Eighteenth, That no licensee shall sell, rent, lease, transfer or deliver or offer for sale, lease, transfer or delivery any firearm, to any purchaser in the commonwealth unless such sale is to a business entity that is primarily a firearm wholesaler and the sale, by its terms, prohibits the purchaser from reselling such firearm to a firearm retailer or consumer in the commonwealth if such firearm has a frame, barrel, cylinder, slide or breechblock that is composed of: (i) any metal having a melting point of less than 900 degrees Fahrenheit; (ii) any metal having an ultimate tensile strength of less than 55,000 pounds per square inch; or (iii) any powdered metal having a density of less than 7.5 grams per cubic centimeter. This clause shall not apply to any make and model of firearm for which a sample of three firearms in new condition all pass the following test: Each of the three samples shall fire 600 rounds, stopping every 100 rounds to tighten any loose screws and to clean the gun if required by the cleaning schedule in the user manual, and as needed to refill the empty magazine or cylinder to capacity before continuing. For any firearm that is loaded in a manner other than via a detachable magazine, the tester shall also pause every 50 rounds for ten minutes. The ammunition used shall be the type recommended by the firearm manufacturer in its user manual or, if none is recommended, any standard ammunition of the correct caliber in new condition. A firearm shall pass this test if it fires the first 20 rounds without a malfunction, fires the full 600 rounds with not more than six malfunctions and completes the test without any crack or breakage of an operating part of the firearm. The term “crack” or “breakage” shall not include a crack or breakage that does not increase the danger of injury to the user. For purposes of evaluating the results of this test, malfunction shall mean any failure to feed, chamber, fire, extract or eject a round or any failure to accept or eject a magazine or any other failure which prevents the firearm, without manual intervention beyond that needed for routine firing and periodic reloading, from firing the chambered round or moving a new round into position so that the firearm is capable of firing the new round properly. “Malfunction” shall not include a misfire caused by a faulty cartridge the primer of which fails to detonate when properly struck by the firearm’s firing mechanism. Nineteenth, That no licensee shall sell, rent, lease, transfer or deliver or offer for sale, lease, transfer or delivery any firearm to any purchaser in the commonwealth unless such sale is to a business entity that is primarily a firearms wholesaler, and the sale, by its terms, prohibits such purchaser from reselling such firearm to a firearm retailer or consumer in the commonwealth if such firearm is prone to accidental discharge which, for purposes of this clause, shall mean any make and model of firearm for which a sample of five firearms in new condition all undergo, and none discharge during, the following test: Each of the five sample firearms shall be: (a) test loaded; (b) set so that the firearm is in a condition such that pulling the trigger and taking any action that must simultaneously accompany the pulling of the trigger as part of the firing procedure would fire the handgun; and (c) dropped onto a solid slab of concrete from a height of one meter from each of the following positions: (i) normal firing position; (ii) upside down; (iii) on grip; (iv) on the muzzle; (v) on either side; and (vi) on the exposed hammer or striker or, if there is no exposed hammer or striker, the rearmost part of the firearm. If the firearm is designed so that its hammer or striker may be set in other positions, each sample firearm shall be tested as above with the hammer or striker in each such position but otherwise in such condition that pulling the trigger, and taking any action that must simultaneously accompany the pulling of the trigger as part of the firing procedure, would fire the firearm. Alternatively, the tester may use additional sample firearms of the same make and model, in a similar condition, for the test of each of these hammer striker settings. Twentieth, That no licensee shall sell, rent, lease, transfer or deliver or offer for sale, lease, transfer or delivery, any firearm to any purchaser in the commonwealth unless such sale is to a business entity that is primarily a firearm wholesaler, and the sale, by its terms, prohibits the purchaser from reselling such firearm to a firearm retailer or consumer in the commonwealth if such firearm is prone to: (i) firing more than once per pull of the trigger; or (ii) explosion during firing. Twenty-first, That no licensee shall sell, rent, lease, transfer or deliver or offer for sale, lease, transfer or delivery any firearm to any purchaser in the commonwealth unless such sale is to a business entity that is primarily a firearm wholesaler and the sale, by its terms, prohibits the purchaser from reselling such firearm to a firearm retailer or consumer in the commonwealth if such firearm has a barrel less than three inches in length, unless the licensee discloses in writing, prior to the transaction, to the prospective buyer, lessee, deliveree or transferee the limitations of the accuracy of the particular make and model of the subject firearm, by disclosing the make and model’s average group diameter test result at seven yards, average group diameter test result at 14 yards and average group diameter test result at 21 yards. For purposes of this clause, “average group diameter test result” shall mean the arithmetic mean of three separate trials, each performed as follows on a different sample firearm in new condition of the make and model at issue. Each firearm shall fire five rounds at a target from a set distance and the largest spread in inches between the centers of any of the holes made in a test target shall be measured and recorded. This procedure shall be repeated two more times on the firearm. The arithmetic mean of each of the three recorded results shall be deemed the result of the trial for that particular sample firearm. The ammunition used shall be the type recommended by the firearm manufacturer in its user manual or, if none is recommended, any standard ammunition of the correct caliber in new condition. No licensee shall sell any rifle or shotgun, contrary to the provisions of section one hundred and thirty or section 131E.

Clauses Eighteenth to Twenty-first, inclusive, of the first paragraph shall not apply to: (a) any firearm lawfully owned or possessed under a license issued under this chapter on or before October 21, 1998; or (b) any firearm designated by the secretary of public safety, with the advice of the gun control advisory board established pursuant to section 1311/2 of chapter 140, as a firearm solely designed and sold for formal target shooting competition. The secretary of public safety shall compile a list, on a bi-annual basis, of firearms designated as formal target shooting firearms in accordance with this paragraph. Such list shall be made available for distribution by the executive office of public safety.

 

[Kevlar]

...I could not find an exception to prohibiting the sale of "unsafe weapons" for sales to police officers.

I believe it's in 940 CMR 16.00

 

[GSG]

I just had a very large post with quotes of Mass General Law with Police Exceptions
http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/mgllink.htm

Unfortunately, the forum didn't like my post and it was lost.

The forum will automatically log you out in some cases if you sit idle on the same page for too long (typically as you're typing a long, drawn out response). There's a trick to retain your post, though. After you type something long, highlight the post, right click and "copy" the text. Then post...if there's an issue, you can get back to the thread and "paste" the exact same post.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Shade,

There is NO exemption from MGL Ch. 140 S. 123 for LEOs (ordered as individuals, agencies are totally exempt from all restrictions). This was the GCA 1998.

The referenced CMR is the AG Regs, and LEOs ARE exempt from that BS when buying as individuals.

So, the net result is that LEOs can only purchase "safe" guns per MGLs, but can buy "unsafe" guns per the AG Regs.

Confused enough now?

 

[GOAL]

This law allows law enforcement to carry on the job without a license.


Chapter 41: Section 98. Powers and duties


Section 98. The chief and other police officers of all cities and towns shall have all the powers and duties of constables except serving and executing civil process. They shall suppress and prevent all disturbances and disorder. They may carry within the commonwealth such weapons as the chief of police or the board or officer having control of the police in a city or town shall determine; provided, that any law enforcement officer of another state or territory of the United States may, while on official business within the commonwealth, carry such weapons as are authorized by his appointing authority. They may examine all persons abroad whom they have reason to suspect of unlawful design, and may demand of them their business abroad and whither they are going; may disperse any assembly of three or more persons, and may enter any building to suppress a riot or breach of peace therein. Persons so suspected who do not give a satisfactory account of themselves, persons so assembled and who do not disperse when ordered, and persons making, aiding and abetting in a riot or disturbance may be arrested by the police, and may thereafter be safely kept by imprisonment or otherwise unless released in the manner provided by law, and taken before a district court to be examined and prosecuted.

Whoever is arrested and charged with any offense committed during a riot, disturbance or mass demonstration may be fingerprinted, in accordance with the protocol of the identification system of the department of the state police and may be photographed.

If a police officer stops a person for questioning pursuant to this section and reasonably suspects that he is in danger of life or limb, he may search such person for a dangerous weapon. If he finds such weapon or any other thing the possession of which may constitute a crime, he may take and keep it until the completion of the questioning, at which time he shall return it, if lawfully possessed, or he shall arrest such person.

 

[GSG]

The referenced CMR is the AG Regs, and LEOs ARE exempt from that BS when buying as individuals.

So, the net result is that LEOs can only purchase "safe" guns per MGLs, but can buy "unsafe" guns per the AG Regs.

To complicate this further, some FFL's require an officer to get a letter of dept. authorization to buy personal guns off of the AG's list, while others only want an LE ID. The dealers are so scared of the AG that they will often make up their own regs in an attempt to cover themselves, even where the law is clear.

 

[GSG]

It's illegal to carry or possess firearms at Logan Airport unless you're checking in for a flight, but some LEO's are exempt from this.

From 740 CMR 21.11:

21.11 Firearms and Dangerous Weapons

(a) Firearms and Explosives. No person (except federal or state law enforcement officers, officers, Post Office, Customs, express and air carrier employees or members of the Armed Forces of the United States and Massachusetts National Guard on official duty, who are authorized and licensed to carry firearms and explosives) shall carry any firearms or explosives on the airport.

All persons other than those in the excepted classes shall, while on the airport, surrender all such objects in their possession to the Office in Charge of State Police Troop F.

(b) Dangerous Weapons and Prohibited Items. No person (except federal or state law enforcement officers, Post Office, Customs, or members of the Armed Forces of the United States and Massachusetts National Guard on official duty), unless authorized by the Authority, shall carry in a sterile area of the airport a knife or other dangerous weapon or any item or material prohibited by Federal Aviation Regulations (including but not limited to 14 CFR Part 108) or any FAA orders or directives, to be carried upon an aircraft.

(c) An Air Carrier shall prevent the passage beyond its security checkpoint of any dangerous weapon or any item prohibited by FAA regulation, standard, order or directive to be carried on aircraft.

(d) No person shall possess, either on the individual's person or on or in his/her accessible property within a sterile or restricted area of the Airport, a dangerous weapon or an item prohibited by FAA regulations, standard, order or directive to be carried on aircraft.

---

(Penalties are $50 first offense in a 12 month period, $150 second, and $250 third)

But it's important to note that this only exempts federal and state police, not municipal (meaning cities/towns). However, it appears that campus police and hostpial police would be exempt, since they're special state police under MGL 22C-63:

CHAPTER 22C. THE DEPARTMENT OF STATE POLICE


Chapter 22C: Section 63. Employees of colleges, universities, other educational institutions and hospitals; appointment as special officers


Section 63. The colonel may, upon such reasonable terms and conditions as may be prescribed by him, at the request of an officer of a college, university, other educational institution or hospital licensed pursuant to section fifty-one of chapter one hundred and eleven, appoint employees of such college, university, other educational institution or hospital as special state police officers. Such special state police officers shall serve for three years, subject to removal by the colonel, and they shall have the same power to make arrests as regular police officers for any criminal offense committed in or upon lands or structures owned, used or occupied by such college, university, or other institution or hospital.

Each application for appointment as a special state police officer or a renewal thereof shall be accompanied by a fee, the amount of which shall be determined annually by the commissioner of administration under the provision of section three B of chapter seven.

The colonel may promulgate such rules and regulations as may be necessary to ensure proper standards of skill. Said rules and regulations shall conform to the provisions of chapter thirty A.

It also looks like railroad police, Humane Society Police, Port of Boston and all the other type's of SPO's (I'm assuming even Boston Specials) who are Special State Police under MGL 22C-51-63 would be exempt from this CMR.

A few other threads delve into this issue as well.

http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/showthread.php/77719-Logan-airport-and-guns-in-the-trunk?

http://www.northeastshooters.com/vb...p/98137-A-few-questions-if-you-have-the-time?

 

[kencop93]

very interesting

Ken

 

[terraformer]

.

 

[Kevlar]

RE: Silencers

M.G.L. c.269 s.10A

Any person, other than a federally licensed firearms manufacturer, an authorized agent of the municipal police training committee, or a duly authorized sworn law enforcement officer while acting within the scope of official duties and under the direct authorization of the police chief or his designee, or the colonel of the state police, who sells or keeps for sale, or offers, or gives or disposes of by any means other than submitting to an authorized law enforcement agency, or uses or possesses any instrument, attachment, weapon or appliance for causing the firing of any gun, revolver, pistol or other firearm to be silent or intended to lessen or muffle the noise of the firing of any gun, revolver, pistol or other firearm shall be punished by imprisonment for not more than five years in state prison or for not more than two and one-half years in a jail or house of correction. Nothing contained herein shall be construed to prohibit a federally licensed firearms manufacturer from selling such instrument, attachment, weapon or appliance to authorized law enforcement agencies for law enforcement purposes or to the municipal police training committee for law enforcement training. Upon conviction of a violation of this section, the instrument, attachment or other article shall be confiscated by the commonwealth and forwarded, by the authority of the written order of the court, to the colonel of the state police, who shall destroy said article.

 

[Coyote33]

Are they exempt from property taxes ?

No, but their names are taken out of the various listings in town, possibly including voting lists and tax records.


Just saw this today:

eliminating the police exemption for retreating under RSA 627:4.