• If you enjoy the forum please consider supporting it by signing up for a NES Membership  The benefits pay for the membership many times over.

Doctor stabbed by patient at 50 Staniford St., LTC holder saves the day

God, this site is boring - no jokes? Where are the Arbitragers when you need them?

I know two psychiatric nurses: the only women I know who carry all the time. The stories they tell about patients would curl your hair.
 
knuckle dragger said:
I'm sorry if I'm raining on the self-flagellation parade of Mass gun owners, but let's get a grip folks.
Click to expand...

+1.... It was clearly a "good shoot", with a witness (the victim, who was clearly attacked!) to back it up. If they attempted to prosecute this guy for "something" it'd go over like a fart in church, even in MA.

-Mike
 
Negotiator said:
Why? Because she's an MD / Psychiatrist?? Talk about labeling - so you think all "doctors" are liberal gun-hating-anti-second-amendment-rights people?? Sorry to pop your bubble sport, but that was a very biased comment. [frown]
Click to expand...

Thank you for beating me to the punch.


As for this incident and the media, my only thought is that this is at best positive for gun owners and at worst neutral for gun owners.
 
TomH said:
As a NH resident I just laugh at all this argument over laws, and speculation. [laugh]
Click to expand...
Oh, you want NH jokes too? Nooo problem! We have an office there - I can keep you in stitches.

I love how folks run away from MA because of the gun laws. Of course, half of them work here, and then can't get a NR LCF. Running from the sound of a fight is no way to win it. If you were serious about defending the 2nd Amendment you'd move to MA, not away from it.

The primary difference between Southern NH and MA these days is that MA requires Kindergarten....[smile]

OK, now how about some nuthouse jokes or something in similarly bad taste.
 
Palladin said:
I couldn't handle running thru all the comments....did anyone ask.."why didn't he shoot the knife out of his hand?"
Click to expand...

Pretty close to it. Some people were asking why he didn't just shoot him in the legs. Someone actually used the term "knee capping". Then a supposed LTC holder chimed in and supported the idea of shooting to wound (shooting the guys legs).

Now the idea of the day is "why was Mr. Langone ever there in the first place."
 
FreeWillie said:
Menino just got on board and called the boy a hero. He's off the hook for any charges. (And rightly so! It was a good shoot in my opinion)
Click to expand...

Sure sounds like TM is sending a message to the BPD and Suffolk County DA (and I agree with the message).

When I took LFI-1, Ayoob told the story of an old gent somewhere on the west coast (Seattle?) who killed a perp in a defensive shooting. The liberal DA decided to bring the old guy before a grand jury. The police chief was apparently not happy about this. When the victim was due to testify before the grand jury, the chief sent around a black-and-white to give the victim a ride to the grand jury.

The chief put on his dress uniform (you know, the one that looks like a South American general's uniform with ribbons and medals, and the hat with scrambled eggs on the brim). He met the victim outside the grand jury, and walked the old gent in with a hand on his arm. He carefully settled the old man in a chair, gently put his hands on the shoulders of the old man, looked warmly at the jury and nodded his head at them. Then walked out. As you might expect, the grand jury no-billed him and the DA was pissed.
 
FreeWillie said:
Menino just got on board and called the boy a hero. He's off the hook for any charges. (And rightly so! It was a good shoot in my opinion)
Click to expand...

http://www.thebostonchannel.com/news/21452266/detail.html

BOSTON -- A homicide inspector is taking over the investigation into the death of a psychiatric patient who was fatally shot by an off-duty officer after he stabbed his doctor at a Boston office building Tuesday.

MGH Shooter Went Through 'Special Officer' Training

Paul M. Langone, 33, of Reading, shot and killed the patient, Jay Carciero, 37, of Reading, after Carciero stabbed Massachusetts General Hospital psychiatrist Dr. Astrid Desrosiers at a clinic for bipolar treatment and research.

Langone's father, Paul F. Langone, said his son was part of the Boston Special Police force. The Suffolk County District Attorney's Office said Wednesday that part of their investigation "relates to the shooter's apparent employment as a special police officer."

Langone graduated from a Special Police Officer training program in April, according to John DeGutis, of John A DeGutis Jr. Consulting Services. The course is certified through the Boston Police Department Academy.

The 160-hour program included verbal judo, use of deadly force, use of pepper spray, handcuffing, use and defense of edged weapons, firearm safety and prisoner control, DeGutis said.

Participants do not need a permit or a weapon to take part in the program and can use weapons provided at training ranges for the 50 rounds of shooting necessary to complete the program.

Police say Jay Carciero stabbed a doctor before being shot and killed.

DeGutis said people taking part in his program include those who work for security companies and Boston city employees -- such as those who work for inspectional services.

Langone did not work for the hospital. Boston police said many guards in the city are licensed as "special officers," which means they "meet the criteria to work for a security firm in the city and carry a firearm."

Boston Mayor Menino Tom Menino joined others is praising Langone's actions.

"He's a real hero. He saved lives at his own risk, and that's how you tell a quality of an individual and we're here to thank him for what he did yesterday," Menino said.

Desrosiers, 49, described as a "caring and dedicated professional," in an MGH statement, was listed in serious but stable condition Wednesday after she was stabbed at the hospital's Bipolar Clinic and Research Program.

Friends remembered Carciero, a Stoneham High School graduate, as a popular, clean-cut football player whose mother was a middle school Spanish teacher.

He was said to have been working part time after filing an ongoing lawsuit against his former employer, food service giant Sodexo.

Carciero, a married father of four, was shot by Langone, who was in the high-rise office building at 50 Staniford St. on unrelated business and happened on the fifth-floor during the attack, police said.
Click to expand...


Other Menino comment http://wbztv.com/wireapnewsma/Father.says.guard.2.1276082.html
Boston Mayor Thomas Menino praised Langone's actions.

"If this guy didn't have a gun yesterday, probably three or four people would have been murdered," Menino told The Associated Press.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Palladin said:
I couldn't handle running thru all the comments....did anyone ask.."why didn't he shoot the knife out of his hand?"
Click to expand...

Because two shots to the chest and one to the head is so much easier and faster to aim at. Especially if you are point shooting, which is most likely what happened at the distances involved. Not to mention, two shots to the chest and one to the head should stop the threat. If you shoot the knife away, they can pick it up again with a different hand or still rush you and beat you with their other good hand.

The shooter did what he most likely trained to do: Stop the threat as quickly as possible.
 
David Wade (WBZ, formerly an anchor at Fox 25) just reported on this at the top of the hour. And he said something amazingly supportive of the LTC cause. He said something like, "If Langone hadn't used his weapon, he wouldn't have had to answer so many hard questions from the police, the attorney's office, and the media. When it's legally advisable to stand by and do nothing, I think it says something about our society today." Can he get away with editorializing like that? Who cares. I just left a comment for WBZ in support of Wade's commentary.
 
Tom Menino, the co-chair of the Mayors Against Guns Alliance (or whatever it's called) actually said this?!

"He's a real hero. He saved lives at his own risk, and that's how you tell a quality of an individual and we're here to thank him for what he did yesterday," Menino said."

I'm left to wonder what would have happened if Security Guard Langone didn't have the "Security Guard" title though.
 
hospital shooting?

Is the security guard that shot & killed that mental patient yesterday in trouble, as he was not a guard at that hospital?

Bill
 
Evergreen said:
David Wade (WBZ, formerly an anchor at Fox 25) just reported on this at the top of the hour. And he said something amazingly supportive of the LTC cause. He said something like, "If Langone hadn't used his weapon, he wouldn't have had to answer so many hard questions from the police, the attorney's office, and the media. When it's legally advisable to stand by and do nothing, I think it says something about our society today." Can he get away with editorializing like that? Who cares. I just left a comment for WBZ in support of Wade's commentary.
Click to expand...

Dave Wades Blog

Mass. General Hospital has called Paul Langone a hero, and yet – procedure or not – the D.A. will have some questions.

Specifically, was it OK to shoot? Did a "license to carry" also carry the right or responsibility to protect the doctor who was being stabbed by her patient.

Paul Langone had seconds to decide what investigators will have weeks to decide. Shoot or not to shoot. "I think this is an act of selflessness and possibly heroism," said former Boston police officer and current Boston University criminal justice professor Tom Nolan.

He says Langone's status as a special officer means nothing here. It was all about his license to carry.

He is trained with a gun and even though it's not written in black and white, the license allows you to use your judgment. "It authorizes you in situations where you need to intervene to protect someone's life or property to do so," explains Nolan.

And yet, the threat of danger, in this case Jay Carciero allegedly holding a knife, has to hold up to hindsight.

Former prosecutor Jennifer Roman says that's where things get tricky. It is not as clear cut. "Having a license to carry never means you have a license to kill."

And so, the DA investigates.

Roman says if Tuesday's events went down as police think they did, Langone should be free and clear. "Some of the factors the district attorney is going to look into is what was the exact mindset of the man that did the shooting," explains Roman. "Did he actually see a knife? Did he see blood? Did he have cause for concern that a crime actually happened?"

The experts who spoke with WBZ agree that the only way Paul Langone would be free of this line of questioning is if he, despite seeing the blood and knife, had done absolutely nothing.

And that may say a lot about our society, our legal system, or perhaps both
Click to expand...
 
mikem317 said:
Tom Menino, the co-chair of the Mayors Against Guns Alliance (or whatever it's called) actually said this?!

"He's a real hero. He saved lives at his own risk, and that's how you tell a quality of an individual and we're here to thank him for what he did yesterday," Menino said."

I'm left to wonder what would have happened if Security Guard Langone didn't have the "Security Guard" title though.
Click to expand...

This is all political right now. Menino is up for election. He has real contenders. This guy is a win-win for him. Regulated gun ownership. Blessed by the city. This is a win for Menino to back this guy. "See I know what is best for our citizens. We need more regulation so that we prevent the common citizen from hurting themselves and our "special officers" can protect us. We just need a few more regulations to keep the unwashed masses from hurting themselves."
 
Ricky said:
Dave Wades Blog
Click to expand...

Mr. Nolan is full of shit in more ways than one. See below.

Paul Langone had seconds to decide what investigators will have weeks to decide. Shoot or not to shoot. "I think this is an act of selflessness and possibly heroism," said former Boston police officer and current Boston University criminal justice professor Tom Nolan.

He says Langone's status as a special officer means nothing here. It was all about his license to carry.

He is trained with a gun and even though it's not written in black and white, the license allows you to use your judgment. "It authorizes you in situations where you need to intervene to protect someone's life or property to do so," explains Nolan.
Click to expand...

You are not allowed to use force to protect property. Period. Also, although he is right this was based on his LTC legally, the fact that he was a "special" popo is figuring highly in this and as such means A LOT. All over the evening news tonight was bits about the 160 hr training, and how he was a summer popo on the vineyard, etc. I am glad some of the press is reporting accurately, but the reality is quickly diverging from the perception.
 
Thanks, I see it now....loooong.

I was under the impression that hospitals & schools were both places that were illegal to carry? Unless you have specific permission from that hospital?
 
terraformer said:
//Also, although he is right this was based on his LTC legally, the fact that he was a "special" popo is figuring highly in this and as such means A LOT. All over the evening news tonight was bits about the 160 hr training, and how he was a summer popo on the vineyard, etc. I am glad some of the press is reporting accurately, but the reality is quickly diverging from the perception.
Click to expand...
I think he's going to be glad he took every second of that training, as it makes it harder for the antis to get an edge.

You can bet Ms. Coakley won't be spending much time on it: no leverage for her Senatorial campaign.
 
Bill, schools and certain government buildings but nothing prohibiting carry in a hospital. The mayor's calling him a hero so my guess is he's safe!
 

Similar threads

LTC PD Boston 😔
Replies
8
Views
262
M1911
M1911
Bad news LTC holders, can't buy ammo at BassPro
2 3
Replies
66
Views
2K
Dennis in MA
Dennis in MA
Boston Police Officer Shot
Replies
21
Views
696
Dennis in MA
Dennis in MA
Washington school shooting: Students in lockdown at William Wiley Elementary as police rush to the scene
Replies
8
Views
363
CMEBoston
CMEBoston
Parents of man shot, killed by Atlanta police at Buckhead restaurant demand justice
Replies
10
Views
291
Tartakovsky
Tartakovsky
Back
Top Bottom