Doctor stabbed by patient at 50 Staniford St., LTC holder saves the day

[Rob Boudrie]

None of the media have yet identified the technique used as a Mozambique.

 

[Len-2A Training]

None of the media have yet identified the technique used as a Mozambique.

Rob, cut them a break, they couldn't even spell it!

Interesting (linked story above) that his Father says he's not a "security guard" but just one of Boston's Special Police.

I'm reasonably sure about a few things wrt Boston:

- You MUST live in the City to be appointed to anything, unless there are special circumstances (e.g. security guard that works in Boston). I know that even though I have >15 years experience as a Reserve/Special PO plus 10 as a Constable that if I applied to be appointed either in Boston I'd be summarily turned down since I don't live there. I know some Constables that had to sell their suburban homes and move back into the City to keep their appointments when they were "caught" not living in the City (they used relatives' Boston addresses to get their appointments before getting caught).

- "Special Police" status that is granted to someone who works for a particular business is RESTRICTED solely to that business and while the person is working there. At no other time does that person have any police powers in Boston.

- BPD and Mumbles would not look kindly on some random Special PO "just carrying a gun" unless they were working at that job or on the way to/from it.

- I've not been aware of any "Boston Special Police Dept", such as the one I was part of in a suburban town. Also having been a member of two police associations for ~30 yrs each we had lots of members from Boston PD, but none that were Boston Special POs.

- At one time Boston Constables had badges that looked a lot like suburban PD badges. After the newspaper stories a few years ago, they have now issued Constable badges that look like NYPD badges, had them sign some BS that they can't carry a gun on the job or even cuffs unless going thru some unspecified (and I am told not even available yet) training . . . even though they can and do make arrests!

- Of course since the alleged security guard's name is "Langone", there was a very well known Boston City Councilor and funeral home owner by that name. If he's Family, all bets are off on how this gentleman might have been credentialed.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

BPD and Mumbles would not look kindly on some random Special PO "just carrying a gun" unless they were working at that job or on the way to/from it.

True, but the LTC is issued by the chief in the individual's town, not the Boston PD.

I believe that the private security officers hired to do uniformed patrol of some Boston public housing projects are certified as "Boston special police".

Those "special police" don't have a really great deal - lower pay; fewer benefits; no public pension; private, rather than public sector, discipline and termination process, etc. Having "Boston Special Police" status means that one has a risky job with less pay, benefits and backup than "non-special police"; not that you are politically connected.

 

[terraformer]

- Of course since the alleged security guard's name is "Langone", there was a very well known Boston City Councilor and funeral home owner by that name. If he's Family, all bets are off on how this gentleman might have been credentialed.

This has my vote!

 

[BostonFJ40]

True, but the LTC is issued by the chief in the individual's town, not the Boston PD.

I believe that the private security officers hired to do uniformed patrol of some Boston public housing projects are certified as "Boston special police".

Those "special police" don't have a really great deal - lower pay; fewer benefits; no public pension; private, rather than public sector, discipline and termination process, etc.

Are you referring to the former "Boston Municipal Police"?

 

[Zarathustra11]

For those following this, more details can be found in this article from Boston.com.

Some excerpts:

"The son, Paul M. Langone, is a Boston special officer, a designation given to trained security guards who are authorized to carry firearms and make arrests."

"...Authorities have not yet officially released the name of the security guard, but a law enforcement official confirmed that it was Paul M. Langone. The father took issue with the description of his son as a security guard, saying he was a well-trained first responder who provided security on properties in Boston."

"We are going to investigate this case as if it was a police officer involved shooting," said Suffolk District Attorney Daniel F. Conley. "That's going to take some time."

 

[JonJ]

Langone, huh? Anyone remember Freddie Langone? Wonder if they're related.

 

[Ricky]

Boston Special Police

What is a Boston Special Officer ?

City of Boston rules : http://www.cityofboston.gov/police/pdfs/rule400.pdf ( PDF )

Special officer Paul Langone killed a man who was attacking a doctor at a Massachusetts General Hospital office building Tuesday.

He's not a police officer, so what is a special officer?

He's a licensed security guard.

Special officers in the city of Boston are issued a license and badge, but they are not employed by the city.

Anyone who wants to be licensed as a special officer must pass a course of instruction including a written test approved by the police commissioner.

They are trained at the department's firing range on the use of deadly force, which the law allows them to use. But, only to the degree required to overcome what the department describes as "unlawful resistance."

That regulation applies whether the officers are using firearms or not.


ps: I'm not sure if Paul Langone really is such an officer, or is the media just trying to spin him into one.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Are you referring to the former "Boston Municipal Police"?

Nope, to a private company that rented security guards to Boston housing projects. I met one of their people at a match and he described the arrangement - sounds like real police danger, but light on the pay/benefits.

 

[TomH]

Herald Pulse
Which is more terrifying: A psych patient with a knife or an armed off-duty security guard?

67% - The psych patient with a knife, you can’t know his motivation

6% - The off-duty guard. Does he have the right training?

21% - Neither, the doctor is lucky the guard didn’t hesitate

5% - The real question is how many others are packing?

What I'm getting from this is that 11% of the population are complete idiots? (Actually I was expecting higher!)

 

[beaker07]

The same people crying about the poor "victim" who ended up shot (how dare we not try to analyze why he was stabbing someone and talk it out!) would be out for blood if it was their mother/wife. Pathetic. Our society loves to pity the offenders instead of being glad that someone had the intestinal fortitude to handle the situation in the way that most benefits everyone.

 

[billmelater]

No. But he, the doctor and MGH will all be sued.

Bostonchannel.com has a statement from the shooter's father. Here is a link to the full report and an excerpt from it:
http://www.thebostonchannel.com/news/21447085/detail.html

That Bostonchannel article referenced by yanici has a link to another article about a lawsuit that Carciero and his brother are already into.
"He was said to have been working part time after filing an ongoing lawsuit against his former employer, food service giant Sodexo."
It seems the Carciero brothers (possibly some confusion in the article as to where each of them lives) are sueing Sodexo, the food service company that supplies......hospitals.....over being fired for exposing alleged kickbacks.

"Jay Carciero, 35, a stocky, intense man, lives with his wife and three children in a small American-flag-flying blue clapboard home in Woburn, Mass. His soft-spoken brother John, 37, divorced with one child, lives a few miles away in Reading, in a white clapboard A-frame.

"The brothers worked for Sodexo for years: Jay as Sodexo’s manager of food and facilities for the Lahey Clinic hospital, Peabody, Mass., and John at Massachusetts’ Melrose-Wakefield Hospital, and then at Lowell General Hospital.

"In 2005, they sounded alarms about Sodexo demanding kickbacks. Both were eventually fired.

"In April 2005, John filed a complaint with a business abuse hotline Sodexo set up to comply with the Sarbanes-Oxley Act. He said the company was using “strong-arm techniques” to get rebates from vendors.

"Sodexo attorney Tom Morse claims that John Carciero is a disgruntled employee who filed his complaint only after Sodexo began an investigation of Jay for expense-account irregularities (about which Morse declined to supply details).

"The explanation lacks credibility because, months later, in January 2006, Jay was proposed by a supervisor for manager of the year. More importantly, the Carcieros supplied In These Times with stacks of internal Sodexo documents that bolster their claims."

 

[Pyano]

- Of course since the alleged security guard's name is "Langone", there was a very well known Boston City Councilor and funeral home owner by that name. If he's Family, all bets are off on how this gentleman might have been credentialed.

Bingo-we have a winner!

 

[Cato]

I'll bet anyone a cup of coffee that the doctor/victim is a liberal anti gun type.

 

[M1911]

I'll bet anyone a cup of coffee that the doctor/victim is a liberal anti gun type.

Hard to say. I know a social worker who works with victims of sexual abuse. She lives in Newton. But she's an Army brat and not an anti-gun liberal.

 

[Larry Legend]

Because this guy was "off duty", am I correct in assuming that the statues of being a "special officer" did not apply to him?

If so, I REALLY wish more people would understand that he was simply a CIVILIAN with an LTC.


Boy, there would be a lot of knotted up panties if that little tid bit ever gets out.

 

[Negotiator]

None of the media have yet identified the technique used as a Mozambique.

Well, one media report did say two to the body and one in the mouth...

 

[Negotiator]

This has my vote!

+1

 

[Negotiator]

I'll bet anyone a cup of coffee that the doctor/victim is a liberal anti gun type.

Why? Because she's an MD / Psychiatrist?? Talk about labeling - so you think all "doctors" are liberal gun-hating-anti-second-amendment-rights people?? Sorry to pop your bubble sport, but that was a very biased comment.

 

[Bob P]

Some morong claiming to be an LTC-A holder going by Boston929 just posted in the Glob article (police involved shooting one) that there was no need to kill the knife-wielding psycho and that the kid should have 'shot to incapacitate'

I can't post comments to the Globe from work. Could SOMEONE please go on there and pour the scorn on that moron that he deserves?

Thank you.

 

[Knuckle Dragger]

The comments on the Herald's website are priceless. This is my favorite:

I applaud the shooter and think he is very hot!

 

[BostonFJ40]

I keep thinking about "what ifs"...

What if Paul Langone hadn't gone into Dr. Desrosier's office and stopped this mentally unstable individual, but instead just sat there. This guy could have come out and started attacking people in the waiting room or the hallway or people outside. There could have been a lot more damage done if this guy hadn't been stopped.

 

[machocheese]

I'll bet anyone a cup of coffee that the doctor/victim is a liberal anti gun type.

Hard to say. I know a social worker who works with victims of sexual abuse. She lives in Newton. But she's an Army brat and not an anti-gun liberal.

Yeah, not everyone is completely black and white when it comes to their personal/ political beliefs. My mother is a sixties era feminist social worker who still works for next to no pay at a homeless shelter in downtown Brockton. She hates Obama, but was all giddy when Hillary was running. She would never dream of carrying a gun, but has no problem with the fact that I choose to. She even bought me one for Christmas last year and had fun shooting it (first time in her life) at the range.

As for the Doctor, whatever her beliefs, I hope she makes a full recovery and that the man who saved her life comes out on the other end of this without having his life destroyed.

 

[News Shooter]

Let's put it this way. If she was anti yesterday, she probably isn't today

 

[Len-2A Training]

Why? Because she's an MD / Psychiatrist?? Talk about labeling - so you think all "doctors" are liberal gun-hating-anti-second-amendment-rights people?? Sorry to pop your bubble sport, but that was a very biased comment.

Indeed!!

There is a Dentist and Chiropractor that are active members of BR&P. My oral surgeon grew up with guns and hunts, along with his partners. Last trip there he asked me "are you packing" with a smile . . . my response was "it's Brockton, what do you think" then we both laughed. We always have good conversations wrt MA gun laws, etc.

The Endodontist that we use had MPA sticker on his truck so I asked him about it. One of his Sons is a Fed LEO and the other one is a PO at a Metro-West PD. He's had his LTC for >30 years, originally from Boston!! When ammo was plentiful, he told me that he'd go out with his two Sons to shoot silhouettes. I invited him to contact me to join me as my guest at MF&G (and bring his Sons too if they want).

In the old days of the MAF List, there was a BWH or MGH MD on that list.

Just like not all LTC holders are yahoos, not all people in the medical profession have drunk the anti-gun Kool-Aid.

 

[Len-2A Training]

I just hope that Paul Langone hires someone like Atty Kevin Reddington to represent him. Otherwise it might not go down so nicely for him with the Suffolk DA!!

 

[FreeWillie]

Langone gets charged because of "excessive force" (it's going to get political). The anti's (Menino and company rejoice and reassure everyone that I'm getting guns off the street - it is an election year and he has challengers). Langone pleads down and his license is revoked, he gets probation. So is the way of Assachusetts.

BTW, I work with a psychiatrist that carries. My wife is an RN and she carries, so they are not all clueless. One brush with someone that is unstable and it changes their minds real fast. So the comment about Docs being anti is way off base.

 

[Garys]

The building also hosts a huge dermatology clinic on several floors.

I think there's ortho there too. So, there are a lot of reasons he might be there.

 

[seanc]

I would bet that if the spin of him being some sort of LEO, special agent, specially trained and licensenced sercurity type hold up he will not be charged, criminally.

I think if he were to come out and say , I am just an average guy with an LTC, he will be charged.

The flip side of this is how much will his life be turned around for doing the right thing?
How many days of work will he miss repeating his version of the story?
Could his boss get pissed with the interruptions and him being now too high profile, and lay him off?
How much will lawyers cost for him to avoid prosecution?
How long will he need to dodge the press in his yard and on the phone looking for interviews and comments?

Then the real shtf. What happens when the "victims" relatives sue him? How much is THAT going to cost him?

All this on top of the fact that even justified, he took another's life away?
Dealing with all the above as well as the personal emotional stress he must be going through.

I feel truely sorry for this guy.

 

[Knuckle Dragger]

I think if he were to come out and say , I am just an average guy with an LTC, he will be charged.

Charged with what? Unless he walked up to the guy and put an extra bullet in his head in front of witnesses he didn't do anything wrong. (or illegal for that matter) His actions appear to be entirely lawful.

Let's knock this off. We have many, many examples of people using deadly force appropriately and being just fine. We don't have many (if any) of these mythical cases where people are persecuted for acting entirely lawfully.

I'm sorry if I'm raining on the self-flagellation parade of Mass gun owners, but let's get a grip folks.

The media reported on his security guard status because it's an easy explanation of what he was doing with a gun. If the incident involved any of the many instructors on this forum it would have been reported as "a civilian firearms instructor". That sounds pretty legitimate.