Doctor stabbed by patient at 50 Staniford St., LTC holder saves the day

[M1911]

You can bet Ms. Coakley won't be spending much time on it: no leverage for her Senatorial campaign.

The decision on whether to press charges or not will fall to the Suffolk County DA, Daniel Conley. This is not the sort of thing that Martha, the Attorney General, has jurisdiction over. Back when she was a DA, she was the Middlesex County DA, so this wasn't her beat back then either.

 

[economist]

And so, the DA investigates.

Roman says if Tuesday's events went down as police think they did, Langone should be free and clear. "Some of the factors the district attorney is going to look into is what was the exact mindset of the man that did the shooting," explains Roman. "Did he actually see a knife? Did he see blood? Did he have cause for concern that a crime actually happened?"

The experts who spoke with WBZ agree that the only way Paul Langone would be free of this line of questioning is if he, despite seeing the blood and knife, had done absolutely nothing.

And that may say a lot about our society, our legal system, or perhaps both.

This is unavoidable. Absent some awful "good Samaritan" law, the cost of doing nothing is always zero. And the cost of doing something is always, at best, zero. So acting can only hurt you. That is up against your own moral view of the world. Walk away as someone is hacked to death, or step up, act, and get the full bureaucratic review where the outcomes are all bad, excepting the one where you are cleared.

 

[BillB]

Bill, schools and certain government buildings but nothing prohibiting carry in a hospital. The mayor's calling him a hero so my guess is he's safe!

Well that's a relief!

So it's schools (if you don't have permission), government buildings & certain property (Cape Cod Canal etc.)?
How about the state buildings....court rooms etc.?

I am really not up on this?

 

[M1911]

I was under the impression that hospitals & schools were both places that were illegal to carry? Unless you have specific permission from that hospital?

The statute in question is MGL Chapter 269 Section 10J, which prohibits carry in schools without written permission:

(j) Whoever, not being a law enforcement officer, and notwithstanding any license obtained by him under the provisions of chapter one hundred and forty, carries on his person a firearm as hereinafter defined, loaded or unloaded or other dangerous weapon in any building or on the grounds of any elementary or secondary school, college or university without the written authorization of the board or officer in charge of such elementary or secondary school, college or university shall be punished by a fine of not more than one thousand dollars or by imprisonment for not more than one year, or both. For the purpose of this paragraph, “firearm” shall mean any pistol, revolver, rifle or smoothbore arm from which a shot, bullet or pellet can be discharged by whatever means.

full text here: http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/269-10.htm

There's nothing in there that prohibits carry in a hospital. The definition of a school is something of a concern, and some folks here (namely me) worry about the fact that places like MGH are teaching hospitals. Might a judge consider them to be a school? Others say I'm worrying about nothing.

IANAL and this isn't legal advice.

 

[RKG]

The decision on whether to press charges or not will fall to the Suffolk County DA, Daniel Conley. This is not the sort of thing that Martha, the Attorney General, has jurisdiction over. Back when she was a DA, she was the Middlesex County DA, so this wasn't her beat back then either.

Technically, the Attorney General may supercede any criminal prosecution (or investigation) in the Commonwealth, so she has "jurisdiction." I agree there is zero probability that she would exercise that jurisdiction here.

 

[RKG]

This is unavoidable. Absent some awful "good Samaritan" law, the cost of doing nothing is always zero. And the cost of doing something is always, at best, zero. So acting can only hurt you. That is up against your own moral view of the world. Walk away as someone is hacked to death, or step up, act, and get the full bureaucratic review where the outcomes are all bad, excepting the one where you are cleared.

Spot on.

 

[wolfhook]

http://www.capecodonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20091028/NEWS11/910289971

 

[Evergreen]

Mr. Nolan is full of shit in more ways than one. You are not allowed to use force to protect property. Period.

I just wrote a respectful email to Dr. Nolan to see if this is what he meant. It's possible he was misquoted. But if not, hopefully he'll think twice before making this claim again.

 

[soloman02]

This is unavoidable. Absent some awful "good Samaritan" law, the cost of doing nothing is always zero. And the cost of doing something is always, at best, zero. So acting can only hurt you. That is up against your own moral view of the world. Walk away as someone is hacked to death, or step up, act, and get the full bureaucratic review where the outcomes are all bad, excepting the one where you are cleared.

I am fairly certain that if you stand there watching someone being stabbed to death and at the same time have the ABILITY to stop the murder, you are just as guilty as the guy using the knife and will be charged.

 

[Boston_Shooter]

goes to show you...if you hear/see someone being attacked/raped/stabbed/mugged/etc....and you can help.... DON'T

 

[M1911]

I am fairly certain that if you stand there watching someone being stabbed to death and at the same time have the ABILITY to stop the murder, you are just as guilty as the guy using the knife and will be charged.

No, actually. You have no duty to intervene. Not in any state in the union. You could not be charged with anything.

 

[M1911]

Technically, the Attorney General may supercede any criminal prosecution (or investigation) in the Commonwealth, so she has "jurisdiction." I agree there is zero probability that she would exercise that jurisdiction here.

Thanks for the correction.

 

[richc]

This discussion is about criminal charges related to carrying in a hospital. Although I doubt it would happen, even here in MA, he could face criminal charges for the shooting. We do have the right to use a firearm to protect our lives or the lives of others.

Having said all of that there is no telling if he will face a civil lawsuit. We all doubt a civil suit would hold up against him, but sometimes families want or need to blame someone and will pursue civil action to defend the honor of the deceased perpetrator.

 

[Knuckle Dragger]

goes to show you...if you hear/see someone being attacked/raped/stabbed/mugged/etc....and you can help.... DON'T

Are you on crack? Nothing 'goes to shows you' that.

This thread is full of mindless speculation about how badly things are going to go for Mr. Langone. None if has proven out - yet. He might still have to worry about about a wrongful death suit, and I'm sure the attention will probalby make him mental. But, he has not been drawn, quarter, or crucified. And it's unlikely that he will be.

If anything, the fact as they are currently known in this case, support the idea of helping.

sniff, sniff, I think I smell something burning. Must be a martyr.

 

[Knuckle Dragger]

No, actually. You have no duty to intervene. Not in any state in the union. You could not be charged with anything.

yeah, but could you look at yourself in the mirror after wards?

 

[Boston_Shooter]

Well, I'm no "special officer" with extensive "training" on duty or off duty... It seems that his only salvation is playing the "off duty security" thing, that's ALL...I'm just a measly civilian...and I'm not sure I'd be willing to risk my freedom/assets/sanity for a stranger's life, when my wife and kids depend on me.... Maybe I am on crack...

 

[Knuckle Dragger]

Well, I'm no "special officer" with extensive "training" on duty or off duty... It seems that his only salvation is playing the "off duty security" thing, that's ALL...I'm just a measly civilian...and I'm not sure I'd be willing to risk my freedom/assets/sanity for a stranger's life, when my wife and kids depend on me.... Maybe I am on crack...

Well, we won't know until the exact same things happens and a non-special Bopo shoots someone. I wouldn't assume that the only reason Mr. Langone is not in jail is because he's a glorified security guard. I'm very confident that anyone else acting in a similar capacity would be cleared. Let's stop with the hysteria, the sky is NOT falling in.

 

[M1911]

yeah, but could you look at yourself in the mirror after wards?

That's an entirely different question. Legally you have no duty to intervene and you will face no legal sanction if you do not intervene.

 

[Boston_Shooter]

Well, we won't know until the exact same things happens and a non-special Bopo shoots someone. I wouldn't assume that the only reason Mr. Langone is not in jail is because he's a glorified security guard. I'm very confident that anyone else acting in a similar capacity would be cleared. Let's stop with the hysteria, the sky is NOT falling in.

I don't know, let's see how this plays out. The thing that bothers me about almost all references to this situation, is that him being a Security Guard of some kind is a very important factor. Which makes me wonder, how much of a "hero" would some Schmo like you or me be considered?

"A self employed Resaurant owner, who just happened to be carrying a gun to his appointment shot the suspect" doesn't have the same ring to it.

 

[JoeT]

Guys,

I'm going to open a business and I would like to put all of you on my payroll as security. Pay is $0.01 annually. That way we can all have the "security officer" title just in case

Oh, I'll need to be on someones payroll also

 

[Knuckle Dragger]

I don't know, let's see how this plays out. The thing that bothers me about almost all references to this situation, is that him being a Security Guard of some kind is a very important factor. Which makes me wonder, how much of a "hero" would some Schmo like you or me be considered?

"A self employed Restaurant owner, who just happened to be carrying a gun to his appointment shot the suspect" doesn't have the same ring to it.

It doesn't have the same ring, and if it were you in the EXACT same circumstance that might be good. Legally the result would probalby be the same, but you'd get a lot less attention.

 

[vellnueve]

You are not allowed to use force to protect property. Period. Also, although he is right this was based on his LTC legally, the fact that he was a "special" popo is figuring highly in this and as such means A LOT. All over the evening news tonight was bits about the 160 hr training, and how he was a summer popo on the vineyard, etc. I am glad some of the press is reporting accurately, but the reality is quickly diverging from the perception.

#1, you can use force to protect property. In MA, lethal force isn't legally justified, but you can certainly use force.

#2, Texas has it right when they allow the use of potentially lethal force to protect property. They're not the only state where this will fly by a long shot.

 

[drgrant]

Guys,

I'm going to open a business and I would like to put all of you on my payroll as security. Pay is $0.01 annually. That way we can all have the "security officer" title just in case

Oh, I'll need to be on someones payroll also

I still like the idea of the "Jablome Security" uniform for open carry.

-Mike

 

[TomH]

Oh, you want NH jokes too? Nooo problem! We have an office there - I can keep you in stitches.

I love how folks run away from MA because of the gun laws. Of course, half of them work here, and then can't get a NR LCF. Running from the sound of a fight is no way to win it. If you were serious about defending the 2nd Amendment you'd move to MA, not away from it.

The primary difference between Southern NH and MA these days is that MA requires Kindergarten....

OK, now how about some nuthouse jokes or something in similarly bad taste.

I didn't leave because of gun laws. There is a lengthy list of good reasons to move, but I'm sure that's been covered elsewhere. I'm not interested in "winning" in MA. The majority simply has an anti-freedom and left leaning mentality.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Even if everything pans out good for Paul Langone, he'll still likely be out 5-figures in legal expenses, not to mention likely out of a job due to all the time he'll have to take off to attend hearings, depositions, etc.

It certainly will be anything but win-win for him and his Family!!

 

[Half Cocked]

Langone had worked the past couple of summers as a summer officer on the cape I beleive.

 

[Cmaro21]

Nope what did he say?

He had a few good things to say. He went on about the 2A and how it's a farce that we have to get a license for something that we are obligated in the 2A. Pretty good points, hopefully opened some peoples minds to the validity of LTC. The point of his conversion was that the person (at the time it was not known that he was a cop of some sort) but just an individual with an LTC. I think the term he used was "ice cream salesman" saved the doctors life and potentially more, he was thankful that the person was armed at that time. He then went on to day how it's unfortunate in this state that he will probably have to endure a long legal battle, probably not from the state but from the estate brought upon by some ambulance chasing attorney.

I sure hope we get some more momentum on H2259....

 

[drgrant]

Even if everything pans out good for Paul Langone, he'll still likely be out 5-figures in legal expenses, not to mention likely out of a job due to all the time he'll have to take off to attend hearings, depositions, etc.

It certainly will be anything but win-win for him and his Family!!

Biggest thing he has to worry about, IMHO, is the family of the lunatic trying to sue him..... The criminal law end of it probably won't be too tough unless the DA is a complete and utter douchebag. What are they going to do, put him in front of a grand jury? Then again this being MA.....


-Mike

 

[mikem317]

#1, you can use force to protect property. In MA, lethal force isn't legally justified, but you can certainly use force.

#2, Texas has it right when they allow the use of potentially lethal force to protect property. They're not the only state where this will fly by a long shot.

Your first point is not accurate. You can use lethal force for the defense of self in Massachusetts.

 

[mikem317]

Even if everything pans out good for Paul Langone, he'll still likely be out 5-figures in legal expenses, not to mention likely out of a job due to all the time he'll have to take off to attend hearings, depositions, etc.

It certainly will be anything but win-win for him and his Family!!

Biggest thing he has to worry about, IMHO, is the family of the lunatic trying to sue him..... The criminal law end of it probably won't be too tough unless the DA is a complete and utter douchebag. What are they going to do, put him in front of a grand jury? Then again this being MA.....


-Mike

I'll pledge at least $100 to his defense fund.